Feature request: LOD adjustment for DirectX 10, 10.1, 11 and OpenGL AMD provides LOD adjustment for
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Hello,
as you may have noticed, AMD officially offers SGSSAA for OpenGL, DirectX 9, 10, 10.1 and 11 with the Radeon 7000 series.
With the 12.4 driver they are going to provide a LOD adjustment also for DX10+:
http://support.amd.com/us/kbarticles/Pages/HD78007Support.aspx
[quote]
-LOD Image quality enhancements have been improved when enabling Super Sample Anti-Aliasing and Adaptive
Anti-Aliasing through the AMD Catalyst™ Control Center for DirectX® 10 and DirectX® 11 applications.
-To be supported in AMD Catalyst 12.4
[/quote]

Why doesn't Nvidia offer such a feature?
AMD is showing that it's possible and I'm sure many enthusiasts would like to see Nvidia to implement it.

[b]What is the problem without LOD adjustment?[/b]
Without LOD adjustment textures and alphatextures become blurry with SGSSAA.

Example:
8xSGSSAA LOD -1,375 (just care for the texture details, the edges don't have anything to do with LOD adjustment):
[URL=http://www.ld-host.de/show/d39138123d65e577bb11da4163bb3dd9.png][IMG]http://www.ld-host.de/uploads/thumbnails/d39138123d65e577bb11da4163bb3dd9.png[/IMG][/URL]

8xSGSSAA LOD 0 (the current situation):
[URL=http://www.ld-host.de/show/40a243cc2131024f654bc950533091a9.png][IMG]http://www.ld-host.de/uploads/thumbnails/40a243cc2131024f654bc950533091a9.png[/IMG][/URL]

As you can see, the image without LOD adjustment is blurry, the trees don't look good at all (Don't forget to click into the picture if they are downscaled. /wink.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=';)' /> ).

Example 2:
8xSGSSAA LOD 0:
[URL=http://www.ld-host.de/show/5bf58e324ef3b108d7f387edf89d0d46.png][IMG]http://www.ld-host.de/uploads/thumbnails/5bf58e324ef3b108d7f387edf89d0d46.png[/IMG][/URL]

8xSGSSAA LOD -1,375:
[URL=http://www.ld-host.de/show/7569245141b8dadca1f4405ddf6445cb.png][IMG]http://www.ld-host.de/uploads/thumbnails/7569245141b8dadca1f4405ddf6445cb.png[/IMG][/URL]

Without LOD adjustment lots of texture and POM detail is killed. :(

[b]What are the disadvantages of having a LOD adjustment?[/b]
None.

So, please make it possible to let the user define a LOD adjustment via 3rd party tools (Nvidia Inspector) also for DirectX 10, 10.1 and 11 applications. We are talking about an unoffical hidden feature, AMD offers it officially via the Catalyst Control Center.
Currently, LOD adjustment is already possible for <=DX9 applications.
Having it for OpenGL isn't a must have but for DX10+ it'd be really an important thing.

Thanks.
Hello,

as you may have noticed, AMD officially offers SGSSAA for OpenGL, DirectX 9, 10, 10.1 and 11 with the Radeon 7000 series.

With the 12.4 driver they are going to provide a LOD adjustment also for DX10+:

http://support.amd.com/us/kbarticles/Pages/HD78007Support.aspx



-LOD Image quality enhancements have been improved when enabling Super Sample Anti-Aliasing and Adaptive

Anti-Aliasing through the AMD Catalyst™ Control Center for DirectX® 10 and DirectX® 11 applications.

-To be supported in AMD Catalyst 12.4





Why doesn't Nvidia offer such a feature?

AMD is showing that it's possible and I'm sure many enthusiasts would like to see Nvidia to implement it.



What is the problem without LOD adjustment?

Without LOD adjustment textures and alphatextures become blurry with SGSSAA.



Example:

8xSGSSAA LOD -1,375 (just care for the texture details, the edges don't have anything to do with LOD adjustment):

Image



8xSGSSAA LOD 0 (the current situation):

Image



As you can see, the image without LOD adjustment is blurry, the trees don't look good at all (Don't forget to click into the picture if they are downscaled. /wink.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=';)' /> ).



Example 2:

8xSGSSAA LOD 0:

Image



8xSGSSAA LOD -1,375:

Image



Without LOD adjustment lots of texture and POM detail is killed. :(



What are the disadvantages of having a LOD adjustment?

None.



So, please make it possible to let the user define a LOD adjustment via 3rd party tools (Nvidia Inspector) also for DirectX 10, 10.1 and 11 applications. We are talking about an unoffical hidden feature, AMD offers it officially via the Catalyst Control Center.

Currently, LOD adjustment is already possible for <=DX9 applications.

Having it for OpenGL isn't a must have but for DX10+ it'd be really an important thing.



Thanks.

#1
Posted 03/30/2012 10:32 PM   
Sure if you want it. I wouldn't want it. The one without the LOD adjustment looks better to my eyes. Especially the foiliage where on the Adjustment picture there is now aliasing or "over sharpened"

the unadjusted one looks like what I want and expect from FS-SGSSAA smooth alias free picture quality.


