How do I set up watercooling for dual GTX 460s?
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Hey guys. I recently installed my first liquid cooling system. It is currently cooling just the CPU, but I am upgrading so I can liquid cool my two GTX 460s as well. My question is, how? Do I split the incoming water three ways and send one tube to each component (CPU, 460, 460). Or do I go through the CPU, out to the first 460, out to the second 460, to the pump/reservoir, back to the CPU. I ask because I figured the water would be hot coming out of the CPU and it wouldn't make sense to go directly to other parts that need to be cooled. On the other hand, splitting the water 3 ways seems like it would weaken the flow enough that all three parts wouldn't be cooled very well. So neither system seems quite right. Am I missing something?
Hey guys. I recently installed my first liquid cooling system. It is currently cooling just the CPU, but I am upgrading so I can liquid cool my two GTX 460s as well. My question is, how? Do I split the incoming water three ways and send one tube to each component (CPU, 460, 460). Or do I go through the CPU, out to the first 460, out to the second 460, to the pump/reservoir, back to the CPU. I ask because I figured the water would be hot coming out of the CPU and it wouldn't make sense to go directly to other parts that need to be cooled. On the other hand, splitting the water 3 ways seems like it would weaken the flow enough that all three parts wouldn't be cooled very well. So neither system seems quite right. Am I missing something?

"The true measure of a man is how he treats someone who can do him absolutely no good."

- Samuel Johnson



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Intel Core i5 750 @ 4.0 GHz 1.270 V

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8 GB DDR3 G.SKILL Ripjaw RAM @1522 MHz 7-7-7-20

2 x GTX 460 1GB Stock in SLI

OCZ Vertex 2 40GB SSD for Boot Drive

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#1
Posted 01/05/2012 09:09 PM   
I used to think the same way, then someone with a bit more knowledge than me explained how it works:

The heat generating components heat the liquid while the radiator(s) cool the liquid - this ends up with the entire loop attaining a temperature, not that it goes in cold, gets warm and then the rad cools it again. That may not be the best explanation; so hopefully someone will add more detail.

As for your question, you need to consider many things with this idea - 2 that spring to mind are:
1. Have you sufficient cooling (adding two GPUs will add to the heat generation and your current rad may not be able to cool enough - if that's the case you'd need another one or two)
2. Throughput / flow rate, more components = more work for the pump to do.

I'm not that up to speed with liquid cooling - others are and no doubt will add to this. However, I'd suggest listing all the parts - so people can help advise :)
I used to think the same way, then someone with a bit more knowledge than me explained how it works:



The heat generating components heat the liquid while the radiator(s) cool the liquid - this ends up with the entire loop attaining a temperature, not that it goes in cold, gets warm and then the rad cools it again. That may not be the best explanation; so hopefully someone will add more detail.



As for your question, you need to consider many things with this idea - 2 that spring to mind are:

1. Have you sufficient cooling (adding two GPUs will add to the heat generation and your current rad may not be able to cool enough - if that's the case you'd need another one or two)

2. Throughput / flow rate, more components = more work for the pump to do.



I'm not that up to speed with liquid cooling - others are and no doubt will add to this. However, I'd suggest listing all the parts - so people can help advise :)

I knew I hadn't imagined it... now it's deleted = people will never know what I hadn't imagined...

"Programming today is a race between software engineers striving to build bigger and better idiot-proof programs, and the Universe trying to produce bigger and better idiots. So far, the Universe is winning."



"Never, ever, argue with an idiot. They'll drag you down to their level and beat you with experience"


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#2
Posted 01/06/2012 02:55 AM   
I have an XSPC RS240 Radiator. It's decent, or so I hear. I've read that it is enough to do a CPU and a graphics card. How much of a difference will adding another graphics card make? And I have a 750 lph pump. Is that strong enough?
I have an XSPC RS240 Radiator. It's decent, or so I hear. I've read that it is enough to do a CPU and a graphics card. How much of a difference will adding another graphics card make? And I have a 750 lph pump. Is that strong enough?

"The true measure of a man is how he treats someone who can do him absolutely no good."

