Poor OpenGL performance
I honestly have no idea why this is happening but I'm going to assume it's driver related.

For whatever reason, OpenGL games lag on my system when they shouldn't be. Example, in Counter-Strike 1.6, whenever a smoke grenade goes off in close proximity, my FPS literally cuts in half (but only for 1 second). So basically it's like a huge FPS lag spike. May not sound like that big of deal but I've died many unnecessary deaths because of it. I tried testing some other OpenGL games on my system (Doom 3 and Quake 4) and am running into the same issue. I can't even use 4x MSAA in Doom 3 without getting serious lag through smoke and other complex action scenes, which is absurd considering my system specs which I'll provide later. With SikkMod, forget about even using anti-aliasing. Quake 4 is the same way. Fortunately, as far as I can tell, Direct3D games do not suffer from these issues and I've tested a lot.

Specs:

Q9650 (stock speed)
4GB DDR2-800
GTX 550Ti
WinXP 32-bit

My system is not top of the line by any means but should be able to run these 8 to 12 year old games without a hitch.

I've tried different drivers. I've tried putting in my old video card (9800GT). No change.

I do know when I first got my computer, I [i]did not[/i] have these issues. I could play CS 1.6/Doom 3 smooth as butter with jacked up anti-aliasing and not get any FPS drops. Pretty sure I was able to use 8x MSAA in Doom 3 with 60 FPS solid on a 9800 GT. Now, I can't even use 4x MSAA on a 550GTX Ti without getting serious fps drops. I don't know what happened since then but I lag now so I assume it's gotta be drivers.

As a side note, I saw someone post about the [i]exact[/i] problem I'm having with Counter-Strike 1.6 in these very forums but unfortunately for me I cannot find the thread anymore.
I honestly have no idea why this is happening but I'm going to assume it's driver related.



For whatever reason, OpenGL games lag on my system when they shouldn't be. Example, in Counter-Strike 1.6, whenever a smoke grenade goes off in close proximity, my FPS literally cuts in half (but only for 1 second). So basically it's like a huge FPS lag spike. May not sound like that big of deal but I've died many unnecessary deaths because of it. I tried testing some other OpenGL games on my system (Doom 3 and Quake 4) and am running into the same issue. I can't even use 4x MSAA in Doom 3 without getting serious lag through smoke and other complex action scenes, which is absurd considering my system specs which I'll provide later. With SikkMod, forget about even using anti-aliasing. Quake 4 is the same way. Fortunately, as far as I can tell, Direct3D games do not suffer from these issues and I've tested a lot.



Specs:



Q9650 (stock speed)

4GB DDR2-800

GTX 550Ti

WinXP 32-bit



My system is not top of the line by any means but should be able to run these 8 to 12 year old games without a hitch.



I've tried different drivers. I've tried putting in my old video card (9800GT). No change.



I do know when I first got my computer, I did not have these issues. I could play CS 1.6/Doom 3 smooth as butter with jacked up anti-aliasing and not get any FPS drops. Pretty sure I was able to use 8x MSAA in Doom 3 with 60 FPS solid on a 9800 GT. Now, I can't even use 4x MSAA on a 550GTX Ti without getting serious fps drops. I don't know what happened since then but I lag now so I assume it's gotta be drivers.



As a side note, I saw someone post about the exact problem I'm having with Counter-Strike 1.6 in these very forums but unfortunately for me I cannot find the thread anymore.

#1
Posted 02/21/2012 07:10 AM   
NVIDIA Fermi/Drivers has OpenGL issues, especially in Windows XP. In this case you might experience better performance in Windows 7. That said, I've played Doom3 recently in XP with acceptable performance with antialiasing. The trick was getting vsync and triple buffering to function properly. NVIDIA Inspector can help with that.
NVIDIA Fermi/Drivers has OpenGL issues, especially in Windows XP. In this case you might experience better performance in Windows 7. That said, I've played Doom3 recently in XP with acceptable performance with antialiasing. The trick was getting vsync and triple buffering to function properly. NVIDIA Inspector can help with that.

