Some disturbing results from the US census. Those counted as poor have risen to 48% of the populatio
[url="http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5gkc3uqGuPnGfO90dElARcCQvgTvA?docId=9576d6a6343c46b1abbd0184a9244305"]http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5gkc3uqGuPnGfO90dElARcCQvgTvA?docId=9576d6a6343c46b1abbd0184a9244305[/url]

[quote]
[font=Arial, sans-serif][size=2][left]About 97.3 million Americans fall into a low-income category, commonly defined as those earning between 100 and 199 percent of the poverty level, based on a new supplemental measure by the Census Bureau that is designed to provide a fuller picture of poverty. Together with the 49.1 million who fall below the poverty line and are counted as poor, they number 146.4 million, or 48 percent of the U.S. population. That's up by 4 million from 2009, the earliest numbers for the newly developed poverty gauge.[/left][/size][/font]

[font=Arial, sans-serif][size=2][left]The new measure of poverty takes into account medical, commuting and other living costs as well as taxes. Doing that pushed the number of people below 200 percent of the poverty level, up from the 104 million, or 1 in 3 Americans, that was officially reported in September.[/left][/size][/font]

[font=Arial, sans-serif][size=2][left]Kathleen Short, research economist at the Census Bureau, said the number of people who are poor or low income increases to 1 in 2 because of added living costs on middle-class Americans. She described those living below 200 percent of poverty as a broad group, ranging from the poorest poor to those who may have modest amounts of income.[/left][/size][/font]

[font=Arial, sans-serif][size=2][left]"We do see a bigger percentage of people below 200 percent of poverty than with the official measure," she said. "This is a group that represents the low end of the income distribution."[/left][/size][/font]

[font=Arial, sans-serif][size=2][left]Broken down by age, children were most likely to be poor or low-income — about 57 percent — followed by seniors 65 and over. By race and ethnicity, Hispanics topped the list at 73 percent, followed by blacks, Asians and non-Hispanic whites.[/left][/size][/font]

[font=Arial, sans-serif][size=2][left]Even by traditional measures, many working families are hurting. [/quote][/left][/size][/font]

[font=Arial, sans-serif][size=2][left]
[/left][/size][/font]

[font=Arial, sans-serif][size=2][left]Something to think over.[/left][/size][/font]

http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5gkc3uqGuPnGfO90dElARcCQvgTvA?docId=9576d6a6343c46b1abbd0184a9244305





[font=Arial, sans-serif]
About 97.3 million Americans fall into a low-income category, commonly defined as those earning between 100 and 199 percent of the poverty level, based on a new supplemental measure by the Census Bureau that is designed to provide a fuller picture of poverty. Together with the 49.1 million who fall below the poverty line and are counted as poor, they number 146.4 million, or 48 percent of the U.S. population. That's up by 4 million from 2009, the earliest numbers for the newly developed poverty gauge.
[/font]



[font=Arial, sans-serif]
The new measure of poverty takes into account medical, commuting and other living costs as well as taxes. Doing that pushed the number of people below 200 percent of the poverty level, up from the 104 million, or 1 in 3 Americans, that was officially reported in September.
[/font]



[font=Arial, sans-serif]
Kathleen Short, research economist at the Census Bureau, said the number of people who are poor or low income increases to 1 in 2 because of added living costs on middle-class Americans. She described those living below 200 percent of poverty as a broad group, ranging from the poorest poor to those who may have modest amounts of income.
[/font]



[font=Arial, sans-serif]
"We do see a bigger percentage of people below 200 percent of poverty than with the official measure," she said. "This is a group that represents the low end of the income distribution."
[/font]



[font=Arial, sans-serif]
Broken down by age, children were most likely to be poor or low-income — about 57 percent — followed by seniors 65 and over. By race and ethnicity, Hispanics topped the list at 73 percent, followed by blacks, Asians and non-Hispanic whites.
[/font]



[font=Arial, sans-serif]
Even by traditional measures, many working families are hurting.
[/font]



[font=Arial, sans-serif]


[/font]



[font=Arial, sans-serif]
Something to think over.
[/font]


Done.

#1
Posted 12/31/2011 07:01 PM   
the main reason is the poor economy and consumer spending is way down. take me for instance i uswd to be a mattress salesman i used to work 38 hours a week my dept. used to make around 10,000 to 20,000 dollars a month. since the recession my company's sales in the mattress dept. dropped to about 10,000 for the year not month for the year. they laid off everybody in my dept. cut my hours to 32 and cut comissions down. then last year they decided to cut out the dept. altogether and lay me off so i get another job make more money but the hours are not there. if stores in the retail sector are not making money how do they keep stores running ? its up to the american consumer to shop so the companys can afford to give more hours to the employees.
the main reason is the poor economy and consumer spending is way down. take me for instance i uswd to be a mattress salesman i used to work 38 hours a week my dept. used to make around 10,000 to 20,000 dollars a month. since the recession my company's sales in the mattress dept. dropped to about 10,000 for the year not month for the year. they laid off everybody in my dept. cut my hours to 32 and cut comissions down. then last year they decided to cut out the dept. altogether and lay me off so i get another job make more money but the hours are not there. if stores in the retail sector are not making money how do they keep stores running ? its up to the american consumer to shop so the companys can afford to give more hours to the employees.

