The Oculus Rift vs 3D Vision 2
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Hello all, The Oculus Rift [url]http://www.oculusvr.com/[/url] has got to be one of the coolest things I have heard of lately. Combining stereoscopic vision with a head-mounted display seems like it would be the most immersive way to play a game. But with every piece of new hardware, the list of software issues will be pretty long. Although this hardware could someday replace my 3D Vision equipment, I am thinking that day is quite a ways off. I think the biggest hurdle for the Oculus Rift will be game compatibility. I heard someone say "it feels like I have a gun on the end of my nose" when they got done playing the Doom BFG game on the Rift. Due to the fact you can't move your head separately from your gun and body will cut down on the immersiveness greatly. Until FPS's are made with the head movement of the Rift in mind, I don't think the experience will be quite as good as it could be. The perfect implementation in a FPS game would allow the head to move freely away from the crosshairs of the weapon until the player decides to look down the sites or through the scope. Another downside to the Rift is the resolution of the screen. Right now it is a 1200x800 720p, although they have hinted the consumer version will be higher res. In my case, I would need a 1080p resolution to consider purchasing the equipment. Coming from a 30inch hi def @ 2560x1600 it was hard for me to go back down to the 1920x1080 just for 3D. Once your eyes get used to a high resolution, lower resolutions aren't near as crisp and clean. Where the Rift will shine will be driving/flying games with cockpit views. Looking around your cockpit and being able to look out your windows at enemies and obstacles will be more than worth switching to the Rift and could give you an instant edge over your competition. The fact that games like Hawken and Star Citizen are already looking at Rift compatibility has really got me thinking about this technology and how it will impact the PC gaming world. If games are developed with the Rift in mind, it could really be the next step in PC gaming. So PC gamers, what are your thoughts on this technology?
Hello all,

The Oculus Rift http://www.oculusvr.com/ has got to be one of the coolest things I have heard of lately. Combining stereoscopic vision with a head-mounted display seems like it would be the most immersive way to play a game. But with every piece of new hardware, the list of software issues will be pretty long. Although this hardware could someday replace my 3D Vision equipment, I am thinking that day is quite a ways off.

I think the biggest hurdle for the Oculus Rift will be game compatibility. I heard someone say "it feels like I have a gun on the end of my nose" when they got done playing the Doom BFG game on the Rift. Due to the fact you can't move your head separately from your gun and body will cut down on the immersiveness greatly. Until FPS's are made with the head movement of the Rift in mind, I don't think the experience will be quite as good as it could be. The perfect implementation in a FPS game would allow the head to move freely away from the crosshairs of the weapon until the player decides to look down the sites or through the scope.

Another downside to the Rift is the resolution of the screen. Right now it is a 1200x800 720p, although they have hinted the consumer version will be higher res. In my case, I would need a 1080p resolution to consider purchasing the equipment. Coming from a 30inch hi def @ 2560x1600 it was hard for me to go back down to the 1920x1080 just for 3D. Once your eyes get used to a high resolution, lower resolutions aren't near as crisp and clean.

Where the Rift will shine will be driving/flying games with cockpit views. Looking around your cockpit and being able to look out your windows at enemies and obstacles will be more than worth switching to the Rift and could give you an instant edge over your competition. The fact that games like Hawken and Star Citizen are already looking at Rift compatibility has really got me thinking about this technology and how it will impact the PC gaming world. If games are developed with the Rift in mind, it could really be the next step in PC gaming.

So PC gamers, what are your thoughts on this technology?

ASUS VG278H - i5 2500k @3.7 GHz - EVGA GeForce Titan SC Edition - 16GB Corsair Vengeance PC 1600 RAM - 500 GB WD Velociraptor - Win 7 64-bit Pro

#1
Posted 12/04/2012 08:59 PM   
I think the best time to ask this question is a year from now. The Oculus Rift consumer version does not at this point have a release date and the specifications are unknown. The dev version of Oculus Rift can't really be recommended and will not materialize yet for some time. With that said I believe that proper game support will be fairly limited but like Track IR it will probably be within these supported games the value will come. Oculus Rift needs some good games but will offer good value even with a fairly limited library.
I think the best time to ask this question is a year from now.