"This is your code. These are also your bugs. Really. Yes, the API runtime and the
driver have bugs, but this is not one of them. Now go fix it already." -fgiesen

#2
Posted 02/21/2012 02:53 PM   
This really needs to be fixed. I heard that it's due to something being taken out of hardware and that it could be worked around through CUDA.
This really needs to be fixed. I heard that it's due to something being taken out of hardware and that it could be worked around through CUDA.

#3
Posted 02/21/2012 04:39 PM   
[quote name='nvtweakman' date='22 February 2012 - 12:53 AM' timestamp='1329836027' post='1372279']
NVIDIA Fermi/Drivers has OpenGL issues, especially in Windows XP. In this case you might experience better performance in Windows 7. That said, I've played Doom3 recently in XP with acceptable performance with antialiasing. The trick was getting vsync and triple buffering to function properly. NVIDIA Inspector can help with that.
[/quote]

the opengl "issues" are explicitly limited to desktop rendering tools. OpenGL "GAMES" have no performance problems on Fermi graphics cards.

More likely its that Core 2 Duo and threaded optimisation being a pain in the butt again.
on core 2 processors the ICD tends to use a fair bit more CPU time then it should, eating into the draw call processing.

Its explicitly encouraged to force threaded optimisation to off for games as old as CS 1.6
[quote name='nvtweakman' date='22 February 2012 - 12:53 AM' timestamp='1329836027' post='1372279']

NVIDIA Fermi/Drivers has OpenGL issues, especially in Windows XP. In this case you might experience better performance in Windows 7. That said, I've played Doom3 recently in XP with acceptable performance with antialiasing. The trick was getting vsync and triple buffering to function properly. NVIDIA Inspector can help with that.





the opengl "issues" are explicitly limited to desktop rendering tools. OpenGL "GAMES" have no performance problems on Fermi graphics cards.



More likely its that Core 2 Duo and threaded optimisation being a pain in the butt again.

on core 2 processors the ICD tends to use a fair bit more CPU time then it should, eating into the draw call processing.



Its explicitly encouraged to force threaded optimisation to off for games as old as CS 1.6



In Memory of Chris "ChrisRay" Arthington, 1982-2010

CPU:Intel i7 920 @ 3.8(D0), Mainboard:Asus Rampage II Gene, Memory:12GB Corsair Vengeance 1600
Video:EVGA Geforce GTX 680+ 4GB, Sound:Creative XFI Titanium Fatal1ty Pro, Monitor:BenQ G2400WD
HDD:500GB Spinpoint F3, 1TB WD Black, 2TB WD Red, 1TB WD Black
Case:NZXT Guardian 921RB, PSU:Corsair 620HX, OS:Windows 7 SP1

#4
Posted 02/21/2012 08:59 PM   
[quote name='Sora' date='21 February 2012 - 03:59 PM' timestamp='1329857945' post='1372522']
the opengl "issues" are explicitly limited to desktop rendering tools.
[/quote]

Nope. Some benchmarks are affected as well.

Not only is OpenGL performance suffering, so is OpenCL as of late.
[quote name='Sora' date='21 February 2012 - 03:59 PM' timestamp='1329857945' post='1372522']

the opengl "issues" are explicitly limited to desktop rendering tools.





Nope. Some benchmarks are affected as well.



Not only is OpenGL performance suffering, so is OpenCL as of late.

"This is your code. These are also your bugs. Really. Yes, the API runtime and the
driver have bugs, but this is not one of them. Now go fix it already." -fgiesen

#5
Posted 02/21/2012 09:10 PM   
which benchmarks?

there hasn't been a decently written opengl benchmark since code creatures. (which isn't affected btw).

All opengl performance recieved a good boost with release 280 after the nwn fix was introduced.

on Geforce, only synthetic benches and workstation apps take a INTENTIONAL hit because of a software limit placed on GlReadPixels. This doesn't affect games at all.


There does appear to be a major performance hit from Threaded optimisation in the current drivers
which benchmarks?



there hasn't been a decently written opengl benchmark since code creatures. (which isn't affected btw).



