AGP PORT Is it alive or is it Dead?
Looks like pci express wins over AGP...Can't find a AGP card for games anymore..AGP is a dedicated slot like pci express so why haven't the manufactures offered a card with all the bells n whistles for a AGP Card like they offer for pci express???

There's loads of AGP gamers out there that can't play because there's no cards available. Where's the AGP cards for gamers?
Looks like pci express wins over AGP...Can't find a AGP card for games anymore..AGP is a dedicated slot like pci express so why haven't the manufactures offered a card with all the bells n whistles for a AGP Card like they offer for pci express???



There's loads of AGP gamers out there that can't play because there's no cards available. Where's the AGP cards for gamers?

#1
Posted 02/17/2012 09:09 AM   
AGP is dead, mainly because they are very limited in bandwidth capacity.

Also, no board manufacturers are making boards with AGP anymore, so why would video card makers want to develop tech for EOL expansion slots.
AGP is dead, mainly because they are very limited in bandwidth capacity.



Also, no board manufacturers are making boards with AGP anymore, so why would video card makers want to develop tech for EOL expansion slots.

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#2
Posted 02/17/2012 03:13 PM   
[quote name='bLuDrGn' date='17 February 2012 - 10:13 AM' timestamp='1329491584' post='1370736']
AGP is dead, mainly because they are very limited in bandwidth capacity.

Also, no board manufacturers are making boards with AGP anymore, so why would video card makers want to develop tech for EOL expansion slots.
[/quote]

Bandwidth capacity?..You must be thinking of internet bandwidth capacity..ELO? End Of Life? I bet within 10 years from now the "expansion slots" will change again..They will phase out pci express just like AGP.
[quote name='bLuDrGn' date='17 February 2012 - 10:13 AM' timestamp='1329491584' post='1370736']

AGP is dead, mainly because they are very limited in bandwidth capacity.



Also, no board manufacturers are making boards with AGP anymore, so why would video card makers want to develop tech for EOL expansion slots.





Bandwidth capacity?..You must be thinking of internet bandwidth capacity..ELO? End Of Life? I bet within 10 years from now the "expansion slots" will change again..They will phase out pci express just like AGP.

#3
Posted 02/17/2012 04:09 PM   
No, I'm talking about the maximum bandwidth that can go through the AGP slot. An AGP 8x slot can throughput roughly the equivalent of a PCIe1.0 8x or a PCIe2.0 4x slot, assuming AGP slot was efficiently utilized to the max. Most video cards today need at least a PCIe2.0 8x slot in order to not get bottlenecked by the slot itself.

EOL = end of life

I'd expect it to happen sooner, but that's how technology works.
No, I'm talking about the maximum bandwidth that can go through the AGP slot. An AGP 8x slot can throughput roughly the equivalent of a PCIe1.0 8x or a PCIe2.0 4x slot, assuming AGP slot was efficiently utilized to the max. Most video cards today need at least a PCIe2.0 8x slot in order to not get bottlenecked by the slot itself.



EOL = end of life



I'd expect it to happen sooner, but that's how technology works.

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#4
Posted 02/17/2012 04:43 PM   
PCI was a slot upgrade ...first there's IDE slot then PCI then AGP..now its PCI again..Bet they will phase out PCI again and go with a something like AGP with 2 or more slots for the card..Add in a few processors loads of faster memory and BAM...Time to buy a new computer, haha..

They got cha no matter what lol
PCI was a slot upgrade ...first there's IDE slot then PCI then AGP..now its PCI again..Bet they will phase out PCI again and go with a something like AGP with 2 or more slots for the card..Add in a few processors loads of faster memory and BAM...Time to buy a new computer, haha..



They got cha no matter what lol

#5
Posted 02/17/2012 05:46 PM   
I'm not entirely sure I understand the complaints being made here. You clearly understand that industry standards change (though in fairness you are exaggerating the rate of that,) so being surprised to find little to no modern hardware supports AGP seems a bit silly to me, especially when you consider that PCIe was introduced more than six years ago as the direct replacement for AGP.
I'm not entirely sure I understand the complaints being made here. You clearly understand that industry standards change (though in fairness you are exaggerating the rate of that,) so being surprised to find little to no modern hardware supports AGP seems a bit silly to me, especially when you consider that PCIe was introduced more than six years ago as the direct replacement for AGP.