#2
Posted 12/31/2011 08:50 PM   
What's to think about really it's been that way in america for year's since elected government official's most often believe in the trickle down effect and what look's good on paper more often than plain common sense.

As you probably realise most people don't want to think about thing's like this in depth and just have blind faith in there elected official's but that does'nt work forever as the evidence is pointing out.
Just look at how many goofball law's are passed and people don't even realise they voted for them until it's too late just because the commercial on tv said vote for so and so ammendment.
Citizen's are going to have to start thinking about and educate theirself on what they are actually voting for.
What's to think about really it's been that way in america for year's since elected government official's most often believe in the trickle down effect and what look's good on paper more often than plain common sense.



As you probably realise most people don't want to think about thing's like this in depth and just have blind faith in there elected official's but that does'nt work forever as the evidence is pointing out.

Just look at how many goofball law's are passed and people don't even realise they voted for them until it's too late just because the commercial on tv said vote for so and so ammendment.

Citizen's are going to have to start thinking about and educate theirself on what they are actually voting for.

#3
Posted 12/31/2011 08:54 PM   
[quote name='rsabatino' date='31 December 2011 - 02:50 PM' timestamp='1325364602' post='1349769']
the main reason is the poor economy and consumer spending is way down. take me for instance i uswd to be a mattress salesman i used to work 38 hours a week my dept. used to make around 10,000 to 20,000 dollars a month. since the recession my company's sales in the mattress dept. dropped to about 10,000 for the year not month for the year. they laid off everybody in my dept. cut my hours to 32 and cut comissions down. then last year they decided to cut out the dept. altogether and lay me off so i get another job make more money but the hours are not there. if stores in the retail sector are not making money how do they keep stores running ? its up to the american consumer to shop so the companys can afford to give more hours to the employees.
[/quote]
1: Everyone is broke and has been for over 30 years, debt has run this economic system at every level since roughly 1980 (as opposed to actual capital.) Even the banks were loaning out money they owed someone else. Now the debt has been called and there isn't much real money left to spend.

2: No economy driven by the purchases of individuals will ever work. When the everyday people lose their jobs they no longer have money to purchase -->causing greater job losses -->even less money to purchase-->and onward indefinitely. There needs to be an influx of money or trade-able goods into the economy by either those who have money still or by the government. The Great Depression was ended by a war causing record government spending. Money needs to come from somewhere --and currently no one who has any is willing to share.

3: There is a shortage of production jobs and of educated workers to fill the few remaining. Our schools are the worst they've ever been while costing the most they ever have. Teacher salaries being so low won't exactly get the creme de le creme, though executive salaries in education and education related fields are exorbitant enough to get people fat.

4: The costs and risks involved in starting a new small business prohibit new companies forming. Small companies cannot provide benefits for the most part.

5: Most people are required to work crappy jobs with horrible pay through the need for health insurance.

6: We're all people and it's dehumanizing to refer to people as consumers. It's a tactic used to separate decisions from individuals. In economic models it's useful, but we're obviously not discussing abstract economics. (This isn't directed at you at all, but at our system --as a culture we've dehumanized those we don't actually know.)

It's more complicated than most people realize.

[size="2"][quote name='Impatient' date='31 December 2011 - 02:54 PM' timestamp='1325364877' post='1349770']
What's to think about really it's been that way in america for year's since elected government official's most often believe in the trickle down effect and what look's good on paper more often than plain common sense.

As you probably realise most people don't want to think about thing's like this in depth and just have blind faith in there elected official's but that does'nt work forever as the evidence is pointing out.
Just look at how many goofball law's are passed and people don't even realise they voted for them until it's too late just because the commercial on tv said vote for so and so ammendment.
Citizen's are going to have to start thinking about and educate theirself on what they are actually voting for.
[/quote]

It's more than just government. It's cultural too. There is a shortage of helping our fellow Americans out lately, but a surplus of complaining. [/size][size="2"]Usually churches and religious groups are part of the solution, but right now churches are too busy with political action to be helpful. The other NGOs are too underfunded to contribute due to a lack of donations and volunteers.[/size]
[quote name='rsabatino' date='31 December 2011 - 02:50 PM' timestamp='1325364602' post='1349769']

the main reason is the poor economy and consumer spending is way down. take me for instance i uswd to be a mattress salesman i used to work 38 hours a week my dept. used to make around 10,000 to 20,000 dollars a month. since the recession my company's sales in the mattress dept. dropped to about 10,000 for the year not month for the year. they laid off everybody in my dept. cut my hours to 32 and cut comissions down. then last year they decided to cut out the dept. altogether and lay me off so i get another job make more money but the hours are not there. if stores in the retail sector are not making money how do they keep stores running ? its up to the american consumer to shop so the companys can afford to give more hours to the employees.



1: Everyone is broke and has been for over 30 years, debt has run this economic system at every level since roughly 1980 (as opposed to actual capital.) Even the banks were loaning out money they owed someone else. Now the debt has been called and there isn't much real money left to spend.



2: No economy driven by the purchases of individuals will ever work. When the everyday people lose their jobs they no longer have money to purchase -->causing greater job losses -->even less money to purchase-->and onward indefinitely. There needs to be an influx of money or trade-able goods into the economy by either those who have money still or by the government. The Great Depression was ended by a war causing record government spending. Money needs to come from somewhere --and currently no one who has any is willing to share.



