60Hz or 120Hz for PC gaming ?
I'm sure this question was posted before (no doubt about it), but I haven't found any recent threads on the subject.

I'm building a brand new rig (below) and I now need to pick a good monitor for it. I would first need to know if I'm looking for a 60Hz or 120Hz display.
The rig will be gaming only dedicated.

[SIZE="1"][B]CPU:[/B] i7 2600K
[B]GPU:[/B] AMD Radeon HD 7970 CF
[B]Hard Drive:[/B] SSD SATA3 160GB
[B]Pw supply:[/B] Corsair HX1050
[B]Memory:[/B] 8 GB (2x4) DDR3 1600 MHz
[B]Mobo:[/B] ASUS P8Z68-V/GEN3
[B]OS:[/B] win 7 64-bit
[/SIZE]
I'm sure this question was posted before (no doubt about it), but I haven't found any recent threads on the subject.



I'm building a brand new rig (below) and I now need to pick a good monitor for it. I would first need to know if I'm looking for a 60Hz or 120Hz display.

The rig will be gaming only dedicated.



CPU: i7 2600K

GPU: AMD Radeon HD 7970 CF

Hard Drive: SSD SATA3 160GB

Pw supply: Corsair HX1050

Memory: 8 GB (2x4) DDR3 1600 MHz

Mobo: ASUS P8Z68-V/GEN3

OS: win 7 64-bit

#1
Posted 01/25/2012 02:23 AM   
Well depends on what you want to buy. I had a 24" 3D 120hz (real 120 frames per second) monitor.

Now I have a 120 hz hdtv that only does 60 fps. hmmmmmmmm.

You might go a real nice plasma.. but if you want the true frames per second. You will have to do some research on what models actually do it.
Well depends on what you want to buy. I had a 24" 3D 120hz (real 120 frames per second) monitor.



Now I have a 120 hz hdtv that only does 60 fps. hmmmmmmmm.



You might go a real nice plasma.. but if you want the true frames per second. You will have to do some research on what models actually do it.

#2
Posted 01/25/2012 03:10 AM   
Save your money, get this, 2ms response time, LED, 24", Samsung: $199.00

http://www.tigerdirect.com/applications/SearchTools/item-details.asp?EdpNo=127045&CatId=5469
Save your money, get this, 2ms response time, LED, 24", Samsung: $199.00



http://www.tigerdirect.com/applications/SearchTools/item-details.asp?EdpNo=127045&CatId=5469

Intel Core i7 X 980 3.33GHz @ 3.3 GHz

eVGA X58 Classified 4-Way SLI motherboard

HAF-X Case, Corsair H80 CPU Liquid Cooler

12GB System RAM

EVGA NVIDIA GeForce GTX 480

KingWin Mach 1 ATX 1220-Watt Power Supply

Western Digital VelociRaptor 10000 RPM hdd

#3
Posted 01/25/2012 03:37 AM   
[quote name='pancakepaddle' date='25 January 2012 - 03:10 AM' timestamp='1327461040' post='1360202']
Now I have a 120 hz hdtv that only does 60 fps. hmmmmmmmm.
[/quote]

That's because it's not a true 120Hz display. No HDTV's are truly 120Hz, as they just interpolate black frames in between the actual frames to create smoother motion during action scenes. Note that Plasma displays still rule the roost when it comes to fast action scenes, even if they don't technically refresh at 120Hz. Plasma tech is a whole different animal though...

The newer "3D vision ready" LCD monitors are true 120Hz displays. That said, they're all crappy TN panels that I wouldn't buy, (LOL).

To the OP: If all you care about is gaming and you're always going to be sitting directly in front of your monitor, go with a true 120Hz display. The do offer smoother gameplay and less input lag. However, if you care about color accuracy/uniformity, viewing angles, image consistency, or backlight uniformity, be warned that these 120Hz displays will not perform well in these areas. These things probably aren't very important to you overall. I'm just helping you to make an informed decision.
[quote name='pancakepaddle' date='25 January 2012 - 03:10 AM' timestamp='1327461040' post='1360202']

Now I have a 120 hz hdtv that only does 60 fps. hmmmmmmmm.