The Oculus Rift consumer version does not at this point have a release date and the specifications are unknown. The dev version of Oculus Rift can't really be recommended and will not materialize yet for some time.

With that said I believe that proper game support will be fairly limited but like Track IR it will probably be within these supported games the value will come. Oculus Rift needs some good games but will offer good value even with a fairly limited library.

#2
Posted 12/04/2012 09:32 PM   
I will buy it even if only a few games support it, it's a dream device for any hardcore gamer. I'll gladly lose some resolution and gain full immersion with huge field view and 1:1 headtracking anytime, the ultimate frontier as a gamer is to be "in the game" as this is the closest thing, far more than any TV or monitor imho. Besides I'm sure there will be a very active community supporting it, the kickstarter proved the interest is there, and hopefully an Oculus Helix will come and do for the device what Helix has done for 3d vision.
I will buy it even if only a few games support it, it's a dream device for any hardcore gamer. I'll gladly lose some resolution and gain full immersion with huge field view and 1:1 headtracking anytime, the ultimate frontier as a gamer is to be "in the game" as this is the closest thing, far more than any TV or monitor imho.

Besides I'm sure there will be a very active community supporting it, the kickstarter proved the interest is there, and hopefully an Oculus Helix will come and do for the device what Helix has done for 3d vision.

All hail Helix, 3d god among us! You can find him at http://helixmod.blogspot.com/
You can visit my virtual reality and 3d blog site at http://www.entraeneljuego.com for the latest news and reviews (in spanish)

#3
Posted 12/04/2012 09:41 PM   
At this point in time I believe some people is overly exited about a dev kit arriving in April which only supports 1 game and is useless in all other type of applications. No 3D Photos or 3D movies. The situation for people like me who wears glasses does not seem to be resolved either yet. As far as I can read the system will only support games that implement support natively to give the optimal VR result. It could never replace 3D Vision for these reasons and I can't get exited about it before I know if I will be able to physically use it at all (re glasses and eyesight).
At this point in time I believe some people is overly exited about a dev kit arriving in April which only supports 1 game and is useless in all other type of applications. No 3D Photos or 3D movies.

The situation for people like me who wears glasses does not seem to be resolved either yet.

As far as I can read the system will only support games that implement support natively to give the optimal VR result.

It could never replace 3D Vision for these reasons and I can't get exited about it before I know if I will be able to physically use it at all (re glasses and eyesight).

#4
Posted 12/04/2012 10:25 PM   
Thanks for the replies guys. Flugan, waiting to discuss this for another year is not possible for me. We have videos of people using it, specs, as well as a couple games already supporting it. You would have to take away my PC's to get me to not post about it (even then I would just use my phone lol)! If you want to wait to discuss it for another year, be my guest (oh but you posted in my thread, too late hahaha). The dev units go out in March, and that isn't far off. Birthright, I hear you about the resolution. I am a hard core gamer myself, and would probably still break down and get the Rift if it was 720p. You must understand it would pain me to restrict my graphics cards like that though. When I am shelling out over $1000 on graphics cards to make my 3DVision setup run perfectly, it seems really stupid to put training wheels back on and run it at such a low resolution. Luckily this market has pretty much made 1080p the standard, so the chances of the consumer version being 1080p are really really good (they have already hinted that they are making the consumer version higher res). And regarding the community, you are totally right. I witnessed how awesome the community is over these last couple years dealing with 3D Vision and 3D Vision Surround. I had surround right when the driver was released, and have gotten many fixes from the community to get games working. When we are talking about an affordable virtual reality setup, I am sure we will have a great community backing it up. More than anything I am hoping nVidia takes notice of this technology and either helps it along or at least supports it.
Thanks for the replies guys.

