The Witcher 2 devs claim 100% accuracy in identifying pirates
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big article in source below:
http://www.pcgamer.com/2011/12/15/the-witcher-2-devs-claim-100-accuracy-in-identifying-pirates-demand-money-from-thousands/
Blatant fear tactics - I would bet those "legal notices" bear absolutely no legal relavance at all. And are just run of the mill threats, on the level of common thuggery.

That, as in all things, only gain legal jurisdiction when someone is silly enough to give up their legal standing and bind themselves into contract with it.
Blatant fear tactics - I would bet those "legal notices" bear absolutely no legal relavance at all. And are just run of the mill threats, on the level of common thuggery.



That, as in all things, only gain legal jurisdiction when someone is silly enough to give up their legal standing and bind themselves into contract with it.

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#2
Posted 12/18/2011 10:22 PM   
I call BS.
I call BS.

Done.

#3
Posted 12/19/2011 12:18 AM   
Now its just tempting to pirate it, just to prove a point.

I don't have any interest in this otherwise.
Now its just tempting to pirate it, just to prove a point.



I don't have any interest in this otherwise.

#4
Posted 12/19/2011 06:05 PM   
The thread title and article title are misleading, so is the tone and editorial.

The developer doesn't appear to be claiming that they can identify 100% of priates, only that they are sending letters to those that they have conclusively confirmed are pirates. I don't see anything wrong with that.[quote]“We’re addressing only 100% confirmed piracy causes that are 100% possible to prove,” said Michal Nowakowski, VP of Business Development for CD Project RED, via email.[/quote]

Amorphous

[quote name='NutZInTheHead' date='17 December 2011 - 06:23 PM' timestamp='1324174996' post='1343681']
big article in source below:
http://www.pcgamer.com/2011/12/15/the-witcher-2-devs-claim-100-accuracy-in-identifying-pirates-demand-money-from-thousands/
[/quote]
The thread title and article title are misleading, so is the tone and editorial.



The developer doesn't appear to be claiming that they can identify 100% of priates, only that they are sending letters to those that they have conclusively confirmed are pirates. I don't see anything wrong with that.
“We’re addressing only 100% confirmed piracy causes that are 100% possible to prove,” said Michal Nowakowski, VP of Business Development for CD Project RED, via email.




Amorphous



[quote name='NutZInTheHead' date='17 December 2011 - 06:23 PM' timestamp='1324174996' post='1343681']

big article in source below:

http://www.pcgamer.com/2011/12/15/the-witcher-2-devs-claim-100-accuracy-in-identifying-pirates-demand-money-from-thousands/

NVIDIA | Technical Marketing Manager
GeForce Forums - Special Counsel

#5
Posted 12/19/2011 09:31 PM   
[quote name='Amorphous@NVIDIA' date='19 December 2011 - 09:31 PM' timestamp='1324330304' post='1344384']
The thread title and article title are misleading, so is the tone and editorial.

The developer doesn't appear to be claiming that they can identify 100% of priates, only that they are sending letters to those that they have conclusively confirmed are pirates. I don't see anything wrong with that.

Amorphous
[/quote]

You see absolutely nothing wrong with making threats based on absolutely no due process whatsoever?

saying "we know they are pirates" and PROVING beyond a doubt that they are pirates are very different things.

And considering you live in a country that USED to value the concept of innocence until proven guilty, I would expect better......then again that is now part of your nations history.

Let us put it this way, you do not waste money and time sending out "legal notices" when you already know conclusively you have can prove without doubt that someone has engaged in piracy.

The statutes are VERY clear regarding this, and the penalties, if you CAN actually prove it, are extremely steep. You don't send someone a letter saying "we know what you did last summer"

You go STRAIGHT to a summons and a court appearance and then you rake in that cash big time, 100 grand per offence, AT LEAST.

The fact they are sending out threats, tends to suggest they have no proof, and are relying only on TACIT omissions of guilt.
[quote name='Amorphous@NVIDIA' date='19 December 2011 - 09:31 PM' timestamp='1324330304' post='1344384']

The thread title and article title are misleading, so is the tone and editorial.



The developer doesn't appear to be claiming that they can identify 100% of priates, only that they are sending letters to those that they have conclusively confirmed are pirates. I don't see anything wrong with that.



Amorphous





You see absolutely nothing wrong with making threats based on absolutely no due process whatsoever?



saying "we know they are pirates" and PROVING beyond a doubt that they are pirates are very different things.



And considering you live in a country that USED to value the concept of innocence until proven guilty, I would expect better......then again that is now part of your nations history.