That's because it's not a true 120Hz display. No HDTV's are truly 120Hz, as they just interpolate black frames in between the actual frames to create smoother motion during action scenes. Note that Plasma displays still rule the roost when it comes to fast action scenes, even if they don't technically refresh at 120Hz. Plasma tech is a whole different animal though...



The newer "3D vision ready" LCD monitors are true 120Hz displays. That said, they're all crappy TN panels that I wouldn't buy, (LOL).



To the OP: If all you care about is gaming and you're always going to be sitting directly in front of your monitor, go with a true 120Hz display. The do offer smoother gameplay and less input lag. However, if you care about color accuracy/uniformity, viewing angles, image consistency, or backlight uniformity, be warned that these 120Hz displays will not perform well in these areas. These things probably aren't very important to you overall. I'm just helping you to make an informed decision.

EVGA E758 A1 X58 // Core i7 920@4Ghz // OCZ Platinum DDR3 1600 // EVGA GTX 670 SLI // Seasonic X Series Gold 1050w // Corsair 800D // Dual Dell Ultrasharp U2410 displays // Dell Ultrasharp 2408WFP

#4
Posted 01/25/2012 08:07 AM   
TV's actually interpolate by creating new frames based on the current source frame and inserting it between source frames, artificially boosting (2x or 4x) frame rates and creating a smoother display, they don't insert blank frames. It's why there 120hz, 240hz, 100hz, 200hz etc. technologies introduce artifacts.

It's very beneficial for some things like N64 games which run at abysmal frame rates, so long as you can ignore the artifacts introduced by the technology :) (Makes my copy of Zelda: Ocarina of Time run look as though it's running silky smooth... as well as numerous PS2 games)
TV's actually interpolate by creating new frames based on the current source frame and inserting it between source frames, artificially boosting (2x or 4x) frame rates and creating a smoother display, they don't insert blank frames. It's why there 120hz, 240hz, 100hz, 200hz etc. technologies introduce artifacts.



It's very beneficial for some things like N64 games which run at abysmal frame rates, so long as you can ignore the artifacts introduced by the technology :) (Makes my copy of Zelda: Ocarina of Time run look as though it's running silky smooth... as well as numerous PS2 games)

Custom built PC | Intel Core i7 920 @ 2.66GHZ | ASUS P6T Motherboard | 6GB DDR3 1600 RAM | 2x 500GB SATA2 HDD's | Auzentech Forte S/C | Gainward Geforce GTX 560Ti "Phantom 2" 2048MB | Windows 7 Home Premium: Service Pack 1 - x64 | Thermaltake 750watt Toughpower Power Supply | Thermaltake Armor+ MX case.

#5
Posted 01/25/2012 10:05 AM   
[quote name='BobbyNow' date='25 January 2012 - 04:37 AM' timestamp='1327462672' post='1360212']
Save your money, get this, 2ms response time, LED, 24", Samsung: $199.00

http://www.tigerdirect.com/applications/SearchTools/item-details.asp?EdpNo=127045&CatId=5469
[/quote]

i bought the 22" version of this for my brother. it's utter crap.
[quote name='BobbyNow' date='25 January 2012 - 04:37 AM' timestamp='1327462672' post='1360212']

Save your money, get this, 2ms response time, LED, 24", Samsung: $199.00



http://www.tigerdirect.com/applications/SearchTools/item-details.asp?EdpNo=127045&CatId=5469





i bought the 22" version of this for my brother. it's utter crap.
#6
Posted 01/25/2012 11:05 AM   
[quote name='Franpa' date='25 January 2012 - 10:05 AM' timestamp='1327485910' post='1360312']
TV's actually interpolate by creating new frames based on the current source frame and inserting it between source frames, artificially boosting (2x or 4x) frame rates and creating a smoother display, they don't insert blank frames. It's why there 120hz, 240hz, 100hz, 200hz etc. technologies introduce artifacts.
[/quote]

Yes, they do insert black frames. Google Black Frame Insertion (or BFI) if you'd like to see what I'm talking about. I should rephrase though, because not all manufacturers use this implementation. Virtually all of the methods used are very similar to BFI though.