But still the option should exist for those who want it.
Sure if you want it. I wouldn't want it. The one without the LOD adjustment looks better to my eyes. Especially the foiliage where on the Adjustment picture there is now aliasing or "over sharpened"



the unadjusted one looks like what I want and expect from FS-SGSSAA smooth alias free picture quality.





But still the option should exist for those who want it.

#2
Posted 03/31/2012 01:46 AM   
[quote name='BONKERS' date='31 March 2012 - 01:46 AM' timestamp='1333158408' post='1390160']
But still the option should exist for those who want it.
[/quote]

Exactly. Having image quality flexibility is always desired rather than static settings.
[quote name='BONKERS' date='31 March 2012 - 01:46 AM' timestamp='1333158408' post='1390160']

But still the option should exist for those who want it.





Exactly. Having image quality flexibility is always desired rather than static settings.

Image

#3
Posted 03/31/2012 02:36 AM   
^ agreed. The ability to adjust the LOD is always welcome. If one doesn't want it, one can select a lower value or turn it off via the Nvidia Inspector. Please support it, Nvidia.
^ agreed. The ability to adjust the LOD is always welcome. If one doesn't want it, one can select a lower value or turn it off via the Nvidia Inspector. Please support it, Nvidia.

Intel Core i7-3930K @4,2GHz *** 16GB DDR3-1333 *** GTX Titan 6GB SLI

#4
Posted 03/31/2012 08:29 AM   
I support the request of Lod adjustment for dx10/11. This is something Nvidia is missing while his competitor can do it.
I support the request of Lod adjustment for dx10/11. This is something Nvidia is missing while his competitor can do it.

#5
Posted 03/31/2012 09:51 AM   
The Way It's Meant To Be Played = blurry with SGSSAA.
The Way It's Meant To Be Played = blurry with SGSSAA.

#6
Posted 03/31/2012 09:58 AM   
[quote name='cho' date='31 March 2012 - 05:58 AM' timestamp='1333187894' post='1390261']
The Way It's Meant To Be Played = blurry with SGSSAA.
[/quote]

Nvidia doesn't even support SGSSAA officially. It was a bug exposed by transparency AA that customers pressured them to reintroduce.

If/when they finally decide to support it, they'll probably do it right. Until then, you'll be stuck with DX9 LOD and AA compatibility hacks using 3rd party programs like Inspector.
[quote name='cho' date='31 March 2012 - 05:58 AM' timestamp='1333187894' post='1390261']

The Way It's Meant To Be Played = blurry with SGSSAA.





Nvidia doesn't even support SGSSAA officially. It was a bug exposed by transparency AA that customers pressured them to reintroduce.



If/when they finally decide to support it, they'll probably do it right. Until then, you'll be stuck with DX9 LOD and AA compatibility hacks using 3rd party programs like Inspector.

"This is your code. These are also your bugs. Really. Yes, the API runtime and the
driver have bugs, but this is not one of them. Now go fix it already." -fgiesen

#7
Posted 03/31/2012 11:57 AM   
[quote name='aufkrawall' date='31 March 2012 - 12:32 AM' timestamp='1333146731' post='1390095']
So, please make it possible to let the user define a LOD adjustment via 3rd party tools (Nvidia Inspector) also for DirectX 10, 10.1, 11 and OpenGL applications. We are talking about an unoffical hidden feature, AMD offers it officially via the Catalyst Control Center.
Currently, LOD adjustment is already possible for <DX9 applications.

Thanks.
[/quote]

+1 /thumbup.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':thumbup:' />
[quote name='aufkrawall' date='31 March 2012 - 12:32 AM' timestamp='1333146731' post='1390095']

So, please make it possible to let the user define a LOD adjustment via 3rd party tools (Nvidia Inspector) also for DirectX 10, 10.1, 11 and OpenGL applications. We are talking about an unoffical hidden feature, AMD offers it officially via the Catalyst Control Center.

Currently, LOD adjustment is already possible for <DX9 applications.



Thanks.





+1 /thumbup.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':thumbup:' />
#8
Posted 03/31/2012 12:12 PM   
[quote name='aufkrawall' date='31 March 2012 - 12:32 AM' timestamp='1333146731' post='1390095']So, please make it possible to let the user define a LOD adjustment via 3rd party tools (Nvidia Inspector) also for DirectX 10, 10.1, 11 and OpenGL applications. We are talking about an unoffical hidden feature, AMD offers it officially via the Catalyst Control Center.
Currently, LOD adjustment is already possible for <DX9 applications.[/quote]
/thumbup.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':thumbup:' />
More compatibility-bits would be fine, too.
[quote name='aufkrawall' date='31 March 2012 - 12:32 AM' timestamp='1333146731' post='1390095']So, please make it possible to let the user define a LOD adjustment via 3rd party tools (Nvidia Inspector) also for DirectX 10, 10.1, 11 and OpenGL applications. We are talking about an unoffical hidden feature, AMD offers it officially via the Catalyst Control Center.