Let us put it this way, you do not waste money and time sending out "legal notices" when you already know conclusively you have can prove without doubt that someone has engaged in piracy.



The statutes are VERY clear regarding this, and the penalties, if you CAN actually prove it, are extremely steep. You don't send someone a letter saying "we know what you did last summer"



You go STRAIGHT to a summons and a court appearance and then you rake in that cash big time, 100 grand per offence, AT LEAST.



The fact they are sending out threats, tends to suggest they have no proof, and are relying only on TACIT omissions of guilt.

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#6
Posted 12/19/2011 10:30 PM   
[quote name='Saijan Prince.' date='19 December 2011 - 05:30 PM' timestamp='1324333815' post='1344408']
You see absolutely nothing wrong with making threats based on absolutely no due process whatsoever?

saying "we know they are pirates" and PROVING beyond a doubt that they are pirates are very different things.

And considering you live in a country that USED to value the concept of innocence until proven guilty, I would expect better......then again that is now part of your nations history.

Let us put it this way, you do not waste money and time sending out "legal notices" when you already know conclusively you have can prove without doubt that someone has engaged in piracy.

The statutes are VERY clear regarding this, and the penalties, if you CAN actually prove it, are extremely steep. You don't send someone a letter saying "we know what you did last summer"

You go STRAIGHT to a summons and a court appearance and then you rake in that cash big time, 100 grand per offence, AT LEAST.

The fact they are sending out threats, tends to suggest they have no proof, and are relying only on TACIT omissions of guilt.
[/quote]

[i]Here we go again...[/i]

-Hooks
[quote name='Saijan Prince.' date='19 December 2011 - 05:30 PM' timestamp='1324333815' post='1344408']

You see absolutely nothing wrong with making threats based on absolutely no due process whatsoever?



saying "we know they are pirates" and PROVING beyond a doubt that they are pirates are very different things.



And considering you live in a country that USED to value the concept of innocence until proven guilty, I would expect better......then again that is now part of your nations history.



Let us put it this way, you do not waste money and time sending out "legal notices" when you already know conclusively you have can prove without doubt that someone has engaged in piracy.



The statutes are VERY clear regarding this, and the penalties, if you CAN actually prove it, are extremely steep. You don't send someone a letter saying "we know what you did last summer"



You go STRAIGHT to a summons and a court appearance and then you rake in that cash big time, 100 grand per offence, AT LEAST.



The fact they are sending out threats, tends to suggest they have no proof, and are relying only on TACIT omissions of guilt.





Here we go again...



-Hooks

QUOTE (The Professor @ Oct 31 2010, 04:59 AM)

*Jeremy Clarkson face*



So we must hand it over to our tame PC tweaker. Some say he sticky tapes a block of uranium to his dinner before eating it and that he sucks moisture out of ducks. All we know is, he's called Hooks.



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#7
Posted 12/19/2011 10:41 PM   
[quote name='Righthooks' date='19 December 2011 - 10:41 PM' timestamp='1324334483' post='1344414']
[i]Here we go again...[/i]

-Hooks
[/quote]

That is a bit un-called for don't you think hooks?

Are you even aware of what is going on in your own back yard buddie? cause it's seriously some scary sh*t.

"first they came for the jews - I did not speak out because I was not a jew"

"then they came for the blacks - I did not speak out because I was not black"

"then they came for the communists - I did not speak out because I was not a communist"

"then they came for hooks - I did not speak out because I was already in one of the government run FEMA camps, they came and got me on the first run, because hooks would not speak out"
[quote name='Righthooks' date='19 December 2011 - 10:41 PM' timestamp='1324334483' post='1344414']

Here we go again...



-Hooks





That is a bit un-called for don't you think hooks?



Are you even aware of what is going on in your own back yard buddie? cause it's seriously some scary sh*t.



"first they came for the jews - I did not speak out because I was not a jew"



"then they came for the blacks - I did not speak out because I was not black"



"then they came for the communists - I did not speak out because I was not a communist"



"then they came for hooks - I did not speak out because I was already in one of the government run FEMA camps, they came and got me on the first run, because hooks would not speak out"

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#8
Posted 12/19/2011 10:45 PM   
would you rather be given a 2nd chance saijan and pay for the game you pirated or get a 100k USD lawsuit up your ass? honestly they're being pretty condescending.

your post doenst surprise me anyway since you already admited to have pirated software and even encouraged other users to do so, worried that you might get such a letter? its only 60 bucks, its not a dark brotherhood contract.
would you rather be given a 2nd chance saijan and pay for the game you pirated or get a 100k USD lawsuit up your ass? honestly they're being pretty condescending.



your post doenst surprise me anyway since you already admited to have pirated software and even encouraged other users to do so, worried that you might get such a letter? its only 60 bucks, its not a dark brotherhood contract.