I believe you are actually referring to what LG calls "Tru-motion plus" (Samsung calls it Auto-motion plus), which is a pseudo-120Hz mode that's sometimes called "motion interpolation". This technology works very similarly to BFI, except that it inserts "estimated" frames (the new frames you referred to) in between the actual frames to eliminate judder (it's primary purpose). Motion interpolation is really just an evolution of BFI and should not be confused with a true 120Hz refresh rate.
[quote name='Franpa' date='25 January 2012 - 10:05 AM' timestamp='1327485910' post='1360312']

TV's actually interpolate by creating new frames based on the current source frame and inserting it between source frames, artificially boosting (2x or 4x) frame rates and creating a smoother display, they don't insert blank frames. It's why there 120hz, 240hz, 100hz, 200hz etc. technologies introduce artifacts.





Yes, they do insert black frames. Google Black Frame Insertion (or BFI) if you'd like to see what I'm talking about. I should rephrase though, because not all manufacturers use this implementation. Virtually all of the methods used are very similar to BFI though.



I believe you are actually referring to what LG calls "Tru-motion plus" (Samsung calls it Auto-motion plus), which is a pseudo-120Hz mode that's sometimes called "motion interpolation". This technology works very similarly to BFI, except that it inserts "estimated" frames (the new frames you referred to) in between the actual frames to eliminate judder (it's primary purpose). Motion interpolation is really just an evolution of BFI and should not be confused with a true 120Hz refresh rate.

EVGA E758 A1 X58 // Core i7 920@4Ghz // OCZ Platinum DDR3 1600 // EVGA GTX 670 SLI // Seasonic X Series Gold 1050w // Corsair 800D // Dual Dell Ultrasharp U2410 displays // Dell Ultrasharp 2408WFP

#7
Posted 01/25/2012 12:36 PM   
[quote name='slamscaper' date='25 January 2012 - 03:07 AM' timestamp='1327478820' post='1360283']
That's because it's not a true 120Hz display. No HDTV's are truly 120Hz, as they just interpolate black frames in between the actual frames to create smoother motion during action scenes. Note that Plasma displays still rule the roost when it comes to fast action scenes, even if they don't technically refresh at 120Hz. Plasma tech is a whole different animal though...

The newer "3D vision ready" LCD monitors are true 120Hz displays. That said, they're all crappy TN panels that I wouldn't buy, (LOL).

To the OP: If all you care about is gaming and you're always going to be sitting directly in front of your monitor, go with a true 120Hz display. The do offer smoother gameplay and less input lag. However, if you care about color accuracy/uniformity, viewing angles, image consistency, or backlight uniformity, be warned that these 120Hz displays will not perform well in these areas. These things probably aren't very important to you overall. I'm just helping you to make an informed decision.
[/quote]

Thanks Slam,

(my english suck sorry bout that) (I don't...)
Actually yes, the rig this monitor will be plugged to will be for PC gaming only. Almost not even web browsing.. (no data storage, no movie watching no nothing else than gaming).

BUT, I do care about image quality.. Maybe not color accuracy (i.e I don't care that much if a bird is a big more blue than it should be).
Viewing angle must also, at least, be good even if I'm not perfectly in a straight line in front of my screeen (I often like to be lazy and lay on my chair.. :P)

I like when color are vivid and deep, cristal clear and of course the screen MUST be good at dealing with black and darker images.
Maybe what I'm looking for is a 60Hz, who knows... I don't.. That's why I'm here :) I think you Slam can feel and "seize" what I'm looking for. So I trust your advices and will relay on them to make my final choice.

N.B, I'm not sure what image consistency, backlight uniformity actually are however.
[quote name='slamscaper' date='25 January 2012 - 03:07 AM' timestamp='1327478820' post='1360283']

That's because it's not a true 120Hz display. No HDTV's are truly 120Hz, as they just interpolate black frames in between the actual frames to create smoother motion during action scenes. Note that Plasma displays still rule the roost when it comes to fast action scenes, even if they don't technically refresh at 120Hz. Plasma tech is a whole different animal though...