Flugan, waiting to discuss this for another year is not possible for me. We have videos of people using it, specs, as well as a couple games already supporting it. You would have to take away my PC's to get me to not post about it (even then I would just use my phone lol)! If you want to wait to discuss it for another year, be my guest (oh but you posted in my thread, too late hahaha). The dev units go out in March, and that isn't far off.

Birthright, I hear you about the resolution. I am a hard core gamer myself, and would probably still break down and get the Rift if it was 720p. You must understand it would pain me to restrict my graphics cards like that though. When I am shelling out over $1000 on graphics cards to make my 3DVision setup run perfectly, it seems really stupid to put training wheels back on and run it at such a low resolution. Luckily this market has pretty much made 1080p the standard, so the chances of the consumer version being 1080p are really really good (they have already hinted that they are making the consumer version higher res).

And regarding the community, you are totally right. I witnessed how awesome the community is over these last couple years dealing with 3D Vision and 3D Vision Surround. I had surround right when the driver was released, and have gotten many fixes from the community to get games working. When we are talking about an affordable virtual reality setup, I am sure we will have a great community backing it up.

More than anything I am hoping nVidia takes notice of this technology and either helps it along or at least supports it.

ASUS VG278H - i5 2500k @3.7 GHz - EVGA GeForce Titan SC Edition - 16GB Corsair Vengeance PC 1600 RAM - 500 GB WD Velociraptor - Win 7 64-bit Pro

#5
Posted 12/04/2012 10:37 PM   
Ill buy one and use it but I kind of refuse to get excited about it till it gets a renderer. (3D Vision/ Tridef) Rift is 1200X800 in 2D. In 3d its half that. Since SBS
Ill buy one and use it but I kind of refuse to get excited about it till it gets a renderer. (3D Vision/ Tridef)

Rift is 1200X800 in 2D. In 3d its half that. Since SBS
I guess I am easier to please eqzitara, lol. I hear 'affordable virtual reality' and I pretty much freak out hahahah. Regarding the resolution, I am not as worried about the size as I am the clarity. The actual size of each side-by-side image will only need to be as big as the eye can see through the lense of the Rift headset. The actual clarity of that image will be the key factor. Someone who has gamed in 1080p 3D for a long time will most definitely see a difference in 720p. Although the immersiveness of having it in a 3D headset might make up for the lost resolution a bit.
I guess I am easier to please eqzitara, lol. I hear 'affordable virtual reality' and I pretty much freak out hahahah.

Regarding the resolution, I am not as worried about the size as I am the clarity. The actual size of each side-by-side image will only need to be as big as the eye can see through the lense of the Rift headset. The actual clarity of that image will be the key factor. Someone who has gamed in 1080p 3D for a long time will most definitely see a difference in 720p. Although the immersiveness of having it in a 3D headset might make up for the lost resolution a bit.

ASUS VG278H - i5 2500k @3.7 GHz - EVGA GeForce Titan SC Edition - 16GB Corsair Vengeance PC 1600 RAM - 500 GB WD Velociraptor - Win 7 64-bit Pro

#7
Posted 12/04/2012 10:55 PM   
You might get your facts right, Dev kit resolution is 600x800 per eye which means each eye has an aspect ratio of 3:4 which is quite uncommon elsewhere. Instead of expensive optics the optical flaws needs to be corrected by software. The lens needs to be very close to your eyes to give the excellent field of view. The Rift has great potential and the response has been great from many people trying the early prototype. It is the best upcomming VR system targeting gaming. I'm not discounting the potential but the end result is best judged in retrospect rather than at this point in time. Right this moment it does not stand a chance against mature 3D Vision 2. If you decide to buy a devkit today it will arrive in April and support only one game. The game support will then grow over time as developers get access starting in march. Finally VR is a very different experience so I would actually prefer not to compare it to any kind of 3D display. Really high field of view and headtracking is a huge game changer. At the other end of the spectrum I would probably like to get early access with a devkit just to be able to program against it but with the current amount of time spent hobby programming it will probably not happen.
You might get your facts right,
Dev kit resolution is 600x800 per eye which means each eye has an aspect ratio of 3:4 which is quite uncommon elsewhere.
Instead of expensive optics the optical flaws needs to be corrected by software.
The lens needs to be very close to your eyes to give the excellent field of view.