3: There is a shortage of production jobs and of educated workers to fill the few remaining. Our schools are the worst they've ever been while costing the most they ever have. Teacher salaries being so low won't exactly get the creme de le creme, though executive salaries in education and education related fields are exorbitant enough to get people fat.



4: The costs and risks involved in starting a new small business prohibit new companies forming. Small companies cannot provide benefits for the most part.



5: Most people are required to work crappy jobs with horrible pay through the need for health insurance.



6: We're all people and it's dehumanizing to refer to people as consumers. It's a tactic used to separate decisions from individuals. In economic models it's useful, but we're obviously not discussing abstract economics. (This isn't directed at you at all, but at our system --as a culture we've dehumanized those we don't actually know.)



It's more complicated than most people realize.



[quote name='Impatient' date='31 December 2011 - 02:54 PM' timestamp='1325364877' post='1349770']

What's to think about really it's been that way in america for year's since elected government official's most often believe in the trickle down effect and what look's good on paper more often than plain common sense.



As you probably realise most people don't want to think about thing's like this in depth and just have blind faith in there elected official's but that does'nt work forever as the evidence is pointing out.

Just look at how many goofball law's are passed and people don't even realise they voted for them until it's too late just because the commercial on tv said vote for so and so ammendment.

Citizen's are going to have to start thinking about and educate theirself on what they are actually voting for.





It's more than just government. It's cultural too. There is a shortage of helping our fellow Americans out lately, but a surplus of complaining. Usually churches and religious groups are part of the solution, but right now churches are too busy with political action to be helpful. The other NGOs are too underfunded to contribute due to a lack of donations and volunteers.

Done.

#4
Posted 12/31/2011 09:18 PM   
Sure it's cultural also i did'nt mean to imply it was just government,it involve's every individual both young and old.

But it seem's to me that the only one's that can start curing what ail's us are the one's with authority at the top.

In some situation's the cure can't start from the bottom to the top but has to start at the top and work down,something like leading by example.
Sure it's cultural also i did'nt mean to imply it was just government,it involve's every individual both young and old.



But it seem's to me that the only one's that can start curing what ail's us are the one's with authority at the top.



In some situation's the cure can't start from the bottom to the top but has to start at the top and work down,something like leading by example.

#5
Posted 12/31/2011 09:37 PM   
[quote name='Impatient' date='31 December 2011 - 03:37 PM' timestamp='1325367422' post='1349780']
Sure it's cultural also i did'nt mean to imply it was just government,it involve's every individual both young and old.

But it seem's to me that the only one's that can start curing what ail's us are the one's with authority at the top.

In some situation's the cure can't start from the bottom to the top but has to start at the top and work down,something like leading by example.
[/quote]

There are many ways this could be resolved and it will probably take a hodgepodge of many:

1: Intelligent government regulation including a reduction and restructuring of regulation (criminal, civil, orders, rules and laws) on humans coupled with a restructuring of those on other forms of legal people (corporations and whatnot.)

2: Religious groups focusing on the "help everyone" and "love everyone" bits instead of the "behave yourself" and "go to hell" bits.

3: Everyday people sitting down and analyzing what they believe. Most people just knee jerk before they speak.

4: Everyday people pulling their heads out of their bums and helping each other out. The selfishness has to end. No one does it on their own --good or bad.

5: Fix the education system, and not by cutting funding. We're the stupidest "1st world nation in the world."

6: Everyday people donating time, money and belongings. We all have at least one of those, help someone out.

7: Business needs to quit trying to make as much money as possible. Growth isn't essential to make a great product or to success. Make the best product you can, take care of your people, price fairly, compete fairly --and be content with success. "More" isn't worth chasing, it's not like you can ever get there.

8: The Supreme Court needs to learn to read. Money isn't speech and corporations aren't people --we have different words for a reason. Discrimination is illegal too, and I have no clue how they keep missing the 14th amendment.

9: We need a decent social welfare system, and TBH anyone who argues that is just being selfish. People are people and no one not matter how lazy, crooked or mentally ill deserves to starve or die of curable diseases.

10: Those who benefit off of society are morally obligated to let it benefit them. It should be a legal obligation for those without such morals.

11: We need to encourage small startups. Big companies can't keep up with a genius with an idea. The larger big companies get the slower they move, and the less they innovate. We're low on small businesses right now and so we're lower on innovation than we could be.
[quote name='Impatient' date='31 December 2011 - 03:37 PM' timestamp='1325367422' post='1349780']

Sure it's cultural also i did'nt mean to imply it was just government,it involve's every individual both young and old.



But it seem's to me that the only one's that can start curing what ail's us are the one's with authority at the top.



In some situation's the cure can't start from the bottom to the top but has to start at the top and work down,something like leading by example.





There are many ways this could be resolved and it will probably take a hodgepodge of many:



1: Intelligent government regulation including a reduction and restructuring of regulation (criminal, civil, orders, rules and laws) on humans coupled with a restructuring of those on other forms of legal people (corporations and whatnot.)