All opengl performance recieved a good boost with release 280 after the nwn fix was introduced.



on Geforce, only synthetic benches and workstation apps take a INTENTIONAL hit because of a software limit placed on GlReadPixels. This doesn't affect games at all.





There does appear to be a major performance hit from Threaded optimisation in the current drivers



In Memory of Chris "ChrisRay" Arthington, 1982-2010

CPU:Intel i7 920 @ 3.8(D0), Mainboard:Asus Rampage II Gene, Memory:12GB Corsair Vengeance 1600
Video:EVGA Geforce GTX 680+ 4GB, Sound:Creative XFI Titanium Fatal1ty Pro, Monitor:BenQ G2400WD
HDD:500GB Spinpoint F3, 1TB WD Black, 2TB WD Red, 1TB WD Black
Case:NZXT Guardian 921RB, PSU:Corsair 620HX, OS:Windows 7 SP1

#6
Posted 02/21/2012 11:37 PM   
This started happening sometime when I was using my 9800GT and it's not a Fermi. And I've messed with the "Threaded Optimization" setting in the past and again today. On, Off, NVIDIA Recommended, it's all the same.

Sora, what is the nwn fix you're referring to with the 280 release drivers?

[quote name='nvtweakman' date='21 February 2012 - 09:53 AM' timestamp='1329836027' post='1372279']
That said, I've played Doom3 recently in XP with acceptable performance with antialiasing. The trick was getting vsync and triple buffering to function properly. NVIDIA Inspector can help with that.
[/quote]

Why do you need NVIDIA Inspector to get "vsync and triple buffering to function properly"? I just turn v-sync on in-game and enable triple buffering in control panel, no issues here.
This started happening sometime when I was using my 9800GT and it's not a Fermi. And I've messed with the "Threaded Optimization" setting in the past and again today. On, Off, NVIDIA Recommended, it's all the same.



Sora, what is the nwn fix you're referring to with the 280 release drivers?



[quote name='nvtweakman' date='21 February 2012 - 09:53 AM' timestamp='1329836027' post='1372279']

That said, I've played Doom3 recently in XP with acceptable performance with antialiasing. The trick was getting vsync and triple buffering to function properly. NVIDIA Inspector can help with that.





Why do you need NVIDIA Inspector to get "vsync and triple buffering to function properly"? I just turn v-sync on in-game and enable triple buffering in control panel, no issues here.

#7
Posted 02/22/2012 12:41 AM   
[quote]Sora, what is the nwn fix you're referring to with the 280 release drivers?[/quote]

[url="http://forums.nvidia.com/index.php?showtopic=188517"]http://forums.nvidia...howtopic=188517[/url]

I'm just messing with the driver right now and seeing a bug in the threaded optimisation setting actually.

the auto value doesn't actually work properly. if you set it to off then back to auto apps that are affected still act like its set to off,
if you set it to on, then you get the same behavior with auto acting like its set to on.
Sora, what is the nwn fix you're referring to with the 280 release drivers?




http://forums.nvidia...howtopic=188517



I'm just messing with the driver right now and seeing a bug in the threaded optimisation setting actually.



the auto value doesn't actually work properly. if you set it to off then back to auto apps that are affected still act like its set to off,

if you set it to on, then you get the same behavior with auto acting like its set to on.



In Memory of Chris "ChrisRay" Arthington, 1982-2010

CPU:Intel i7 920 @ 3.8(D0), Mainboard:Asus Rampage II Gene, Memory:12GB Corsair Vengeance 1600
Video:EVGA Geforce GTX 680+ 4GB, Sound:Creative XFI Titanium Fatal1ty Pro, Monitor:BenQ G2400WD
HDD:500GB Spinpoint F3, 1TB WD Black, 2TB WD Red, 1TB WD Black
Case:NZXT Guardian 921RB, PSU:Corsair 620HX, OS:Windows 7 SP1

#8
Posted 02/22/2012 01:02 AM   
The poor OpenGL performance is nothing threaded optimization can fix.

Joeking, if you have "no issues here", why are you asking for my help.. There is a vsync/TB bug which can kill performance and create severe screen tearing.
The poor OpenGL performance is nothing threaded optimization can fix.