The Rift has great potential and the response has been great from many people trying the early prototype.
It is the best upcomming VR system targeting gaming.

I'm not discounting the potential but the end result is best judged in retrospect rather than at this point in time.

Right this moment it does not stand a chance against mature 3D Vision 2. If you decide to buy a devkit today it will arrive in April and support only one game. The game support will then grow over time as developers get access starting in march.

Finally VR is a very different experience so I would actually prefer not to compare it to any kind of 3D display. Really high field of view and headtracking is a huge game changer.

At the other end of the spectrum I would probably like to get early access with a devkit just to be able to program against it but with the current amount of time spent hobby programming it will probably not happen.

#8
Posted 12/04/2012 10:59 PM   
I definately wont buy the Occulus Rift if it only supports a small number of games. Most of these games do not interest me. Occulus Rift is no 3D vision killer. That's for sure. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oculus_Rift "Games and game platforms must be specifically designed to work correctly with the Oculus Rift. Oculus is producing an SDK (software development kit) to assist developers with integrating the Oculus Rift with their games."
I definately wont buy the Occulus Rift if it only supports a small number of games.
Most of these games do not interest me. Occulus Rift is no 3D vision killer. That's for sure.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oculus_Rift


"Games and game platforms must be specifically designed to work correctly with the Oculus Rift. Oculus is producing an SDK (software development kit) to assist developers with integrating the Oculus Rift with their games."

[Acer GD245HQ - 1920x1080 120Hz] [Nvidia 3D Vision]
[Asus P7H55 - core i3 530 @4.15GHz ~1.39V and Zalman CNPS5X] [Transcend 2x2GB DDR3]
[Palit GTX 260 @ 695MHz (580 died)] [Intel SSD 330 - 240GB]
[Creative Titanium HD + Beyerdynamic DT 880 (250ohm) headphones] [Windows 7 64bit]

#9
Posted 12/04/2012 11:21 PM   
Again people, this is just a discussion thread. Nobody is saying the Rift is a 3D vision killer. In fact, the original post states that possibility is a long ways away! I made this post to just start discussing the technology, that is all. As a hard core gamer and supporter of 3D Vision, VR has always interested me. I started using 3D Vision for a more immersive experience. If a product comes along that is more immersive, you better believe I will get it. Any hard core gamer would. I guarantee you when the SDK is released and developers have the Rift dev units, that compatibility list will grow very quickly. For me personally, Hawken, Doom 3 BFG, Doom 4, and Star Citizen are plenty of reasons to try out the Oculus.
Again people, this is just a discussion thread. Nobody is saying the Rift is a 3D vision killer. In fact, the original post states that possibility is a long ways away! I made this post to just start discussing the technology, that is all. As a hard core gamer and supporter of 3D Vision, VR has always interested me. I started using 3D Vision for a more immersive experience. If a product comes along that is more immersive, you better believe I will get it. Any hard core gamer would.

I guarantee you when the SDK is released and developers have the Rift dev units, that compatibility list will grow very quickly. For me personally, Hawken, Doom 3 BFG, Doom 4, and Star Citizen are plenty of reasons to try out the Oculus.