GeForce Technical Marketing

#6
Posted 02/17/2012 06:50 PM   
[quote name='Exitios' date='17 February 2012 - 01:50 PM' timestamp='1329504636' post='1370834']
I'm not entirely sure I understand the complaints being made here. You clearly understand that industry standards change (though in fairness you are exaggerating the rate of that,) so being surprised to find little to no modern hardware supports AGP seems a bit silly to me, especially when you consider that PCIe was introduced more than six years ago as the direct replacement for AGP.
[/quote]


who's complaining..i understand that video card manufactures as well as processor and memory manufactures follow the boys who make the motherboards..Are you saying nvidia is NOW a motherboard manufacturer? There's nothing "silly" about a dedicated port for graphics..AGP...Duel AGP's on a board would be faster and more reliable...one chip.. two processors and lots of ram..

Please tell me its not possible to build a motherboard for a video card like PCI express and incorporate AGP..PCI was old tech and AGP was the upgrade..Its only fair to explore the AGP with double slots like PCI..
[quote name='Exitios' date='17 February 2012 - 01:50 PM' timestamp='1329504636' post='1370834']

I'm not entirely sure I understand the complaints being made here. You clearly understand that industry standards change (though in fairness you are exaggerating the rate of that,) so being surprised to find little to no modern hardware supports AGP seems a bit silly to me, especially when you consider that PCIe was introduced more than six years ago as the direct replacement for AGP.







who's complaining..i understand that video card manufactures as well as processor and memory manufactures follow the boys who make the motherboards..Are you saying nvidia is NOW a motherboard manufacturer? There's nothing "silly" about a dedicated port for graphics..AGP...Duel AGP's on a board would be faster and more reliable...one chip.. two processors and lots of ram..



Please tell me its not possible to build a motherboard for a video card like PCI express and incorporate AGP..PCI was old tech and AGP was the upgrade..Its only fair to explore the AGP with double slots like PCI..

#7
Posted 02/17/2012 07:30 PM   
AGP definitely wasn't and won't be faster than a PCIe bus of any relevant width, due mostly to its half-duplex (unidirectional) lanes, and since AGP ports were wired straight into the system memory channels to provide direct access for texture fetching, much of that bandwidth went unused once graphics cards with 64MB+ of dedicated VRAM (which exhibits substantially higher effective memory bandwidth) became readily available. Moreover, because of this direct memory access design, it would have been impossible to integrate auxiliary AGP ports without some form of controller to prevent data collisions. Reliability is/was a non-issue on both platforms.

There's nothing wrong with the [i]idea[/i] of a dedicated graphics interface bus per se, but in practice, they restrict design options for manufacturers and limit build possibilities for users. PCIe has much higher throughput, supports mixed bus/device iterations, and is a universal interface; for this to be replaced by a specialized slot it would have to be subverted by something truly amazing, and that won't be AGP.
AGP definitely wasn't and won't be faster than a PCIe bus of any relevant width, due mostly to its half-duplex (unidirectional) lanes, and since AGP ports were wired straight into the system memory channels to provide direct access for texture fetching, much of that bandwidth went unused once graphics cards with 64MB+ of dedicated VRAM (which exhibits substantially higher effective memory bandwidth) became readily available. Moreover, because of this direct memory access design, it would have been impossible to integrate auxiliary AGP ports without some form of controller to prevent data collisions. Reliability is/was a non-issue on both platforms.



There's nothing wrong with the idea of a dedicated graphics interface bus per se, but in practice, they restrict design options for manufacturers and limit build possibilities for users. PCIe has much higher throughput, supports mixed bus/device iterations, and is a universal interface; for this to be replaced by a specialized slot it would have to be subverted by something truly amazing, and that won't be AGP.