2: Religious groups focusing on the "help everyone" and "love everyone" bits instead of the "behave yourself" and "go to hell" bits.



3: Everyday people sitting down and analyzing what they believe. Most people just knee jerk before they speak.



4: Everyday people pulling their heads out of their bums and helping each other out. The selfishness has to end. No one does it on their own --good or bad.



5: Fix the education system, and not by cutting funding. We're the stupidest "1st world nation in the world."



6: Everyday people donating time, money and belongings. We all have at least one of those, help someone out.



7: Business needs to quit trying to make as much money as possible. Growth isn't essential to make a great product or to success. Make the best product you can, take care of your people, price fairly, compete fairly --and be content with success. "More" isn't worth chasing, it's not like you can ever get there.



8: The Supreme Court needs to learn to read. Money isn't speech and corporations aren't people --we have different words for a reason. Discrimination is illegal too, and I have no clue how they keep missing the 14th amendment.



9: We need a decent social welfare system, and TBH anyone who argues that is just being selfish. People are people and no one not matter how lazy, crooked or mentally ill deserves to starve or die of curable diseases.



10: Those who benefit off of society are morally obligated to let it benefit them. It should be a legal obligation for those without such morals.



11: We need to encourage small startups. Big companies can't keep up with a genius with an idea. The larger big companies get the slower they move, and the less they innovate. We're low on small businesses right now and so we're lower on innovation than we could be.

Done.

#6
Posted 12/31/2011 10:00 PM   
I agree with the point's you have made they are logical and show common sense which set's you apart from the majority of people in the u.s.

But now that the point's have been made the how to do it question has been raised,basicly how to put it into effect?

For instance if you are the minority how do you convince the majority that they are'nt as moral and inteligent as they have been led to believe?

I really don't see anything getting much better until people in the u.s. realise how very corrupt we have become and decide's to change our thinking process and taking responsibility for our action's instead of trying to say it's dog eat dog world and do the same thing's over and over again.
I agree with the point's you have made they are logical and show common sense which set's you apart from the majority of people in the u.s.



But now that the point's have been made the how to do it question has been raised,basicly how to put it into effect?



For instance if you are the minority how do you convince the majority that they are'nt as moral and inteligent as they have been led to believe?



I really don't see anything getting much better until people in the u.s. realise how very corrupt we have become and decide's to change our thinking process and taking responsibility for our action's instead of trying to say it's dog eat dog world and do the same thing's over and over again.

#7
Posted 12/31/2011 11:09 PM   
[quote name='Impatient' date='31 December 2011 - 05:09 PM' timestamp='1325372981' post='1349804']
I really don't see anything getting much better until people in the u.s. realise how very corrupt we have become and decide's to change our thinking process and taking responsibility for our action's instead of trying to say it's dog eat dog world and do the same thing's over and over again.
[/quote]

It's not necessarily about responsibility; we have a lot of that. What we as a culture have forgotten is that we're in this together. We need to balance the individual and the group, extremes in every way looks rather similar --it's only in moderation we can see the subtleties that make systems and people unique.

The solution will come through people realizing it's not about them. It's about something bigger --whatever their something may be. Everyone needs perspective --something bigger to give them a sense of scale to the universe. Some seek an ideal like Liberty or Justice, some find this in their religion --if they really take the teachings to heart, others may find it in volunteerism, and others in an infinite number of other ways.

The important thing is no matter what gives you perspective --give sacrificially to others in order to seek it. Volunteer your time, money and belongings in the service of others --even when they don't deserve it.

Selfishness and greed end with the actions of a few people who spread it though really believing there is something bigger worth doing. If it's not about us then we have no need to be greedy, do we?

I can do no more than my part, but I can do [i]all[/i] of my part. It's a balance and we are not the fulcrum.
[quote name='Impatient' date='31 December 2011 - 05:09 PM' timestamp='1325372981' post='1349804']

I really don't see anything getting much better until people in the u.s. realise how very corrupt we have become and decide's to change our thinking process and taking responsibility for our action's instead of trying to say it's dog eat dog world and do the same thing's over and over again.





It's not necessarily about responsibility; we have a lot of that. What we as a culture have forgotten is that we're in this together. We need to balance the individual and the group, extremes in every way looks rather similar --it's only in moderation we can see the subtleties that make systems and people unique.



The solution will come through people realizing it's not about them. It's about something bigger --whatever their something may be. Everyone needs perspective --something bigger to give them a sense of scale to the universe. Some seek an ideal like Liberty or Justice, some find this in their religion --if they really take the teachings to heart, others may find it in volunteerism, and others in an infinite number of other ways.



The important thing is no matter what gives you perspective --give sacrificially to others in order to seek it. Volunteer your time, money and belongings in the service of others --even when they don't deserve it.



Selfishness and greed end with the actions of a few people who spread it though really believing there is something bigger worth doing. If it's not about us then we have no need to be greedy, do we?



I can do no more than my part, but I can do all of my part. It's a balance and we are not the fulcrum.

Done.

#8
Posted 01/01/2012 02:01 AM   
Not at all surprising. This country is going down the crapper because the rich are getting richer and the poor are getting poorer. Add to that the increasing size of minorities & illegals, and the fact that most rich people have the opinion of Herman Cain "if you aren't rich and you don't have a job, blame yourself", and you have a perfect recipe for the economic disaster we are in thanks to banks & deregulation of said banks.