ASUS VG278H - i5 2500k @3.7 GHz - EVGA GeForce Titan SC Edition - 16GB Corsair Vengeance PC 1600 RAM - 500 GB WD Velociraptor - Win 7 64-bit Pro

#10
Posted 12/04/2012 11:51 PM   
It'll be interesting to see where this goes. I think it's a great direction for game immersion, but any hardware driven sales will be dependent on the games available. Their eventual plans for console support could launch major support by developers since this is where the $$$$$$ is. If games for use of the Rift are developed for the console as the primary platform, I fear for the simplicity of the games to come. It'll be all twitch and stimulating the visual senses, kind of like a drug. Churn out those linear hold your hand and follow big go here marker...I mean game...I'm all for it and I will support it with my wallet as long as the the quality of the games are not dumbed down anymore than they already are. I hope it works out because this could taking the gaming experience to a new level.
It'll be interesting to see where this goes. I think it's a great direction for game immersion, but any hardware driven sales will be dependent on the games available. Their eventual plans for console support could launch major support by developers since this is where the $$$$$$ is. If games for use of the Rift are developed for the console as the primary platform, I fear for the simplicity of the games to come. It'll be all twitch and stimulating the visual senses, kind of like a drug. Churn out those linear hold your hand and follow big go here marker...I mean game...I'm all for it and I will support it with my wallet as long as the the quality of the games are not dumbed down anymore than they already are. I hope it works out because this could taking the gaming experience to a new level.

#11
Posted 12/04/2012 11:56 PM   
Excellent points Stryker_66. And your point about developers targeting consoles is one of my biggest pet peeves at the moment. The PC gamer has been hung out to dry a lot lately. Just to name a couple examples: Bungie (Halo 3, Halo Reach, Halo 4) Rockstar (Red Dead Redemption) Epic (Gears of War 2, Gears of War 3) Not only that, some of the games we get are greatly dumbed down just so they can work on consoles and the PC gets a shell of a ported game (Mass Effect Series and too many other examples to list). I think that is why I am backing games like Star Citizen. Chris Roberts is a PC gamer making a game that he would want to play on a PC. Not many people are doing that these days. The PC gamer has always wanted a more immersive experience than they could get on a console, that is why they spend the extra money and time. I get the feeling the Oculus Rift developers are also PC guys that are trying to make PC gaming even more immersive. The reason I posted about the Rift in this forum is because I know many 3D Vision users are just like me. Hard core gamers that are looking for the next big step in immersion. The Oculus Rift could put that reality a lot closer than any of us realize. But if it does fall on its face, we still have our 3D Vision setups to keep us going!
Excellent points Stryker_66. And your point about developers targeting consoles is one of my biggest pet peeves at the moment. The PC gamer has been hung out to dry a lot lately. Just to name a couple examples: Bungie (Halo 3, Halo Reach, Halo 4) Rockstar (Red Dead Redemption) Epic (Gears of War 2, Gears of War 3)

Not only that, some of the games we get are greatly dumbed down just so they can work on consoles and the PC gets a shell of a ported game (Mass Effect Series and too many other examples to list).

I think that is why I am backing games like Star Citizen. Chris Roberts is a PC gamer making a game that he would want to play on a PC. Not many people are doing that these days. The PC gamer has always wanted a more immersive experience than they could get on a console, that is why they spend the extra money and time. I get the feeling the Oculus Rift developers are also PC guys that are trying to make PC gaming even more immersive.

The reason I posted about the Rift in this forum is because I know many 3D Vision users are just like me. Hard core gamers that are looking for the next big step in immersion. The Oculus Rift could put that reality a lot closer than any of us realize. But if it does fall on its face, we still have our 3D Vision setups to keep us going!

ASUS VG278H - i5 2500k @3.7 GHz - EVGA GeForce Titan SC Edition - 16GB Corsair Vengeance PC 1600 RAM - 500 GB WD Velociraptor - Win 7 64-bit Pro

#12
Posted 12/05/2012 12:15 AM   
The main issue with Oculus Rift isnt even resolution, its pixel density, and it will have a big impact. Take a read of this article: http://blogs.valvesoftware.com/abrash/when-it-comes-to-resolution-its-all-relative/ Personally I'll be quite happy to forgo some resolution drop if games like Star Citizen support the device fully, what I will definitely need to see is how the pixel density holds up. I'm perfectly happy with resolutions around 1920x1080, I recently saw my friends 1440 Dell 27" monitor and to be honest I wasnt blown away by the additional resolution, I still prefer my Asus VG278H. I hope consoles do support the OR because it means far more PC games will also support it. We will always have to put up with bullshit ports, but at least the future of PC gaming didnt end up being the Kinnect.
The main issue with Oculus Rift isnt even resolution, its pixel density, and it will have a big impact.