Joeking, if you have "no issues here", why are you asking for my help.. There is a vsync/TB bug which can kill performance and create severe screen tearing.

"This is your code. These are also your bugs. Really. Yes, the API runtime and the
driver have bugs, but this is not one of them. Now go fix it already." -fgiesen

#9
Posted 02/22/2012 02:48 AM   
[quote name='nvtweakman' date='21 February 2012 - 09:48 PM' timestamp='1329878930' post='1372762']
The poor OpenGL performance is nothing threaded optimization can fix.

Joeking, if you have "no issues here", why are you asking for my help.. There is a vsync/TB bug which can kill performance and create severe screen tearing.
[/quote]

I have no issues with enabling vsync and TB without 3rd party applications. Clearly that's what I meant. I was simply asking why you needed to use Nvidia Inspector.
[quote name='nvtweakman' date='21 February 2012 - 09:48 PM' timestamp='1329878930' post='1372762']

The poor OpenGL performance is nothing threaded optimization can fix.



Joeking, if you have "no issues here", why are you asking for my help.. There is a vsync/TB bug which can kill performance and create severe screen tearing.





I have no issues with enabling vsync and TB without 3rd party applications. Clearly that's what I meant. I was simply asking why you needed to use Nvidia Inspector.

#10
Posted 02/22/2012 03:29 AM   
[quote name='nvtweakman' date='22 February 2012 - 12:48 PM' timestamp='1329878930' post='1372762']
The poor OpenGL performance is nothing threaded optimization can fix.

Joeking, if you have "no issues here", why are you asking for my help.. There is a vsync/TB bug which can kill performance and create severe screen tearing.
[/quote]

There is NO poor opengl performance.

GlReadBuffer and GLReadPixel are not used in any games, Rage included.

Its true that some games did not scale much on fermi because of minimal Zixel performance over G200
[quote name='nvtweakman' date='22 February 2012 - 12:48 PM' timestamp='1329878930' post='1372762']

The poor OpenGL performance is nothing threaded optimization can fix.



Joeking, if you have "no issues here", why are you asking for my help.. There is a vsync/TB bug which can kill performance and create severe screen tearing.





There is NO poor opengl performance.



GlReadBuffer and GLReadPixel are not used in any games, Rage included.



Its true that some games did not scale much on fermi because of minimal Zixel performance over G200



In Memory of Chris "ChrisRay" Arthington, 1982-2010

CPU:Intel i7 920 @ 3.8(D0), Mainboard:Asus Rampage II Gene, Memory:12GB Corsair Vengeance 1600
Video:EVGA Geforce GTX 680+ 4GB, Sound:Creative XFI Titanium Fatal1ty Pro, Monitor:BenQ G2400WD
HDD:500GB Spinpoint F3, 1TB WD Black, 2TB WD Red, 1TB WD Black
Case:NZXT Guardian 921RB, PSU:Corsair 620HX, OS:Windows 7 SP1

#11
Posted 02/22/2012 03:43 AM   
[quote name='Sora' date='21 February 2012 - 08:02 PM' timestamp='1329872534' post='1372676']the auto value doesn't actually work properly. if you set it to off then back to auto apps that are affected still act like its set to off, if you set it to on, then you get the same behavior with auto acting like its set to on.
[/quote]

What driver version are you testing this out on and does the toggling behavior return to normal if you restart your computer? I ask cause I've just downloaded and installed the 295.73 WHQL's and cannot reproduce the auto value bug you are speaking of.
[quote name='Sora' date='21 February 2012 - 08:02 PM' timestamp='1329872534' post='1372676']the auto value doesn't actually work properly. if you set it to off then back to auto apps that are affected still act like its set to off, if you set it to on, then you get the same behavior with auto acting like its set to on.





What driver version are you testing this out on and does the toggling behavior return to normal if you restart your computer? I ask cause I've just downloaded and installed the 295.73 WHQL's and cannot reproduce the auto value bug you are speaking of.

#12
Posted 02/22/2012 04:09 AM   
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