What's really disheartening is those well-off folks that do care are often taken advantage of when they try to help.

Not that it matters anyway. We'll be the United States of China or Russia inside the next 3 years.
Not at all surprising. This country is going down the crapper because the rich are getting richer and the poor are getting poorer. Add to that the increasing size of minorities & illegals, and the fact that most rich people have the opinion of Herman Cain "if you aren't rich and you don't have a job, blame yourself", and you have a perfect recipe for the economic disaster we are in thanks to banks & deregulation of said banks.



What's really disheartening is those well-off folks that do care are often taken advantage of when they try to help.



Not that it matters anyway. We'll be the United States of China or Russia inside the next 3 years.



Image


Image

Help fight Cancer, Alzheimer's and Parkinson's Disease by donating unused CPU and GPU power to Stanford University's Research Folding@Home projects:

Simplest method is to setup the FAH v7 client with this Windows Installation Guide

#9
Posted 01/01/2012 06:50 AM   
[quote name='Honey Badger' date='01 January 2012 - 12:50 AM' timestamp='1325400618' post='1349910']
Not at all surprising. This country is going down the crapper because the rich are getting richer and the poor are getting poorer. Add to that the increasing size of minorities & illegals, and the fact that most rich people have the opinion of Herman Cain "if you aren't rich and you don't have a job, blame yourself", and you have a perfect recipe for the economic disaster we are in thanks to banks & deregulation of said banks.

What's really disheartening is those well-off folks that do care are often taken advantage of when they try to help.

Not that it matters anyway. We'll be the United States of China or Russia inside the next 3 years.
[/quote]

I'm personally of the opinion that the wealth discrepancy is from the deeper problem of cultural selfishness. We actually teach children in school that greed makes the system work, yet we are surprised at massive acts of selfishness..


People who look different make a convenient scapegoat for people who cause the problems b/c many people won't think before kneejerking. If they look and/or act and/or speak differently --they must be evil since they aren't understood. It's the cause of every genocide in history.


In Texas white, non Hispanic are only 42% of the reported population (and as a social science grad student I can tell you that number is wrong; it's probably only about 35%.) What's going to happen when Hispanics are the majority and whites have been treating them like dirt since those very Hispanics died in the Texas war of independence? (Most of the soldiers in the Texas revolution were Hispanics.)

BTW the only real way to fix illegal immigration is to target the people hiring them. For an impoverished Latino it's worth the risk so long as there is someone willing to hire them. If there's not work --there's not going to be any illegal immigrants. Basic supply and demand.
[quote name='Honey Badger' date='01 January 2012 - 12:50 AM' timestamp='1325400618' post='1349910']

Not at all surprising. This country is going down the crapper because the rich are getting richer and the poor are getting poorer. Add to that the increasing size of minorities & illegals, and the fact that most rich people have the opinion of Herman Cain "if you aren't rich and you don't have a job, blame yourself", and you have a perfect recipe for the economic disaster we are in thanks to banks & deregulation of said banks.



What's really disheartening is those well-off folks that do care are often taken advantage of when they try to help.



Not that it matters anyway. We'll be the United States of China or Russia inside the next 3 years.





I'm personally of the opinion that the wealth discrepancy is from the deeper problem of cultural selfishness. We actually teach children in school that greed makes the system work, yet we are surprised at massive acts of selfishness..





People who look different make a convenient scapegoat for people who cause the problems b/c many people won't think before kneejerking. If they look and/or act and/or speak differently --they must be evil since they aren't understood. It's the cause of every genocide in history.





In Texas white, non Hispanic are only 42% of the reported population (and as a social science grad student I can tell you that number is wrong; it's probably only about 35%.) What's going to happen when Hispanics are the majority and whites have been treating them like dirt since those very Hispanics died in the Texas war of independence? (Most of the soldiers in the Texas revolution were Hispanics.)



BTW the only real way to fix illegal immigration is to target the people hiring them. For an impoverished Latino it's worth the risk so long as there is someone willing to hire them. If there's not work --there's not going to be any illegal immigrants. Basic supply and demand.

Done.

#10
Posted 01/01/2012 08:41 AM   
[quote name='D1llw33d' date='01 January 2012 - 01:41 AM' timestamp='1325407271' post='1349942']
It's the cause of every genocide in history.[/quote]

I'd have to disagree with you there. Religion is the root cause of nearly every genocide in history. I say nearly because there are instances like Darfur & the like where it has little to do with Religion, but the majority of them, I.E. WWII, the Crusades, etc, all had their route in religious differences leading to war & mass-killings.

It's sad that something designed to give people hope & happyness has led to some much death & sorrow throughout our history.

Sorry for going off-topic a bit.

I do agree with you on the illegals thing, we need to severely punish places that hire illegals. I think there should be a clear & easy path to legal citizenship for anyone wanting to seek it, but that it should have stricter requirements, including learning English & speaking it fluently being required. I hate it when someone gets mad at me because I can't understand their broken english X_X SO ANNOYING!