Currently, LOD adjustment is already possible for <DX9 applications.

/thumbup.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':thumbup:' />

More compatibility-bits would be fine, too.

#9
Posted 03/31/2012 12:16 PM   
Better not. Because then i want to know why it took 2 years to offer lod adjustment for DX1x applications...
Better not. Because then i want to know why it took 2 years to offer lod adjustment for DX1x applications...

#10
Posted 03/31/2012 12:28 PM   
i support the idea
i support the idea

#11
Posted 03/31/2012 12:43 PM   
[quote name='sontin' date='31 March 2012 - 02:28 PM' timestamp='1333196885' post='1390294']
Better not. Because then i want to know why it took 2 years to offer lod adjustment for DX1x applications...
[/quote]

You know the saying "better late than never?"
[quote name='sontin' date='31 March 2012 - 02:28 PM' timestamp='1333196885' post='1390294']

Better not. Because then i want to know why it took 2 years to offer lod adjustment for DX1x applications...





You know the saying "better late than never?"

Intel Core i7-3930K @4,2GHz *** 16GB DDR3-1333 *** GTX Titan 6GB SLI

#12
Posted 03/31/2012 01:20 PM   
[quote name='BONKERS' date='31 March 2012 - 02:46 AM' timestamp='1333158408' post='1390160']
the unadjusted one looks like what I want and expect from FS-SGSSAA smooth alias free picture quality.
[/quote]
As I already wrote, the aliasing has nothing to do with LOD adjustment.
I added a better example to the start post. If you look at it you can't deny that lots of detail gets killed and that the picture with LOD adjustment looks much better. /wink.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=';)' />
You have to compare the texture detail with no AA or MSAA.
SGSSAA without LOD adjustment means loss of texture detail compared to no AA.
With LOD adjustment you have a gain of texture detail and AF for free.
[quote name='BONKERS' date='31 March 2012 - 02:46 AM' timestamp='1333158408' post='1390160']

the unadjusted one looks like what I want and expect from FS-SGSSAA smooth alias free picture quality.



As I already wrote, the aliasing has nothing to do with LOD adjustment.

I added a better example to the start post. If you look at it you can't deny that lots of detail gets killed and that the picture with LOD adjustment looks much better. /wink.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=';)' />

You have to compare the texture detail with no AA or MSAA.

SGSSAA without LOD adjustment means loss of texture detail compared to no AA.

With LOD adjustment you have a gain of texture detail and AF for free.

#13
Posted 03/31/2012 01:36 PM   
I also support this Idea.

I use nVidia Inspector to set manual the LOD 4xSGSSAA between 0,5~1 and for 8xSGSSAA 1,375~2. May be it would also be fine to force MSAA in DX10/11.

Btw. why should I buy a Geforce 680 if I cannot transform its power into imagequality. I use on my 560Ti most time 4xSGSSAA in Dx9 Games. But in Dx10/11 most games do not support native AA and I have no possibility to force AA by driver (okay it's forbidden by M$) and if I've a game that uses AA I can't set the LOD conform to the sparsegrid grade. We have powerfull crads which cannot transform their power so we should have this option for better/higher imagequality in any kind. I want to have the abillity to force MSAA SGSSAA FXAA and all I need to get best results for me.
I also support this Idea.



I use nVidia Inspector to set manual the LOD 4xSGSSAA between 0,5~1 and for 8xSGSSAA 1,375~2. May be it would also be fine to force MSAA in DX10/11.



Btw. why should I buy a Geforce 680 if I cannot transform its power into imagequality. I use on my 560Ti most time 4xSGSSAA in Dx9 Games. But in Dx10/11 most games do not support native AA and I have no possibility to force AA by driver (okay it's forbidden by M$) and if I've a game that uses AA I can't set the LOD conform to the sparsegrid grade. We have powerfull crads which cannot transform their power so we should have this option for better/higher imagequality in any kind. I want to have the abillity to force MSAA SGSSAA FXAA and all I need to get best results for me.

#14
Posted 03/31/2012 02:38 PM   
[color="#4169E1"]The Transparency Supersampling AA can be used to make foliage look better and it doesn't hit performance as bad as using fullscreen Supersampling AA. For example if you use NVidia Inspector to set AA Transparency to 4x or 8x Sparse Grid Supersamling.[/color]
The Transparency Supersampling AA can be used to make foliage look better and it doesn't hit performance as bad as using fullscreen Supersampling AA. For example if you use NVidia Inspector to set AA Transparency to 4x or 8x Sparse Grid Supersamling.

EVGA GTX 780, Haswell 4770K cpu@3.9 GHz, 16GB RAM, Win 8.1 Pro 64-bit, ASUS Maximus VI Hero motherboard, 250 GB SSD drive, 750W PC Power & Cooling power supply, Samsung 46" LED 1080p TV @60Hz, Soundblaster Z PCI-e.

#15
Posted 03/31/2012 03:43 PM   
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