- Samuel Johnson



Image



Intel Core i5 750 @ 4.0 GHz 1.270 V

Custom Liquid Cooling Setup

8 GB DDR3 G.SKILL Ripjaw RAM @1522 MHz 7-7-7-20

2 x GTX 460 1GB Stock in SLI

OCZ Vertex 2 40GB SSD for Boot Drive

Western Digital Black 640 GB Hard Drive

MSI P55-GD65 SLI/CrossfireX Motherboard

Sony Optiarc DVD+-RW Disk Drive

Corsair 750W PSU

Acer P235H 23-inch Monitor

Cooler Master Storm Scout Chassis

Razer DeathAdder Mouse

Windows 7 64-Bit

#3
Posted 01/06/2012 07:04 PM   
Ok goto [url="http://forums.nvidia.com/index.php?showtopic=146197&st=120"]This page [/url] and scroll down, you will se how I water cooled my 460s, if you have reference cards there is a full block available but if you have non ref' (I think the 1GB cards are non ref'), you have to use these blocks and cool the vrms passivly with stick on heat sinks.

You may be on the limit of a 240 adding the second gpu, try it and see how your temps go, a 360 maybe a better option.
Ok goto This page and scroll down, you will se how I water cooled my 460s, if you have reference cards there is a full block available but if you have non ref' (I think the 1GB cards are non ref'), you have to use these blocks and cool the vrms passivly with stick on heat sinks.



You may be on the limit of a 240 adding the second gpu, try it and see how your temps go, a 360 maybe a better option.

Image







Asus Rampage III Extreme, Intel i7 980X @4.6 ghz 24/7 1.39v, 6 GB Dom GT CL7, Tri channel, EK'd Asus GTX 680 Sli , Displays : 3 X Hanns-G HG281D 2D Surround, Case, Xigmatek Elysium, Corsair AX 1200W, Win 7 64, 2 x Crucial C300 128gb 6gb/s SSDs Raid 0, 2 x 300 gig WD velociraptors Raid 0, 64 GB Crucial M4 non raid boot drive 6 g/bs, Asus Xonar DX2 Sound, Roccat Kave 5:1 Headset, Track IR Pro, Noctua and TFC Triebwewrk fans controled by Lamptron FC6 black and Zalman ZM-FC1Plus black, Roccat Isku K/B, Steelseries Sensei mouse, Logitech G27 wheel, Custom water cooling, EK FB RE3 full board block , Black Ice GTX 480 Extreme Quad, Black Ice GTX Extreme 360, both rads running TFC Triebwerk mid speeds, Dual loop 3 D5 pumps.

#4
Posted 01/06/2012 07:33 PM   
OK. What is an acceptable temp for a watercooling setup? How much higher do you think the temps will be for my processor if I add two graphics cards in without adding the extra radiator? I probably won't end up watercooling the 460s if I have to upgrade that. I don't really want to spend a bunch more money to cool them. I already have the blocks.
OK. What is an acceptable temp for a watercooling setup? How much higher do you think the temps will be for my processor if I add two graphics cards in without adding the extra radiator? I probably won't end up watercooling the 460s if I have to upgrade that. I don't really want to spend a bunch more money to cool them. I already have the blocks.

"The true measure of a man is how he treats someone who can do him absolutely no good."

- Samuel Johnson



Image



Intel Core i5 750 @ 4.0 GHz 1.270 V

Custom Liquid Cooling Setup

8 GB DDR3 G.SKILL Ripjaw RAM @1522 MHz 7-7-7-20

2 x GTX 460 1GB Stock in SLI

OCZ Vertex 2 40GB SSD for Boot Drive

Western Digital Black 640 GB Hard Drive

MSI P55-GD65 SLI/CrossfireX Motherboard

Sony Optiarc DVD+-RW Disk Drive

Corsair 750W PSU

Acer P235H 23-inch Monitor

Cooler Master Storm Scout Chassis

Razer DeathAdder Mouse

Windows 7 64-Bit

#5
Posted 01/06/2012 07:56 PM   
That is not an easy question to answer, my cpu never gets above 50C nor do my gpus, but think about when the temp of the component will effect performance, a cpu will not start to throttle down until it reaches around 68 73C ish , gpus are designed to run a little hotter and will not be worried until they reach around 75 85C.
W/C setups when done right achieve much lower temps so you can push the clocks, run some intensive benches and then decide if you need better cooling.
That is not an easy question to answer, my cpu never gets above 50C nor do my gpus, but think about when the temp of the component will effect performance, a cpu will not start to throttle down until it reaches around 68 73C ish , gpus are designed to run a little hotter and will not be worried until they reach around 75 85C.