GeForce Technical Marketing

#8
Posted 02/17/2012 09:10 PM   
What's silly is OP's misbelief and insistence that AGP is somehow the better technology because it's a dedicated port. At the time, Intel thought it would be a good idea to create a dedicated interface for graphics to avoid sharing bandwidth with other devices which are using PCI, and that's how AGP was born. Mainboard manufacturers grumbled though since they're not thrilled about having to add a new separate and highly specialized interface. Fortunately, Intel came up with a better and faster solution which is PCI Express which is flexible, universal, and still maintains backward compatibility with PCI which is why PCI slots are still available even on the latest mainboards. Mainboard manufacturers rejoiced and dropped AGP. Once they dropped AGP, graphics card makers naturally stopped making AGP cards. PCI Express is such a good design that all near-future interfaces will be PCI Express (PCIe 3.0 and PCIe 4.0). There's just no place for AGP and no real-world benefit for using a dedicated port for graphics.

For those gamers who are still using old systems with AGP, it's really time to upgrade. Even if a graphics manufacturer makes a modern graphics card with AGP, those old systems are just too slow to take advantage of modern graphics cards and will be bottlenecking the cards heavily especially in modern games which also require more CPU power.
What's silly is OP's misbelief and insistence that AGP is somehow the better technology because it's a dedicated port. At the time, Intel thought it would be a good idea to create a dedicated interface for graphics to avoid sharing bandwidth with other devices which are using PCI, and that's how AGP was born. Mainboard manufacturers grumbled though since they're not thrilled about having to add a new separate and highly specialized interface. Fortunately, Intel came up with a better and faster solution which is PCI Express which is flexible, universal, and still maintains backward compatibility with PCI which is why PCI slots are still available even on the latest mainboards. Mainboard manufacturers rejoiced and dropped AGP. Once they dropped AGP, graphics card makers naturally stopped making AGP cards. PCI Express is such a good design that all near-future interfaces will be PCI Express (PCIe 3.0 and PCIe 4.0). There's just no place for AGP and no real-world benefit for using a dedicated port for graphics.



For those gamers who are still using old systems with AGP, it's really time to upgrade. Even if a graphics manufacturer makes a modern graphics card with AGP, those old systems are just too slow to take advantage of modern graphics cards and will be bottlenecking the cards heavily especially in modern games which also require more CPU power.

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#9
Posted 02/18/2012 12:36 AM   
[quote name='Exitios' date='17 February 2012 - 04:10 PM' timestamp='1329513004' post='1370875']
AGP definitely wasn't and won't be faster than a PCIe bus of any relevant width, due mostly to its half-duplex (unidirectional) lanes, and since AGP ports were wired straight into the system memory channels to provide direct access for texture fetching, much of that bandwidth went unused once graphics cards with 64MB+ of dedicated VRAM (which exhibits substantially higher effective memory bandwidth) became readily available. Moreover, because of this direct memory access design, it would have been impossible to integrate auxiliary AGP ports without some form of controller to prevent data collisions. Reliability is/was a non-issue on both platforms.

There's nothing wrong with the [i]idea[/i] of a dedicated graphics interface bus per se, but in practice, they restrict design options for manufacturers and limit build possibilities for users. PCIe has much higher throughput, supports mixed bus/device iterations, and is a universal interface; for this to be replaced by a specialized slot it would have to be subverted by something truly amazing, and that won't be AGP.
[/quote]


I vision a motherboard just like a road map..lol..really, i plan my route and take the quickest way to get there..BUS Speed...a glorified way to say the route of travel...slow BUS=long trip...fast BUS=short trip..haha but true...same for video card BUS Speeds..actually any slot they come up with will work as long as the route they take is short, <--for gamers and graphics..

[i]the design options [/i]are only limited by the inventor..i see no reason why video cards can't be (L)or(7)shaped...doing so would allow more surface area for more add on stuff..like 2 processors..larger chips..more memory..
[quote name='Exitios' date='17 February 2012 - 04:10 PM' timestamp='1329513004' post='1370875']

AGP definitely wasn't and won't be faster than a PCIe bus of any relevant width, due mostly to its half-duplex (unidirectional) lanes, and since AGP ports were wired straight into the system memory channels to provide direct access for texture fetching, much of that bandwidth went unused once graphics cards with 64MB+ of dedicated VRAM (which exhibits substantially higher effective memory bandwidth) became readily available. Moreover, because of this direct memory access design, it would have been impossible to integrate auxiliary AGP ports without some form of controller to prevent data collisions. Reliability is/was a non-issue on both platforms.