Take a read of this article: http://blogs.valvesoftware.com/abrash/when-it-comes-to-resolution-its-all-relative/


Personally I'll be quite happy to forgo some resolution drop if games like Star Citizen support the device fully, what I will definitely need to see is how the pixel density holds up.

I'm perfectly happy with resolutions around 1920x1080, I recently saw my friends 1440 Dell 27" monitor and to be honest I wasnt blown away by the additional resolution, I still prefer my Asus VG278H.

I hope consoles do support the OR because it means far more PC games will also support it. We will always have to put up with bullshit ports, but at least the future of PC gaming didnt end up being the Kinnect.

#13
Posted 12/05/2012 01:27 AM   
Occulus Rift seems great for immersion but I want immersion in my favorite games. I am not interested to be immersed into a game which I dont like. As eqzitara said, Occulus needs a 3D renderer which can support a large number of games,especially existing games. I was actually thinking about replacing my monitor with an Occulus Rift. But since Occulus only supports a small number of games, there is no way I will do that. When it comes time for me to upgrade my monitor, I will have to decide: either spend money on Occulus Rift or buy a nicer monitor for 3D Vision. Unless Occulus is dirt cheap, my preference is to spend money on a nicer 3D monitor which can play all my favorite games.
Occulus Rift seems great for immersion but I want immersion in my favorite games.
I am not interested to be immersed into a game which I dont like.
As eqzitara said, Occulus needs a 3D renderer which can support a large number of games,especially existing games.

I was actually thinking about replacing my monitor with an Occulus Rift. But since Occulus only supports a small number of games, there is no way I will do that.

When it comes time for me to upgrade my monitor, I will have to decide: either spend money on Occulus Rift or buy a nicer monitor for 3D Vision. Unless Occulus is dirt cheap, my preference is to spend money on a nicer 3D monitor which can play all my favorite games.

[Acer GD245HQ - 1920x1080 120Hz] [Nvidia 3D Vision]
[Asus P7H55 - core i3 530 @4.15GHz ~1.39V and Zalman CNPS5X] [Transcend 2x2GB DDR3]
[Palit GTX 260 @ 695MHz (580 died)] [Intel SSD 330 - 240GB]
[Creative Titanium HD + Beyerdynamic DT 880 (250ohm) headphones] [Windows 7 64bit]

#14
Posted 12/05/2012 02:39 AM   
I am probably considered "negative" when it comes to the rift but so many people keep thinking its the "solution" based on no evidence whatsoever even though its much harder to support 3d vision. Also I have my doubts about mainy games who listed support tbh. Miner Wars doesnt even support normal 3D but supports the occulus? So many dev's say they will support 3D, and just dont or realize they need to fix something and just make a convient turn off switch(shadows/hud). These are all indie titles announced mainly at same time on same platform(kickstarter/steam spotlight) as well, I am not sure of any commitments. Borderlands 2 is an example of how commitments can mean very little with no repercussions.. I think a lot of people who sign up to buy one before a renderer/games are made has a great chance of getting burned.
I am probably considered "negative" when it comes to the rift but so many people keep thinking its the "solution" based on no evidence whatsoever even though its much harder to support 3d vision.
Also I have my doubts about mainy games who listed support tbh. Miner Wars doesnt even support normal 3D but supports the occulus? So many dev's say they will support 3D, and just dont or realize they need to fix something and just make a convient turn off switch(shadows/hud). These are all indie titles announced mainly at same time on same platform(kickstarter/steam spotlight) as well, I am not sure of any commitments. Borderlands 2 is an example of how commitments can mean very little with no repercussions.. I think a lot of people who sign up to buy one before a renderer/games are made has a great chance of getting burned.
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