The newer "3D vision ready" LCD monitors are true 120Hz displays. That said, they're all crappy TN panels that I wouldn't buy, (LOL).



To the OP: If all you care about is gaming and you're always going to be sitting directly in front of your monitor, go with a true 120Hz display. The do offer smoother gameplay and less input lag. However, if you care about color accuracy/uniformity, viewing angles, image consistency, or backlight uniformity, be warned that these 120Hz displays will not perform well in these areas. These things probably aren't very important to you overall. I'm just helping you to make an informed decision.





Thanks Slam,



(my english suck sorry bout that) (I don't...)

Actually yes, the rig this monitor will be plugged to will be for PC gaming only. Almost not even web browsing.. (no data storage, no movie watching no nothing else than gaming).



BUT, I do care about image quality.. Maybe not color accuracy (i.e I don't care that much if a bird is a big more blue than it should be).

Viewing angle must also, at least, be good even if I'm not perfectly in a straight line in front of my screeen (I often like to be lazy and lay on my chair.. :P)



I like when color are vivid and deep, cristal clear and of course the screen MUST be good at dealing with black and darker images.

Maybe what I'm looking for is a 60Hz, who knows... I don't.. That's why I'm here :) I think you Slam can feel and "seize" what I'm looking for. So I trust your advices and will relay on them to make my final choice.



N.B, I'm not sure what image consistency, backlight uniformity actually are however.

#8
Posted 01/25/2012 06:07 PM   
Well, I'll be honest. I think the current crop of 120Hz monitors are overpriced for what you're getting in terms of 2D performance. I will say that Acer's [url="http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16824009222"] GD235HZbid[/url] model is not that bad of a deal. This monitor performs excellent for gaming and the price is more reasonable than other 120Hz offerings. That said, this monitor uses a TN panel and the viewing angles are going to be atrocious. When sitting directly in front of it, the PQ will be acceptable in most situations, but even then some color shifting will be noticeable.

Taking the 120Hz refresh rate out of the equation, I would recommend [url="http://accessories.us.dell.com/sna/productdetail.aspx?c=us&l=en&cs=04&sku=320-2807&baynote_bnrank=1&baynote_irrank=0&~ck=baynoteSearch"]Dell's U2312HM[/url]. The LED backlit IPS display is even cheaper than the Acer I mentioned above, but will offer much better image quality and viewing angles. While it's not quite as responsive as a 120Hz display, it can still handle games and movies admirably. This is a very good display at a rock bottom price.

If you wanted to step it up a notch and drop the cash on a 60Hz display that's even better than the U2312HM, HP's ZR2440w is quite simply one of (if not [i]the[/i]) best 24" displays currently available. It scores high marks in pretty much every aspect. It features W-LED lighting and an e-IPS panel, which means it has great black depth and viewing angles. As an added bonus, it's pixel response time is impressive and the input lag is low (10ms on average, which isn't even one frame of lag compared to a CRT). You really couldn't go wrong with this monitor, unless 120Hz and 3D is a necessity. The drawback to this model is that it's a bit more expensive than your standard 24" monitor. You do get what you pay for when it comes to monitors though. [url="http://www.provantage.com/hewlett-packard-hp-xw477a8-aba~7HEWA1AU.htm"]Provantage[/url] always seems to have the best price on it. Right now, they're one of the only retailers offering it for under $400 USD.
Well, I'll be honest. I think the current crop of 120Hz monitors are overpriced for what you're getting in terms of 2D performance. I will say that Acer's GD235HZbid model is not that bad of a deal. This monitor performs excellent for gaming and the price is more reasonable than other 120Hz offerings. That said, this monitor uses a TN panel and the viewing angles are going to be atrocious. When sitting directly in front of it, the PQ will be acceptable in most situations, but even then some color shifting will be noticeable.



Taking the 120Hz refresh rate out of the equation, I would recommend Dell's U2312HM. The LED backlit IPS display is even cheaper than the Acer I mentioned above, but will offer much better image quality and viewing angles. While it's not quite as responsive as a 120Hz display, it can still handle games and movies admirably. This is a very good display at a rock bottom price.