I also think we should offer younger immigrants an easy route to citizenship in the form of military service. There is few if any greater honors than serving your country, & IMO any person willing to put their life and limb at risk for a few years in service of the United States deserves citizenship. I can't believe there are some people in the military that are not citizens that have been in Iraq or Afghanistan for years... they should be given citizenship automatically IMO.

Honestly, I would've joined the military when I was younger if not for my sister's very bad experience in it. She enrolled for a 4-year stint. 6 years later, she was fighting to get out on Medical because she had significant & permenant damage done over the years in service. It wasn't until her 7th year that she finally got out. One thing they don't tell you when you sign up: The terms & length of your deployment & enrollment are not set in stone just because you sign it. Once you're in, they do not HAVE to let you out when your time is up, especially during a "time of war" which we just so happened to be in when her 4 years were up, thanks to the unnecessary waste of money & lives we all know as the second Iraq War. Before all that mess, I was considering going in myself, simply because of the free money for college, & the whole feeling obligated to serve bit.

My family used to be in what was considered the "middle class". Now, thanks to the economy, higher prices on everything, & my mother becoming disabled & unable to return to work, my dad & her are now barely scraping by month to month, despite his yearly pay being quite nice in comparison to my own. It's really sad how the Middle Class has all but disappeared.
[quote name='D1llw33d' date='01 January 2012 - 01:41 AM' timestamp='1325407271' post='1349942']

It's the cause of every genocide in history.



I'd have to disagree with you there. Religion is the root cause of nearly every genocide in history. I say nearly because there are instances like Darfur & the like where it has little to do with Religion, but the majority of them, I.E. WWII, the Crusades, etc, all had their route in religious differences leading to war & mass-killings.



It's sad that something designed to give people hope & happyness has led to some much death & sorrow throughout our history.



Sorry for going off-topic a bit.



I do agree with you on the illegals thing, we need to severely punish places that hire illegals. I think there should be a clear & easy path to legal citizenship for anyone wanting to seek it, but that it should have stricter requirements, including learning English & speaking it fluently being required. I hate it when someone gets mad at me because I can't understand their broken english X_X SO ANNOYING!



I also think we should offer younger immigrants an easy route to citizenship in the form of military service. There is few if any greater honors than serving your country, & IMO any person willing to put their life and limb at risk for a few years in service of the United States deserves citizenship. I can't believe there are some people in the military that are not citizens that have been in Iraq or Afghanistan for years... they should be given citizenship automatically IMO.



Honestly, I would've joined the military when I was younger if not for my sister's very bad experience in it. She enrolled for a 4-year stint. 6 years later, she was fighting to get out on Medical because she had significant & permenant damage done over the years in service. It wasn't until her 7th year that she finally got out. One thing they don't tell you when you sign up: The terms & length of your deployment & enrollment are not set in stone just because you sign it. Once you're in, they do not HAVE to let you out when your time is up, especially during a "time of war" which we just so happened to be in when her 4 years were up, thanks to the unnecessary waste of money & lives we all know as the second Iraq War. Before all that mess, I was considering going in myself, simply because of the free money for college, & the whole feeling obligated to serve bit.



My family used to be in what was considered the "middle class". Now, thanks to the economy, higher prices on everything, & my mother becoming disabled & unable to return to work, my dad & her are now barely scraping by month to month, despite his yearly pay being quite nice in comparison to my own. It's really sad how the Middle Class has all but disappeared.



Image


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Help fight Cancer, Alzheimer's and Parkinson's Disease by donating unused CPU and GPU power to Stanford University's Research Folding@Home projects:

Simplest method is to setup the FAH v7 client with this Windows Installation Guide

#11
Posted 01/01/2012 10:32 AM   
[quote name='Honey Badger' date='01 January 2012 - 04:32 AM' timestamp='1325413967' post='1349961']
I'd have to disagree with you there. Religion is the root cause of nearly every genocide in history. I say nearly because there are instances like Darfur & the like where it has little to do with Religion, but the majority of them, I.E. WWII, the Crusades, etc, all had their route in religious differences leading to war & mass-killings.

It's sad that something designed to give people hope & happyness has led to some much death & sorrow throughout our history.
[/quote]

Religion itself is never the cause of anything evil. There are deeper things there and religion is just used as an excuse. Wars are usually about power and dominance --as is genocide. Genocide almost always follows poor economic times with a minority group being made a scapegoat.

There is one [i]very[/i] notable exception to this: The American Indians. The genocide has been nearly complete and continues with almost no resistance. The cause there is conquest and while there is little desire to continue the genocide it keeps going because of impoverishment and massive depression. American Indians die very young of broken hearts or depression.

[quote name='Honey Badger' date='01 January 2012 - 04:32 AM' timestamp='1325413967' post='1349961']
I do agree with you on the illegals thing, we need to severely punish places that hire illegals. I think there should be a clear & easy path to legal citizenship for anyone wanting to seek it, but that it should have stricter requirements, including learning English & speaking it fluently being required. I hate it when someone gets mad at me because I can't understand their broken english X_X SO ANNOYING!
[/quote]

Two things there. There is no national language and you don't want one. The only vote there ever was on the issue failed by 6 votes and so you don't speak German. If we make English the national language it will become Spanish by the time our children die --Hispanics are going to be the majority in our own lifetimes. Also I know a lot of native born Americans who don't speak any language fluently --even American English.