There's nothing wrong with the idea of a dedicated graphics interface bus per se, but in practice, they restrict design options for manufacturers and limit build possibilities for users. PCIe has much higher throughput, supports mixed bus/device iterations, and is a universal interface; for this to be replaced by a specialized slot it would have to be subverted by something truly amazing, and that won't be AGP.







I vision a motherboard just like a road map..lol..really, i plan my route and take the quickest way to get there..BUS Speed...a glorified way to say the route of travel...slow BUS=long trip...fast BUS=short trip..haha but true...same for video card BUS Speeds..actually any slot they come up with will work as long as the route they take is short, <--for gamers and graphics..



the design options are only limited by the inventor..i see no reason why video cards can't be (L)or(7)shaped...doing so would allow more surface area for more add on stuff..like 2 processors..larger chips..more memory..

#10
Posted 02/18/2012 03:57 AM   
[quote name='Ital' date='17 February 2012 - 07:36 PM' timestamp='1329525393' post='1370945']
What's silly is OP's misbelief and insistence that AGP is somehow the better technology because it's a dedicated port. At the time, Intel thought it would be a good idea to create a dedicated interface for graphics to avoid sharing bandwidth with other devices which are using PCI, and that's how AGP was born. Mainboard manufacturers grumbled though since they're not thrilled about having to add a new separate and highly specialized interface. Fortunately, Intel came up with a better and faster solution which is PCI Express which is flexible, universal, and still maintains backward compatibility with PCI which is why PCI slots are still available even on the latest mainboards. Mainboard manufacturers rejoiced and dropped AGP. Once they dropped AGP, graphics card makers naturally stopped making AGP cards. PCI Express is such a good design that all near-future interfaces will be PCI Express (PCIe 3.0 and PCIe 4.0). There's just no place for AGP and no real-world benefit for using a dedicated port for graphics.

For those gamers who are still using old systems with AGP, it's really time to upgrade. Even if a graphics manufacturer makes a modern graphics card with AGP, those old systems are just too slow to take advantage of modern graphics cards and will be bottlenecking the cards heavily especially in modern games which also require more CPU power.
[/quote]


its not silly to assume PCI will survive any longer than did AGP..Mainboard manufactures along with all the other componets manufactures ALSO REJOICED knowing the checks in the mail...they intentially make it so you MUST purchase all new hardware just for a PCI express card..It won't be long before they phase out PCI Express with something differen't...i figure around 8-10 years it will be... "see ya PCI Express" make way for change...and the beat goes on.
[quote name='Ital' date='17 February 2012 - 07:36 PM' timestamp='1329525393' post='1370945']

What's silly is OP's misbelief and insistence that AGP is somehow the better technology because it's a dedicated port. At the time, Intel thought it would be a good idea to create a dedicated interface for graphics to avoid sharing bandwidth with other devices which are using PCI, and that's how AGP was born. Mainboard manufacturers grumbled though since they're not thrilled about having to add a new separate and highly specialized interface. Fortunately, Intel came up with a better and faster solution which is PCI Express which is flexible, universal, and still maintains backward compatibility with PCI which is why PCI slots are still available even on the latest mainboards. Mainboard manufacturers rejoiced and dropped AGP. Once they dropped AGP, graphics card makers naturally stopped making AGP cards. PCI Express is such a good design that all near-future interfaces will be PCI Express (PCIe 3.0 and PCIe 4.0). There's just no place for AGP and no real-world benefit for using a dedicated port for graphics.