W/C setups when done right achieve much lower temps so you can push the clocks, run some intensive benches and then decide if you need better cooling.

Image







Asus Rampage III Extreme, Intel i7 980X @4.6 ghz 24/7 1.39v, 6 GB Dom GT CL7, Tri channel, EK'd Asus GTX 680 Sli , Displays : 3 X Hanns-G HG281D 2D Surround, Case, Xigmatek Elysium, Corsair AX 1200W, Win 7 64, 2 x Crucial C300 128gb 6gb/s SSDs Raid 0, 2 x 300 gig WD velociraptors Raid 0, 64 GB Crucial M4 non raid boot drive 6 g/bs, Asus Xonar DX2 Sound, Roccat Kave 5:1 Headset, Track IR Pro, Noctua and TFC Triebwewrk fans controled by Lamptron FC6 black and Zalman ZM-FC1Plus black, Roccat Isku K/B, Steelseries Sensei mouse, Logitech G27 wheel, Custom water cooling, EK FB RE3 full board block , Black Ice GTX 480 Extreme Quad, Black Ice GTX Extreme 360, both rads running TFC Triebwerk mid speeds, Dual loop 3 D5 pumps.

#6
Posted 01/07/2012 12:30 AM   
It won't cost too much more to hang a pump-res-rad combo from swiftech off the back of your case. They aren't bad little units either. I've personally used a couple of them for workstations.
It won't cost too much more to hang a pump-res-rad combo from swiftech off the back of your case. They aren't bad little units either. I've personally used a couple of them for workstations.

Done.

#7
Posted 01/07/2012 07:40 AM   
My current setup is letting my CPU get up to around 60C. It idles in the high 20s C. Load temps seem a bit high. I have the radiator hung off the back of my case, with fans pulling air through (fans face away from case). Is there something I have set up wrong?
My current setup is letting my CPU get up to around 60C. It idles in the high 20s C. Load temps seem a bit high. I have the radiator hung off the back of my case, with fans pulling air through (fans face away from case). Is there something I have set up wrong?

"The true measure of a man is how he treats someone who can do him absolutely no good."

- Samuel Johnson



Image



Intel Core i5 750 @ 4.0 GHz 1.270 V

Custom Liquid Cooling Setup

8 GB DDR3 G.SKILL Ripjaw RAM @1522 MHz 7-7-7-20

2 x GTX 460 1GB Stock in SLI

OCZ Vertex 2 40GB SSD for Boot Drive

Western Digital Black 640 GB Hard Drive

MSI P55-GD65 SLI/CrossfireX Motherboard

Sony Optiarc DVD+-RW Disk Drive

Corsair 750W PSU

Acer P235H 23-inch Monitor

Cooler Master Storm Scout Chassis

Razer DeathAdder Mouse

Windows 7 64-Bit

#8
Posted 01/07/2012 03:21 PM   
[quote name='thecomputergeek' date='07 January 2012 - 09:21 AM' timestamp='1325949684' post='1352868']
My current setup is letting my CPU get up to around 60C. It idles in the high 20s C. Load temps seem a bit high. I have the radiator hung off the back of my case, with fans pulling air through (fans face away from case). Is there something I have set up wrong?
[/quote]


If you're loading out at 60C then your rad won't support the additional heat of 2 GPUs. Do you have enough room on the back of your case to get a 4x120mm? With a RAD that size you'll safely be able to run all of that in a single loop.



Also you should be running push/pull with fan shrouds for the best performance.