If you wanted to step it up a notch and drop the cash on a 60Hz display that's even better than the U2312HM, HP's ZR2440w is quite simply one of (if not the) best 24" displays currently available. It scores high marks in pretty much every aspect. It features W-LED lighting and an e-IPS panel, which means it has great black depth and viewing angles. As an added bonus, it's pixel response time is impressive and the input lag is low (10ms on average, which isn't even one frame of lag compared to a CRT). You really couldn't go wrong with this monitor, unless 120Hz and 3D is a necessity. The drawback to this model is that it's a bit more expensive than your standard 24" monitor. You do get what you pay for when it comes to monitors though. Provantage always seems to have the best price on it. Right now, they're one of the only retailers offering it for under $400 USD.

EVGA E758 A1 X58 // Core i7 920@4Ghz // OCZ Platinum DDR3 1600 // EVGA GTX 670 SLI // Seasonic X Series Gold 1050w // Corsair 800D // Dual Dell Ultrasharp U2410 displays // Dell Ultrasharp 2408WFP

#9
Posted 01/26/2012 08:14 AM   
[quote name='slamscaper' date='25 January 2012 - 10:36 PM' timestamp='1327495012' post='1360352']
I believe you are actually referring to what LG calls "Tru-motion plus" (Samsung calls it Auto-motion plus), which is a pseudo-120Hz mode that's sometimes called "motion interpolation". This technology works very similarly to BFI, except that it inserts "estimated" frames (the new frames you referred to) in between the actual frames to eliminate judder (it's primary purpose). Motion interpolation is really just an evolution of BFI and should not be confused with a true 120Hz refresh rate.
[/quote]
Yep that is what I was referring to, it's pretty much what all recent Sony, Samsung, LG etc. major brand manufacturers use since at least 2008~ for TV's. Maybe there cheaper range use BFI or there TV/PC combo displays. BFI looks... interesting to say the least, is it meant to eliminate the differences between how we interpret LCD displays and CRT displays?
[quote name='slamscaper' date='25 January 2012 - 10:36 PM' timestamp='1327495012' post='1360352']

I believe you are actually referring to what LG calls "Tru-motion plus" (Samsung calls it Auto-motion plus), which is a pseudo-120Hz mode that's sometimes called "motion interpolation". This technology works very similarly to BFI, except that it inserts "estimated" frames (the new frames you referred to) in between the actual frames to eliminate judder (it's primary purpose). Motion interpolation is really just an evolution of BFI and should not be confused with a true 120Hz refresh rate.



Yep that is what I was referring to, it's pretty much what all recent Sony, Samsung, LG etc. major brand manufacturers use since at least 2008~ for TV's. Maybe there cheaper range use BFI or there TV/PC combo displays. BFI looks... interesting to say the least, is it meant to eliminate the differences between how we interpret LCD displays and CRT displays?

Custom built PC | Intel Core i7 920 @ 2.66GHZ | ASUS P6T Motherboard | 6GB DDR3 1600 RAM | 2x 500GB SATA2 HDD's | Auzentech Forte S/C | Gainward Geforce GTX 560Ti "Phantom 2" 2048MB | Windows 7 Home Premium: Service Pack 1 - x64 | Thermaltake 750watt Toughpower Power Supply | Thermaltake Armor+ MX case.

#10
Posted 01/26/2012 10:30 AM   
[i]For the best IQ in terms of color accuracy you can't beat an IPS LCD panel such as the Dell U3011 (2560x1600). It is capable of much higher native resolution, but requires a beefy hardware configuration, especially for newer titles. However, near flawless color production can be achieved with certain TN panels with the correct calibration. For example: "Theater Mode" on the ASUS 27" VE278Q with Contrast=75, Saturation=45, Bright=100, Skin Tone= Reddish, Sharpness=60, Trace Free=100, ASCR= On, Color Temperatures G=100, R=100, B=100. I currently have one on my alternate rig using the aforementioned configuration, and it produces the near identical color palette and IQ as my U3011 IPS. The issue with 120 refresh monitors is two things, one the majority cater to 3D Environments more so than traditional 2D, which in turn makes the 2D Visual quality more degraded in contrast to panels that are native 2D. Two, often times 60Refresh is the format which games are built on (V-Sync included), thus this renders a higher format inconsistent for the game, which is unlike that of a CRT at say 85 refresh.