For those gamers who are still using old systems with AGP, it's really time to upgrade. Even if a graphics manufacturer makes a modern graphics card with AGP, those old systems are just too slow to take advantage of modern graphics cards and will be bottlenecking the cards heavily especially in modern games which also require more CPU power.







its not silly to assume PCI will survive any longer than did AGP..Mainboard manufactures along with all the other componets manufactures ALSO REJOICED knowing the checks in the mail...they intentially make it so you MUST purchase all new hardware just for a PCI express card..It won't be long before they phase out PCI Express with something differen't...i figure around 8-10 years it will be... "see ya PCI Express" make way for change...and the beat goes on.

#11
Posted 02/18/2012 04:19 AM   
[quote name='TeacherPHD' date='18 February 2012 - 11:19 AM' timestamp='1329538758' post='1371012']
its not silly to assume PCI will survive any longer than did AGP..Mainboard manufactures along with all the other componets manufactures ALSO REJOICED knowing the checks in the mail...they intentially make it so you MUST purchase all new hardware just for a PCI express card..It won't be long before they phase out PCI Express with something differen't...i figure around 8-10 years it will be... "see ya PCI Express" make way for change...and the beat goes on.
[/quote]

Indeed, and that beat is called progress. If something better than PCI Express comes along then of course it will replace it. Why is that a problem? And progress is not free, you have to pay for it. If you don't want to pay for progress, then stick to playing old games. If you want the latest games, then you have to pay to keep up with the latest technology.
[quote name='TeacherPHD' date='18 February 2012 - 11:19 AM' timestamp='1329538758' post='1371012']

its not silly to assume PCI will survive any longer than did AGP..Mainboard manufactures along with all the other componets manufactures ALSO REJOICED knowing the checks in the mail...they intentially make it so you MUST purchase all new hardware just for a PCI express card..It won't be long before they phase out PCI Express with something differen't...i figure around 8-10 years it will be... "see ya PCI Express" make way for change...and the beat goes on.





Indeed, and that beat is called progress. If something better than PCI Express comes along then of course it will replace it. Why is that a problem? And progress is not free, you have to pay for it. If you don't want to pay for progress, then stick to playing old games. If you want the latest games, then you have to pay to keep up with the latest technology.

CPU: Intel Core i5-2550K @4.4GHz
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RAM: 2 x 4GB Visipro PC3-12800 (1.5V @933MHz)
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#12
Posted 02/18/2012 05:59 AM   
[quote name='Ital' date='18 February 2012 - 12:59 AM' timestamp='1329544783' post='1371040']
Indeed, and that beat is called progress. If something better than PCI Express comes along then of course it will replace it. Why is that a problem? And progress is not free, you have to pay for it. If you don't want to pay for progress, then stick to playing old games. If you want the latest games, then you have to pay to keep up with the latest technology.
[/quote]


Its not a problem..its an adventure..lol..the adventure starts when you spend a Grand or more for a system thats outdated as soon as you click the submitt button...lol...thats an adventure...trying to upgrade ...having issues with hardware...software..pulling your hair out just because your game crashes...haha

But the truth lies with common sense...alot of new games people have trouble with are corrupted...its not the computer hardware ...not the video cards...not the memory...its the games that lack the intel to get r done..

So it really don't matter what hardware you use when you have a bad set of instructions thats programmed in the game...its the game's fault...the programmers of game software know better and will send ya on a wild-Goose chase saying its your fault...(your computer)...but its not...
[quote name='Ital' date='18 February 2012 - 12:59 AM' timestamp='1329544783' post='1371040']

Indeed, and that beat is called progress. If something better than PCI Express comes along then of course it will replace it. Why is that a problem? And progress is not free, you have to pay for it. If you don't want to pay for progress, then stick to playing old games. If you want the latest games, then you have to pay to keep up with the latest technology.







Its not a problem..its an adventure..lol..the adventure starts when you spend a Grand or more for a system thats outdated as soon as you click the submitt button...lol...thats an adventure...trying to upgrade ...having issues with hardware...software..pulling your hair out just because your game crashes...haha



But the truth lies with common sense...alot of new games people have trouble with are corrupted...its not the computer hardware ...not the video cards...not the memory...its the games that lack the intel to get r done..