[quote name='thecomputergeek' date='07 January 2012 - 09:21 AM' timestamp='1325949684' post='1352868']

My current setup is letting my CPU get up to around 60C. It idles in the high 20s C. Load temps seem a bit high. I have the radiator hung off the back of my case, with fans pulling air through (fans face away from case). Is there something I have set up wrong?







If you're loading out at 60C then your rad won't support the additional heat of 2 GPUs. Do you have enough room on the back of your case to get a 4x120mm? With a RAD that size you'll safely be able to run all of that in a single loop.







Also you should be running push/pull with fan shrouds for the best performance.


Done.

#9
Posted 01/07/2012 04:28 PM   
What do you mean by push/pull? As in both sides of the radiator have fans on them? Or that one fan is pushing and the other pulling (both fans attached to one side? And I have enough room for a 3 fan radiator. Dunno about 4. I'll have to measure when I get home from work. How important is airflow for the radiator fans? Do they need to be in a location where they can easily draw air, or can I put them next to the case with the radiator outside that?
What do you mean by push/pull? As in both sides of the radiator have fans on them? Or that one fan is pushing and the other pulling (both fans attached to one side? And I have enough room for a 3 fan radiator. Dunno about 4. I'll have to measure when I get home from work. How important is airflow for the radiator fans? Do they need to be in a location where they can easily draw air, or can I put them next to the case with the radiator outside that?

"The true measure of a man is how he treats someone who can do him absolutely no good."

- Samuel Johnson



Image



Intel Core i5 750 @ 4.0 GHz 1.270 V

Custom Liquid Cooling Setup

8 GB DDR3 G.SKILL Ripjaw RAM @1522 MHz 7-7-7-20

2 x GTX 460 1GB Stock in SLI

OCZ Vertex 2 40GB SSD for Boot Drive

Western Digital Black 640 GB Hard Drive

MSI P55-GD65 SLI/CrossfireX Motherboard

Sony Optiarc DVD+-RW Disk Drive

Corsair 750W PSU

Acer P235H 23-inch Monitor

Cooler Master Storm Scout Chassis

Razer DeathAdder Mouse

Windows 7 64-Bit

#10
Posted 01/07/2012 07:40 PM   
Push pull is where the radiator is placed inbetween 2 banks of fans.
I.e. Fan|Radiator|Fan - the fan's air flow is in the same direction - so that the radiator has air being pushed onto it from one side and pulled through it from the other :)
In your case, with a 240 radiator, that'd be 4 fans /wink.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=';)' />

As for position... you may be better off uploading a picture of your case placement - airflow is needed for good temperature reduction. If your fans end up just recirculating the same warm air, then that's not going to cool as well as if it had cooler air running through.
Push pull is where the radiator is placed inbetween 2 banks of fans.

I.e. Fan|Radiator|Fan - the fan's air flow is in the same direction - so that the radiator has air being pushed onto it from one side and pulled through it from the other :)

In your case, with a 240 radiator, that'd be 4 fans /wink.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=';)' />



As for position... you may be better off uploading a picture of your case placement - airflow is needed for good temperature reduction. If your fans end up just recirculating the same warm air, then that's not going to cool as well as if it had cooler air running through.

I knew I hadn't imagined it... now it's deleted = people will never know what I hadn't imagined...

"Programming today is a race between software engineers striving to build bigger and better idiot-proof programs, and the Universe trying to produce bigger and better idiots. So far, the Universe is winning."



"Never, ever, argue with an idiot. They'll drag you down to their level and beat you with experience"


Image



GPU-Z CPU-Z Ccleaner Driversweeper OCCT

#11
Posted 01/07/2012 08:22 PM   
[quote name='thecomputergeek' date='07 January 2012 - 01:40 PM' timestamp='1325965233' post='1352995']
What do you mean by push/pull? As in both sides of the radiator have fans on them? Or that one fan is pushing and the other pulling (both fans attached to one side? And I have enough room for a 3 fan radiator. Dunno about 4. I'll have to measure when I get home from work. How important is airflow for the radiator fans? Do they need to be in a location where they can easily draw air, or can I put them next to the case with the radiator outside that?
[/quote]

The way liquid cooling works is passing fluid though blocks for the heat to transfer to the fluid. You have to cool that fluid which is why you need a radiator. The lower temps on the parts are due to the increased heat dispersion efficiency, not a reduction in heat energy being given off. You need to cool the liquid so airflow is still important though it is less so when you have bigger radiators. The law of the conservation of energy is still in tact with liquid cooling --the heat has to be dissipated.