The South cannot function without migrant labor. It's economically impossible. We still have plantations (though we call them agrobiz or corporate mega farms,) so it it really surprising that we need workers that work for less than minimum wage? After 9-11 the economy in the South went to Hell for a very different reason than the North --our crops rotted in the fields. Farmers offered $15 an hour and couldn't get people to come pick them and since the boarders were actually secure for the only time in US history --we had massive food shortages.

[quote name='Honey Badger' date='01 January 2012 - 04:32 AM' timestamp='1325413967' post='1349961']
I also think we should offer younger immigrants an easy route to citizenship in the form of military service. There is few if any greater honors than serving your country, & IMO any person willing to put their life and limb at risk for a few years in service of the United States deserves citizenship. I can't believe there are some people in the military that are not citizens that have been in Iraq or Afghanistan for years... they should be given citizenship automatically IMO.
[/quote]


I agree there. We should grant them automatic citizenship upon completion of enlistment. They are obviously Americans if they were willing to die for America.

[quote name='Honey Badger' date='01 January 2012 - 04:32 AM' timestamp='1325413967' post='1349961']
Honestly, I would've joined the military when I was younger if not for my sister's very bad experience in it. She enrolled for a 4-year stint. 6 years later, she was fighting to get out on Medical because she had significant & permenant damage done over the years in service. It wasn't until her 7th year that she finally got out. One thing they don't tell you when you sign up: The terms & length of your deployment & enrollment are not set in stone just because you sign it. Once you're in, they do not HAVE to let you out when your time is up, especially during a "time of war" which we just so happened to be in when her 4 years were up, thanks to the unnecessary waste of money & lives we all know as the second Iraq War. Before all that mess, I was considering going in myself, simply because of the free money for college, & the whole feeling obligated to serve bit.
[/quote]


I'm sorry to hear that. I'm a US Navy JAG candidate myself. After this degree I will submit my final application and will hopefully receive my commission as an officer.

[quote name='Honey Badger' date='01 January 2012 - 04:32 AM' timestamp='1325413967' post='1349961']
My family used to be in what was considered the "middle class". Now, thanks to the economy, higher prices on everything, & my mother becoming disabled & unable to return to work, my dad & her are now barely scraping by month to month, despite his yearly pay being quite nice in comparison to my own. It's really sad how the Middle Class has all but disappeared.
[/quote]


I'm also very sorry to hear that. I'm personally swimming in debt even with a very nice job and [i]very [/i]responsible spending habits. I had a state funded full ride scholarship, but the Tea Party killed the State Scholarship fund here in TX so I'm now taking out loans. I still have a 3.79 GPA at a graduate school that doesn't use the +/- system (which makes it harder to keep one that high.) This entire time I've been working, and my wife to be (getting married on Tuesday!) has a full time job too --still school costs more than having our first child will.

I come from a family with old money though I was tossed out on my ear as a teenager. I don't regret losing the silver spoon at all though. I've learned to do things for myself in a way none of my siblings or cousins (or even parents) ever did. That said, there were people who gave me a leg up when I was homeless and helped a street kid get back into school and I'll owe them for that the rest of my life. No one does it on their own --good or bad.
[quote name='Honey Badger' date='01 January 2012 - 04:32 AM' timestamp='1325413967' post='1349961']

I'd have to disagree with you there. Religion is the root cause of nearly every genocide in history. I say nearly because there are instances like Darfur & the like where it has little to do with Religion, but the majority of them, I.E. WWII, the Crusades, etc, all had their route in religious differences leading to war & mass-killings.



It's sad that something designed to give people hope & happyness has led to some much death & sorrow throughout our history.





Religion itself is never the cause of anything evil. There are deeper things there and religion is just used as an excuse. Wars are usually about power and dominance --as is genocide. Genocide almost always follows poor economic times with a minority group being made a scapegoat.



There is one very notable exception to this: The American Indians. The genocide has been nearly complete and continues with almost no resistance. The cause there is conquest and while there is little desire to continue the genocide it keeps going because of impoverishment and massive depression. American Indians die very young of broken hearts or depression.



[quote name='Honey Badger' date='01 January 2012 - 04:32 AM' timestamp='1325413967' post='1349961']

I do agree with you on the illegals thing, we need to severely punish places that hire illegals. I think there should be a clear & easy path to legal citizenship for anyone wanting to seek it, but that it should have stricter requirements, including learning English & speaking it fluently being required. I hate it when someone gets mad at me because I can't understand their broken english X_X SO ANNOYING!





Two things there. There is no national language and you don't want one. The only vote there ever was on the issue failed by 6 votes and so you don't speak German. If we make English the national language it will become Spanish by the time our children die --Hispanics are going to be the majority in our own lifetimes. Also I know a lot of native born Americans who don't speak any language fluently --even American English.



The South cannot function without migrant labor. It's economically impossible. We still have plantations (though we call them agrobiz or corporate mega farms,) so it it really surprising that we need workers that work for less than minimum wage? After 9-11 the economy in the South went to Hell for a very different reason than the North --our crops rotted in the fields. Farmers offered $15 an hour and couldn't get people to come pick them and since the boarders were actually secure for the only time in US history --we had massive food shortages.