So it really don't matter what hardware you use when you have a bad set of instructions thats programmed in the game...its the game's fault...the programmers of game software know better and will send ya on a wild-Goose chase saying its your fault...(your computer)...but its not...

#13
Posted 02/18/2012 06:32 AM   
[quote name='TeacherPHD' date='17 February 2012 - 05:46 PM' timestamp='1329500808' post='1370798']
PCI was a slot upgrade ...first there's IDE slot then PCI then AGP..now its PCI again.
[/quote]

Don't be mistaken here. They have not gone back to PCI.

PCI and PCIe are not the same thing at all. It's really a case of bad naming (never seen that before!). PCI is (was) a parallel bus technology. PCIe is a serial bus that can have up to 16 lanes, each of which is approximately 4 times faster than PCI. I'd call that progress. And, if you're still using a motherboard that has no PCIe slots, I'd say you've had your money's worth from it!
[quote name='TeacherPHD' date='17 February 2012 - 05:46 PM' timestamp='1329500808' post='1370798']

PCI was a slot upgrade ...first there's IDE slot then PCI then AGP..now its PCI again.





Don't be mistaken here. They have not gone back to PCI.



PCI and PCIe are not the same thing at all. It's really a case of bad naming (never seen that before!). PCI is (was) a parallel bus technology. PCIe is a serial bus that can have up to 16 lanes, each of which is approximately 4 times faster than PCI. I'd call that progress. And, if you're still using a motherboard that has no PCIe slots, I'd say you've had your money's worth from it!

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#14
Posted 02/18/2012 02:15 PM   
[quote name='Discordia' date='18 February 2012 - 09:15 AM' timestamp='1329574500' post='1371107']
Don't be mistaken here. They have not gone back to PCI.

PCI and PCIe are not the same thing at all. It's really a case of bad naming (never seen that before!). PCI is (was) a parallel bus technology. PCIe is a serial bus that can have up to 16 lanes, each of which is approximately 4 times faster than PCI. I'd call that progress. And, if you're still using a motherboard that has no PCIe slots, I'd say you've had your money's worth from it!
[/quote]

LOL...Yeah this old board's still kickin...just reciently my 64 meg AGP Card finally gave out..it was a oldie from the 90's with the nvidia chipset..i had that baby for well over 10 years so i upgraded to a techie 500 meg nvidia AGP..haha...350 mhz processor...same as the oldie...lol...

but really that old 64 meg AGP card played alot of DOS and Windows games in its time ..i was sadened when i trashed it..lol

[b]what brings me here[/b][i][/i]...i was lookin for opengl stuff for my card..but i juess the card can't do opengl..i think my old 64 meg card did...

i downloaded that software from this site..the free developer software to make games...upon install i got a error message saying (ionic.zip) failed and the install shut down..

now i find myself lost here in these threads,..lol...all because i want ta play but not pay...
[quote name='Discordia' date='18 February 2012 - 09:15 AM' timestamp='1329574500' post='1371107']

Don't be mistaken here. They have not gone back to PCI.



PCI and PCIe are not the same thing at all. It's really a case of bad naming (never seen that before!). PCI is (was) a parallel bus technology. PCIe is a serial bus that can have up to 16 lanes, each of which is approximately 4 times faster than PCI. I'd call that progress. And, if you're still using a motherboard that has no PCIe slots, I'd say you've had your money's worth from it!





LOL...Yeah this old board's still kickin...just reciently my 64 meg AGP Card finally gave out..it was a oldie from the 90's with the nvidia chipset..i had that baby for well over 10 years so i upgraded to a techie 500 meg nvidia AGP..haha...350 mhz processor...same as the oldie...lol...



but really that old 64 meg AGP card played alot of DOS and Windows games in its time ..i was sadened when i trashed it..lol



what brings me here[i][/i]...i was lookin for opengl stuff for my card..but i juess the card can't do opengl..i think my old 64 meg card did...



i downloaded that software from this site..the free developer software to make games...upon install i got a error message saying (ionic.zip) failed and the install shut down..



now i find myself lost here in these threads,..lol...all because i want ta play but not pay...

#15
Posted 02/18/2012 03:17 PM   
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