Push/pull means that you'd have 2 fans on each fan slot of a radiator with the closest to the tower pushing air through the radiator and the four on the opposite side pulling air through. This adds more fan/cooling power.

A fan mounted directly to the radiator is highly inefficient as there is a "dead spot" where the center of the fan is. A shroud is piece of material (most often another fan you cut the blades, wires and motor out of though you can buy better looking, pre-made ones) that acts as a spacer giving the fans better coverage on the radiator.

You can place your radiator in an external mounting system or use a massive external rad. These look cool and cool better due to the increased radiator space and airflow, but they are often a massive PITA if you LAN or even clean our from under your desk more often than most gamers (my wife would kill me if I didn't.)

My recommendation to you is: Put a 4x120mm rad on a mounting bracket. They're readily available [url="http://www.frozencpu.com/products/9095/ex-rad-159/Koolance_Radiator_Mounting_Bracket_w_Quick-Release_BKT-HX001P.html?tl=g30c95s162"]http://www.frozencpu.com/products/9095/ex-rad-159/Koolance_Radiator_Mounting_Bracket_w_Quick-Release_BKT-HX001P.html?tl=g30c95s162[/url] If you've got clearance under your desk this will easily allow you fit a 4*120mm since you can attach it to the 2nd 120mm fan and maintain stability. You really don't need two separate loops anymore except in extreme circumstances and there is not much difference in running your GPUs in parallel or serial either. Loop order still matters though, so run you loop Pump>CPU>GPUs (in either parallel or serial)>Rad>Res.

Personally I'd add a 3x120mm on the back and then reuse your 2x120mm a second rad between my CPU and GPUs just to drop the delta a tad bit, but one look at the clock speeds in my sig will tell you I'm a little beyond the OCs most people stop at.
[quote name='thecomputergeek' date='07 January 2012 - 01:40 PM' timestamp='1325965233' post='1352995']

What do you mean by push/pull? As in both sides of the radiator have fans on them? Or that one fan is pushing and the other pulling (both fans attached to one side? And I have enough room for a 3 fan radiator. Dunno about 4. I'll have to measure when I get home from work. How important is airflow for the radiator fans? Do they need to be in a location where they can easily draw air, or can I put them next to the case with the radiator outside that?





The way liquid cooling works is passing fluid though blocks for the heat to transfer to the fluid. You have to cool that fluid which is why you need a radiator. The lower temps on the parts are due to the increased heat dispersion efficiency, not a reduction in heat energy being given off. You need to cool the liquid so airflow is still important though it is less so when you have bigger radiators. The law of the conservation of energy is still in tact with liquid cooling --the heat has to be dissipated.







Push/pull means that you'd have 2 fans on each fan slot of a radiator with the closest to the tower pushing air through the radiator and the four on the opposite side pulling air through. This adds more fan/cooling power.



A fan mounted directly to the radiator is highly inefficient as there is a "dead spot" where the center of the fan is. A shroud is piece of material (most often another fan you cut the blades, wires and motor out of though you can buy better looking, pre-made ones) that acts as a spacer giving the fans better coverage on the radiator.



You can place your radiator in an external mounting system or use a massive external rad. These look cool and cool better due to the increased radiator space and airflow, but they are often a massive PITA if you LAN or even clean our from under your desk more often than most gamers (my wife would kill me if I didn't.)



My recommendation to you is: Put a 4x120mm rad on a mounting bracket. They're readily available http://www.frozencpu.com/products/9095/ex-rad-159/Koolance_Radiator_Mounting_Bracket_w_Quick-Release_BKT-HX001P.html?tl=g30c95s162 If you've got clearance under your desk this will easily allow you fit a 4*120mm since you can attach it to the 2nd 120mm fan and maintain stability. You really don't need two separate loops anymore except in extreme circumstances and there is not much difference in running your GPUs in parallel or serial either. Loop order still matters though, so run you loop Pump>CPU>GPUs (in either parallel or serial)>Rad>Res.