[quote name='Honey Badger' date='01 January 2012 - 04:32 AM' timestamp='1325413967' post='1349961']

I also think we should offer younger immigrants an easy route to citizenship in the form of military service. There is few if any greater honors than serving your country, & IMO any person willing to put their life and limb at risk for a few years in service of the United States deserves citizenship. I can't believe there are some people in the military that are not citizens that have been in Iraq or Afghanistan for years... they should be given citizenship automatically IMO.







I agree there. We should grant them automatic citizenship upon completion of enlistment. They are obviously Americans if they were willing to die for America.



[quote name='Honey Badger' date='01 January 2012 - 04:32 AM' timestamp='1325413967' post='1349961']

Honestly, I would've joined the military when I was younger if not for my sister's very bad experience in it. She enrolled for a 4-year stint. 6 years later, she was fighting to get out on Medical because she had significant & permenant damage done over the years in service. It wasn't until her 7th year that she finally got out. One thing they don't tell you when you sign up: The terms & length of your deployment & enrollment are not set in stone just because you sign it. Once you're in, they do not HAVE to let you out when your time is up, especially during a "time of war" which we just so happened to be in when her 4 years were up, thanks to the unnecessary waste of money & lives we all know as the second Iraq War. Before all that mess, I was considering going in myself, simply because of the free money for college, & the whole feeling obligated to serve bit.







I'm sorry to hear that. I'm a US Navy JAG candidate myself. After this degree I will submit my final application and will hopefully receive my commission as an officer.



[quote name='Honey Badger' date='01 January 2012 - 04:32 AM' timestamp='1325413967' post='1349961']

My family used to be in what was considered the "middle class". Now, thanks to the economy, higher prices on everything, & my mother becoming disabled & unable to return to work, my dad & her are now barely scraping by month to month, despite his yearly pay being quite nice in comparison to my own. It's really sad how the Middle Class has all but disappeared.







I'm also very sorry to hear that. I'm personally swimming in debt even with a very nice job and very responsible spending habits. I had a state funded full ride scholarship, but the Tea Party killed the State Scholarship fund here in TX so I'm now taking out loans. I still have a 3.79 GPA at a graduate school that doesn't use the +/- system (which makes it harder to keep one that high.) This entire time I've been working, and my wife to be (getting married on Tuesday!) has a full time job too --still school costs more than having our first child will.



I come from a family with old money though I was tossed out on my ear as a teenager. I don't regret losing the silver spoon at all though. I've learned to do things for myself in a way none of my siblings or cousins (or even parents) ever did. That said, there were people who gave me a leg up when I was homeless and helped a street kid get back into school and I'll owe them for that the rest of my life. No one does it on their own --good or bad.

Done.

#12
Posted 01/01/2012 09:22 PM   
It comes down to the old Addage: The Rich get Richer - The Poor get Poorer

Putting money INTO the ecnomoy has NOTHING to do with its growth, quite in fact, it puts the economy further into debt, because the US govt is Bankrupt, and has been since 1933.

You cannot PAY DEBT, WITH DEBT! that is a physical, mathmatical, and economic impossibility.

ALL MONEY starts off as debt, ALL money is BORROWED into the economy!

There is not enough PAPER MONEY in circulation to cover the DEBTS that exist in cyberspace - FACT

THAT is what is wrong with the economy, of COURSE it is going to implode!

How could we have fixed it? (but ONE solution of MANY) do what Ron Paul has said HE would have done with the "banker bailout"

Give the money to the people, the people pay their debt, the banks books are balanced.

Obama, gave it to the bankers, who then said "thankyou very much"

And then chief fraud voodoo economist director of the Fed Reserve said "whooooops, seems I miscalculated, sorry guys"

Watch this documentry, understand what is behind the money powers, get informed http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JXt1cayx0hs

That is an extremely long and highly academic doco on money, not everyone is going to have the attention span to sit through it. So for those people, here is a cartoon lasting a paltry 40 minutes, that explains everything you need to know, in a funny and entertaining way http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZPWH5TlbloU
It comes down to the old Addage: The Rich get Richer - The Poor get Poorer



Putting money INTO the ecnomoy has NOTHING to do with its growth, quite in fact, it puts the economy further into debt, because the US govt is Bankrupt, and has been since 1933.



You cannot PAY DEBT, WITH DEBT! that is a physical, mathmatical, and economic impossibility.



ALL MONEY starts off as debt, ALL money is BORROWED into the economy!



There is not enough PAPER MONEY in circulation to cover the DEBTS that exist in cyberspace - FACT



THAT is what is wrong with the economy, of COURSE it is going to implode!



How could we have fixed it? (but ONE solution of MANY) do what Ron Paul has said HE would have done with the "banker bailout"



Give the money to the people, the people pay their debt, the banks books are balanced.



Obama, gave it to the bankers, who then said "thankyou very much"



And then chief fraud voodoo economist director of the Fed Reserve said "whooooops, seems I miscalculated, sorry guys"



Watch this documentry, understand what is behind the money powers, get informed />


That is an extremely long and highly academic doco on money, not everyone is going to have the attention span to sit through it. So for those people, here is a cartoon lasting a paltry 40 minutes, that explains everything you need to know, in a funny and entertaining way

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#13
Posted 01/09/2012 01:10 AM   
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