#9
Posted 12/19/2011 10:46 PM   
[quote name='Timer-' date='19 December 2011 - 10:46 PM' timestamp='1324334778' post='1344419']
would you rather be given a 2nd chance saijan and pay for the game you pirated or get a 100k USD lawsuit up your ass? honestly they're being pretty condescending.

your post doenst surprise me anyway since you already admited to have pirated software and even encouraged other users to do so, worried that you might get such a letter? its only 60 bucks, its not a dark brotherhood contract.
[/quote]

That is exactly the basis upon which it works - its an age old tactic used by governments and corporate tyrants everywhere, you make a threat, and make the threat "disappearable" with a sum of money large enough to make you afraid of worse circumstances, but small enough so that you can afford to actually pay it.

99 percent of people will fold under that kind of pressure because they are weak and ignorant.

Secondly, I did not pirate the Witcher 2, I paid full retail on release day for the game - because I heard from reputable sources, such as right hooks, that it was a very good game, and I do not regret paying for it either.

Thirdly, no, I am not worried I would get a letter.....why on earth would I be worried about that? apart from the fact I live in Australia? Even if they DID try and send me baseless legal threats, I would simply respond in law, with a higher arguement, and therefore nullify any controversy requiring adjudication. (as I have done in the past with numerous entities that claim falsely, and with no proof, that I owe them book keeping entries)

Lastly, it IS a dark brotherhood contract lol - you could not be any closer to the truth
[quote name='Timer-' date='19 December 2011 - 10:46 PM' timestamp='1324334778' post='1344419']

would you rather be given a 2nd chance saijan and pay for the game you pirated or get a 100k USD lawsuit up your ass? honestly they're being pretty condescending.



your post doenst surprise me anyway since you already admited to have pirated software and even encouraged other users to do so, worried that you might get such a letter? its only 60 bucks, its not a dark brotherhood contract.





That is exactly the basis upon which it works - its an age old tactic used by governments and corporate tyrants everywhere, you make a threat, and make the threat "disappearable" with a sum of money large enough to make you afraid of worse circumstances, but small enough so that you can afford to actually pay it.



99 percent of people will fold under that kind of pressure because they are weak and ignorant.



Secondly, I did not pirate the Witcher 2, I paid full retail on release day for the game - because I heard from reputable sources, such as right hooks, that it was a very good game, and I do not regret paying for it either.



Thirdly, no, I am not worried I would get a letter.....why on earth would I be worried about that? apart from the fact I live in Australia? Even if they DID try and send me baseless legal threats, I would simply respond in law, with a higher arguement, and therefore nullify any controversy requiring adjudication. (as I have done in the past with numerous entities that claim falsely, and with no proof, that I owe them book keeping entries)



Lastly, it IS a dark brotherhood contract lol - you could not be any closer to the truth

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#10
Posted 12/19/2011 10:53 PM   
[quote name='Timer-' date='19 December 2011 - 04:46 PM' timestamp='1324334778' post='1344419']
... pay for the game you pirated or get a 100k USD lawsuit up your ass?...
[/quote]

I'm pretty pissed that piracy has harsher penalties than larceny in the US personally. If one were to shoplift a game you get a $500 fine, but the minimum fine for P2P piracy is over $1000. The US government subsidizes the hell out of the gaming industry to boot which pisses me off even more...

Also I'm with the prince on this one (WTF?) --circumventing the courts with strong-arm tactics is BS. Evidence is for a jury to decide. [font="sans-serif"][size="2"]"[/size][/font][i]better that ten guilty persons escape than that one innocent suffer[/i][font="sans-serif"][size="2"]" Sir [/size][/font][font="sans-serif"][size="2"]William Blackstone, Commentaries on the Laws of England: 1765–1769 (one of the founding texts of the American Common Law)[/size][/font]
[quote name='Timer-' date='19 December 2011 - 04:46 PM' timestamp='1324334778' post='1344419']

... pay for the game you pirated or get a 100k USD lawsuit up your ass?...





I'm pretty pissed that piracy has harsher penalties than larceny in the US personally. If one were to shoplift a game you get a $500 fine, but the minimum fine for P2P piracy is over $1000. The US government subsidizes the hell out of the gaming industry to boot which pisses me off even more...