Displays are a matter of taste, but with the correct calibration you can achieve ideal conditions for a game, such as I previously described. If you want 3DVision 120 refresh is the correct path for monitors that support the technology, if you want 2D gaming at the highest level of fidelity an IPS or a TN panel with 2MS or higher with a high gray scale such as the ASUS VE278Q (1920x1080).

This is just from my experience. [/i]

[b]EDIT:[/b] [i]Results may vary; I use Adobe utilities for color correction and calibration. [/i]

-Hooks
For the best IQ in terms of color accuracy you can't beat an IPS LCD panel such as the Dell U3011 (2560x1600). It is capable of much higher native resolution, but requires a beefy hardware configuration, especially for newer titles. However, near flawless color production can be achieved with certain TN panels with the correct calibration. For example: "Theater Mode" on the ASUS 27" VE278Q with Contrast=75, Saturation=45, Bright=100, Skin Tone= Reddish, Sharpness=60, Trace Free=100, ASCR= On, Color Temperatures G=100, R=100, B=100. I currently have one on my alternate rig using the aforementioned configuration, and it produces the near identical color palette and IQ as my U3011 IPS. The issue with 120 refresh monitors is two things, one the majority cater to 3D Environments more so than traditional 2D, which in turn makes the 2D Visual quality more degraded in contrast to panels that are native 2D. Two, often times 60Refresh is the format which games are built on (V-Sync included), thus this renders a higher format inconsistent for the game, which is unlike that of a CRT at say 85 refresh.



Displays are a matter of taste, but with the correct calibration you can achieve ideal conditions for a game, such as I previously described. If you want 3DVision 120 refresh is the correct path for monitors that support the technology, if you want 2D gaming at the highest level of fidelity an IPS or a TN panel with 2MS or higher with a high gray scale such as the ASUS VE278Q (1920x1080).



This is just from my experience.




EDIT: Results may vary; I use Adobe utilities for color correction and calibration.



-Hooks

QUOTE (The Professor @ Oct 31 2010, 04:59 AM)

*Jeremy Clarkson face*



So we must hand it over to our tame PC tweaker. Some say he sticky tapes a block of uranium to his dinner before eating it and that he sucks moisture out of ducks. All we know is, he's called Hooks.



"Eye of the Storm" Window Mod Tutorial <> "Inside Crysis 2" <> Top Tier Water-Blocks 2011 <> SSD Unlimited Storage Tutorial

#11
Posted 01/26/2012 12:32 PM   
Sorry for ressurecting this months' old thread but I somehow found myself here and urge takes me to recommend this: http://www.overclock.net/t/1232084/yamakasi-catleap-q270-100hz-guaranteed
I do not own one, but according to reports it does 120Hz @ 1440p /shock.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':shock:' /> all the while being an IPS monitor (best colors). Only "problem" is that you have to use an nVidia card and be willing to overclock the monitor, but since we are at nVidia forums either of those must not be much of a problem, are they?

Who would have thought, the holy trinity of all monitors' features in one -relatively cheap- solution.
3D/Smoothness (120hz), Colors (IPS) and 4Mpixel resolution (1440p)...
Sorry for ressurecting this months' old thread but I somehow found myself here and urge takes me to recommend this: http://www.overclock.net/t/1232084/yamakasi-catleap-q270-100hz-guaranteed

I do not own one, but according to reports it does 120Hz @ 1440p /shock.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':shock:' /> all the while being an IPS monitor (best colors). Only "problem" is that you have to use an nVidia card and be willing to overclock the monitor, but since we are at nVidia forums either of those must not be much of a problem, are they?



Who would have thought, the holy trinity of all monitors' features in one -relatively cheap- solution.

3D/Smoothness (120hz), Colors (IPS) and 4Mpixel resolution (1440p)...

#12
Posted 04/28/2012 01:22 PM   
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