Personally I'd add a 3x120mm on the back and then reuse your 2x120mm a second rad between my CPU and GPUs just to drop the delta a tad bit, but one look at the clock speeds in my sig will tell you I'm a little beyond the OCs most people stop at.

Done.

#12
Posted 01/07/2012 08:31 PM   
Thanks for the replies, guys. Would removing my 2 fan radiator and going with the XSPC 360 radiator on the back work for cooling all three components? Or could I just add two more fans to the radiator for push pull and then cool the two graphics cards as well as the CPU? I don't have much money left haha, so I'm trying to keep prices down.
Thanks for the replies, guys. Would removing my 2 fan radiator and going with the XSPC 360 radiator on the back work for cooling all three components? Or could I just add two more fans to the radiator for push pull and then cool the two graphics cards as well as the CPU? I don't have much money left haha, so I'm trying to keep prices down.

"The true measure of a man is how he treats someone who can do him absolutely no good."

- Samuel Johnson



Image



Intel Core i5 750 @ 4.0 GHz 1.270 V

Custom Liquid Cooling Setup

8 GB DDR3 G.SKILL Ripjaw RAM @1522 MHz 7-7-7-20

2 x GTX 460 1GB Stock in SLI

OCZ Vertex 2 40GB SSD for Boot Drive

Western Digital Black 640 GB Hard Drive

MSI P55-GD65 SLI/CrossfireX Motherboard

Sony Optiarc DVD+-RW Disk Drive

Corsair 750W PSU

Acer P235H 23-inch Monitor

Cooler Master Storm Scout Chassis

Razer DeathAdder Mouse

Windows 7 64-Bit

#13
Posted 01/07/2012 08:51 PM   
Just throwing this in here... maybe instead of trying to add to your liquid cooling & having to squeeze your cash as best you can; you may be able to improve the case airflow and get cooler running GPUs that way. It'd be cheaper and may act as a stop gap while you save up for more liquid cooling...
Just throwing this in here... maybe instead of trying to add to your liquid cooling & having to squeeze your cash as best you can; you may be able to improve the case airflow and get cooler running GPUs that way. It'd be cheaper and may act as a stop gap while you save up for more liquid cooling...

I knew I hadn't imagined it... now it's deleted = people will never know what I hadn't imagined...

"Programming today is a race between software engineers striving to build bigger and better idiot-proof programs, and the Universe trying to produce bigger and better idiots. So far, the Universe is winning."



"Never, ever, argue with an idiot. They'll drag you down to their level and beat you with experience"


Image



GPU-Z CPU-Z Ccleaner Driversweeper OCCT

#14
Posted 01/07/2012 09:27 PM   
[quote name='thecomputergeek' date='07 January 2012 - 02:51 PM' timestamp='1325969498' post='1353026']
Thanks for the replies, guys. Would removing my 2 fan radiator and going with the XSPC 360 radiator on the back work for cooling all three components? Or could I just add two more fans to the radiator for push pull and then cool the two graphics cards as well as the CPU? I don't have much money left haha, so I'm trying to keep prices down.
[/quote]

I think you should save up for a radiator and a mounting bracket. You'll need 6 high quality fans and shrouds to cool that much gear on a 360mm. It's better to save up and do it right than to do it wrong.
[quote name='thecomputergeek' date='07 January 2012 - 02:51 PM' timestamp='1325969498' post='1353026']

Thanks for the replies, guys. Would removing my 2 fan radiator and going with the XSPC 360 radiator on the back work for cooling all three components? Or could I just add two more fans to the radiator for push pull and then cool the two graphics cards as well as the CPU? I don't have much money left haha, so I'm trying to keep prices down.





I think you should save up for a radiator and a mounting bracket. You'll need 6 high quality fans and shrouds to cool that much gear on a 360mm. It's better to save up and do it right than to do it wrong.

Done.

#15
Posted 01/07/2012 11:59 PM   
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