Also I'm with the prince on this one (WTF?) --circumventing the courts with strong-arm tactics is BS. Evidence is for a jury to decide. "better that ten guilty persons escape than that one innocent suffer" Sir William Blackstone, Commentaries on the Laws of England: 1765–1769 (one of the founding texts of the American Common Law)

Done.

#11
Posted 12/20/2011 12:02 AM   
It's never simple lol... But as quotes go; nowerdays I think I'm leaning towards "the needs of the few are outweighed by the needs of the many".
It's never simple lol... But as quotes go; nowerdays I think I'm leaning towards "the needs of the few are outweighed by the needs of the many".

I knew I hadn't imagined it... now it's deleted = people will never know what I hadn't imagined...

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#12
Posted 12/20/2011 12:34 AM   
[quote name='D1llw33d' date='20 December 2011 - 12:02 AM' timestamp='1324339353' post='1344444']
I'm pretty pissed that piracy has harsher penalties than larceny in the US personally. If one were to shoplift a game you get a $500 fine, but the minimum fine for P2P piracy is over $1000. The US government subsidizes the hell out of the gaming industry to boot which pisses me off even more...

Also I'm with the prince on this one (WTF?) --circumventing the courts with strong-arm tactics is BS. Evidence is for a jury to decide. [font="sans-serif"][size="2"]"[/size][/font][i]better that ten guilty persons escape than that one innocent suffer[/i][font="sans-serif"][size="2"]" Sir [/size][/font][font="sans-serif"][size="2"]William Blackstone, Commentaries on the Laws of England: 1765–1769 (one of the founding texts of the American Common Law)[/size][/font]
[/quote]

Considering the worlds foremost experts on IP addressing all agree there is NO WAY to be 100 percent certain that current methods of tracking pirates over IP address is accurate, I think we need to hear a little bit more than "promises" that they are attacking the right people.

Nobody is going to take this to court - nobody has the will or inclination to want to call their BS, and people are simply to afraid, when they get any "official" looking document in their post box they crap their daks and pay up quicker than you can say conspiracy theory.

And, if it did get taken to court, and it was still concealed as to how they gained this 'incontrovertable evidence' then we have an even bigger abomination on our hands.

They hired a physicist to explain how JFK ended up with multiple entry and exit wounds from a lone gunmen using a single shot bolt action rifle, fired from a repository window with no clear view of the target.

I am SURE they could come up with some equally as pathetic to explain how they know for a fact someone engaged in wilfull copyright infringement.
[quote name='D1llw33d' date='20 December 2011 - 12:02 AM' timestamp='1324339353' post='1344444']

I'm pretty pissed that piracy has harsher penalties than larceny in the US personally. If one were to shoplift a game you get a $500 fine, but the minimum fine for P2P piracy is over $1000. The US government subsidizes the hell out of the gaming industry to boot which pisses me off even more...



Also I'm with the prince on this one (WTF?) --circumventing the courts with strong-arm tactics is BS. Evidence is for a jury to decide. "better that ten guilty persons escape than that one innocent suffer" Sir William Blackstone, Commentaries on the Laws of England: 1765–1769 (one of the founding texts of the American Common Law)





Considering the worlds foremost experts on IP addressing all agree there is NO WAY to be 100 percent certain that current methods of tracking pirates over IP address is accurate, I think we need to hear a little bit more than "promises" that they are attacking the right people.



Nobody is going to take this to court - nobody has the will or inclination to want to call their BS, and people are simply to afraid, when they get any "official" looking document in their post box they crap their daks and pay up quicker than you can say conspiracy theory.



And, if it did get taken to court, and it was still concealed as to how they gained this 'incontrovertable evidence' then we have an even bigger abomination on our hands.



They hired a physicist to explain how JFK ended up with multiple entry and exit wounds from a lone gunmen using a single shot bolt action rifle, fired from a repository window with no clear view of the target.



I am SURE they could come up with some equally as pathetic to explain how they know for a fact someone engaged in wilfull copyright infringement.

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#13
Posted 12/20/2011 12:43 AM   
I agree with prince sometimes. I just think he says it in a manner specifically molded to irritate people.
I agree with prince sometimes. I just think he says it in a manner specifically molded to irritate people.



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#14
Posted 12/20/2011 02:49 AM   
issue #1 Disclosure-

under the rules of law the company has to disclose all means used (method or methods used to determine identity)

It's against the law to not disclose - when suing or going to court (the plantiff has the right to know by discovery the method use to determine identity to defend against it

once disclosed it it's now public and NO SECRET - it becomes a matter of public record

#2 IP does not mean Identity

the IP may(but does not for certain) determine a possible local where someone may have used the IP

issues here are -
WIFI -HOTSPOTs -
open wifi ports (people who have unknownly have open ports)
hotels with clients that use internet
WI-FI router that have been hacked by people in the area
Neighbors/kids/relatives/visitors and anyone who has access to the house (unknown to you - DL without permission)

the law states you have to know for certain the user before a lawsuit occurs - IP is NO CERTAINTY
otherwise you are taking to court an innocent person ...and the suit would be deemed extortion

it's why the case in England led to the law firm being Punished by the court and the overseeing bar


if you borrow your car to a neighbor( because his breaks down) - he robs a bank(unknownlig to you with your car)
you get charge with armed robbery (and murder if someone dies) for borrowing a car?

imagine if your kid took it and you were charged?
imagine if it was stolen?

not likely? - this is what the companies don't get


#3: data kept by the Cable/Telephone/DSL is not accurate

- data has 10% error rate - data input error from company worker
-data is time encoded on different servers - servers are not necessarily in sink - therefore - time date can be as much as 5-10% off

-IP's are not all static they roam -if your time stamp for your request if off by a few seconds you can get the wrong device (and therefore wrong user)

Collection software is made by humans and have errors in - all software does

so work by numbers

5-10% data input error
10% software error
10% time error
multiple machines - in both companies

it could be very well be less than even odds you have the correct person

-furthermore they are not law enforcement and don't employ forensic storage and tracking (that would be required for law enforcement)

that means people must pass muster for past criminal activities - if you are getting into collecting information for lawsuits the comapny must no employ possible issues of criminal activity - including employee's past criminal behavior


just imagine if your employment was based on how many people you can catch - and if your numbers are low you get fired or laid off
(people fudging data to keep jobs??)


4: is some countries it's illegal to log that data -

and collecting it unless you are law enforcement would be illegal

this company if tracking here(in my country - Canada) is breaking the law

Privacy laws are are in place to protect consumers from illegal tactics and spying
similarly - some states in the US have said the same thing

meaning they can't collect - only law enforcement can
issue #1 Disclosure-



under the rules of law the company has to disclose all means used (method or methods used to determine identity)



It's against the law to not disclose - when suing or going to court (the plantiff has the right to know by discovery the method use to determine identity to defend against it



once disclosed it it's now public and NO SECRET - it becomes a matter of public record



#2 IP does not mean Identity



the IP may(but does not for certain) determine a possible local where someone may have used the IP



issues here are -

WIFI -HOTSPOTs -

open wifi ports (people who have unknownly have open ports)

hotels with clients that use internet

WI-FI router that have been hacked by people in the area

Neighbors/kids/relatives/visitors and anyone who has access to the house (unknown to you - DL without permission)



the law states you have to know for certain the user before a lawsuit occurs - IP is NO CERTAINTY

otherwise you are taking to court an innocent person ...and the suit would be deemed extortion



it's why the case in England led to the law firm being Punished by the court and the overseeing bar





if you borrow your car to a neighbor( because his breaks down) - he robs a bank(unknownlig to you with your car)

you get charge with armed robbery (and murder if someone dies) for borrowing a car?



imagine if your kid took it and you were charged?

imagine if it was stolen?



not likely? - this is what the companies don't get





#3: data kept by the Cable/Telephone/DSL is not accurate



- data has 10% error rate - data input error from company worker

-data is time encoded on different servers - servers are not necessarily in sink - therefore - time date can be as much as 5-10% off



-IP's are not all static they roam -if your time stamp for your request if off by a few seconds you can get the wrong device (and therefore wrong user)



Collection software is made by humans and have errors in - all software does



so work by numbers



5-10% data input error

10% software error

10% time error

multiple machines - in both companies



it could be very well be less than even odds you have the correct person



-furthermore they are not law enforcement and don't employ forensic storage and tracking (that would be required for law enforcement)



that means people must pass muster for past criminal activities - if you are getting into collecting information for lawsuits the comapny must no employ possible issues of criminal activity - including employee's past criminal behavior





just imagine if your employment was based on how many people you can catch - and if your numbers are low you get fired or laid off

(people fudging data to keep jobs??)





4: is some countries it's illegal to log that data -



and collecting it unless you are law enforcement would be illegal



this company if tracking here(in my country - Canada) is breaking the law



Privacy laws are are in place to protect consumers from illegal tactics and spying

similarly - some states in the US have said the same thing



meaning they can't collect - only law enforcement can



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#15
Posted 12/20/2011 02:54 AM   
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