Why do *ALL* dx11 games run so terribly?
  1 / 2    
I've noticed a disturbing trend, with every set of drivers i've tried. Every game that has a "DX11" feature runs at ridiculously unacceptable framerates -
Batman: AC is a good example of this. Using DX11 in this game renders it literally unplayable, while I get 150+ fps in DX9 mode.

Is this the norm for DX11? What gives, are there any developers around here that can chime in on this? This happened with Dragon Age 2, where very high DX11 settings
would literally halve your framerate vs DX9. But the thing is , it didn't look any different.

Is DX11 just garbage or what? I've yet to see a DX11 implementation that isn't completely terrible performance wise. Please someone, anyone, any devs out there, clue us in.

Why do DX11 titles across the board suck and perform so poorly compared to Dx9?
I've noticed a disturbing trend, with every set of drivers i've tried. Every game that has a "DX11" feature runs at ridiculously unacceptable framerates -

Batman: AC is a good example of this. Using DX11 in this game renders it literally unplayable, while I get 150+ fps in DX9 mode.



Is this the norm for DX11? What gives, are there any developers around here that can chime in on this? This happened with Dragon Age 2, where very high DX11 settings

would literally halve your framerate vs DX9. But the thing is , it didn't look any different.



Is DX11 just garbage or what? I've yet to see a DX11 implementation that isn't completely terrible performance wise. Please someone, anyone, any devs out there, clue us in.



Why do DX11 titles across the board suck and perform so poorly compared to Dx9?

#1
Posted 11/22/2011 01:32 PM   
my dx 11 games run fantastic...maybe your pc ain't upto par...list your specs.
my dx 11 games run fantastic...maybe your pc ain't upto par...list your specs.

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#2
Posted 11/22/2011 01:50 PM   
DirectX 11 does much more complex stuff in its rendering.

In this Wikipedia article scroll down to where it discusses DirectX 11.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DirectX
DirectX 11 does much more complex stuff in its rendering.



In this Wikipedia article scroll down to where it discusses DirectX 11.



http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DirectX

EVGA GTX 780, Haswell 4770K cpu@3.9 GHz, 16GB RAM, Win 8.1 Pro 64-bit, ASUS Maximus VI Hero motherboard, 250 GB SSD drive, 750W PC Power & Cooling power supply, Samsung 46" LED 1080p TV @60Hz, Soundblaster Z PCI-e.

#3
Posted 11/22/2011 01:54 PM   
[quote name='MontyQ' date='22 November 2011 - 08:50 AM' timestamp='1321969834' post='1330925']
my dx 11 games run fantastic...maybe your pc ain't upto par...list your specs.
[/quote]


SLI GTX 580's, 2600k overclocked to 4.8, crucial m4 SSD

I'm mainly venting about Batman: AC because it runs terribly in DX11. 90 fps hit in many areas with the included in game benchmark for using DX11 vs DX9. Also, dragon age 2 has a huge fps penalty for DX11 vs DX9. Now I can run that game at 60 fps but it runs at 150 fps in DX9, but 70ish at very high DX11. It doesn't look much different -- why does DX11 incur such a performance hit? All of my games run fine but without exception DX11 incurs massive performance penalties without a corresponding huge increase in visual fidelity.
[quote name='MontyQ' date='22 November 2011 - 08:50 AM' timestamp='1321969834' post='1330925']

my dx 11 games run fantastic...maybe your pc ain't upto par...list your specs.







SLI GTX 580's, 2600k overclocked to 4.8, crucial m4 SSD



I'm mainly venting about Batman: AC because it runs terribly in DX11. 90 fps hit in many areas with the included in game benchmark for using DX11 vs DX9. Also, dragon age 2 has a huge fps penalty for DX11 vs DX9. Now I can run that game at 60 fps but it runs at 150 fps in DX9, but 70ish at very high DX11. It doesn't look much different -- why does DX11 incur such a performance hit? All of my games run fine but without exception DX11 incurs massive performance penalties without a corresponding huge increase in visual fidelity.

#4
Posted 11/22/2011 01:55 PM   
[quote name='Infinity7' date='22 November 2011 - 08:54 AM' timestamp='1321970071' post='1330927']
DirectX 11 does much more complex stuff in its rendering.

In this Wikipedia article scroll down to where it discusses DirectX 11.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DirectX
[/quote]

When DX11 incurs such a huge performance hit in a few games, I expect a corresponding increase in visual fidelity. The increased IQ is there but its hardly justification for so many games to get a halved framerate just for DX11. Maybe the API sucks.

I should add that I play on a 120hz monitor and I expect SLI 580's to run everything I throw at them at full detail. And preferably 90+ fps. I've noticed that DX11 settings in Batman : AC and Dragon Age 2 lowers the framerate INCREDIBLY without much increase in image quality. I just don't get it. And batman: AC struggles to hit 30 fps in some areas with the included in game benchmark with SLI'ed 580's, that is ridiculous. Period.
[quote name='Infinity7' date='22 November 2011 - 08:54 AM' timestamp='1321970071' post='1330927']

DirectX 11 does much more complex stuff in its rendering.



In this Wikipedia article scroll down to where it discusses DirectX 11.



http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DirectX





When DX11 incurs such a huge performance hit in a few games, I expect a corresponding increase in visual fidelity. The increased IQ is there but its hardly justification for so many games to get a halved framerate just for DX11. Maybe the API sucks.



I should add that I play on a 120hz monitor and I expect SLI 580's to run everything I throw at them at full detail. And preferably 90+ fps. I've noticed that DX11 settings in Batman : AC and Dragon Age 2 lowers the framerate INCREDIBLY without much increase in image quality. I just don't get it. And batman: AC struggles to hit 30 fps in some areas with the included in game benchmark with SLI'ed 580's, that is ridiculous. Period.

#5
Posted 11/22/2011 01:56 PM   
[quote name='xoleras' date='22 November 2011 - 05:56 AM' timestamp='1321970208' post='1330930']
When DX11 incurs such a huge performance hit in a few games, I expect a corresponding increase in visual fidelity. The increased IQ is there but its hardly justification for so many games to get a halved framerate just for DX11. Maybe the API sucks.

I should add that I play on a 120hz monitor and I expect SLI 580's to run everything I throw at them at full detail. And preferably 90+ fps. I've noticed that DX11 settings in Batman : AC and Dragon Age 2 lowers the framerate INCREDIBLY without much increase in image quality. I just don't get it.
[/quote]

You're right the DirectX 11 games have better IQ.
ManuelG has said before that SLI heuristics always come from the game developers rather than from NVidia.
NVidia has to wait for the game developer to get their act together with the SLI.

A lot of recent games are "console ports".
Console games are coded to use a lot of CPU and not much GPU.
PC's games have typically been the opposite of this.
In order to get good fps your CPU has to push a lot of data to the GPU.
In order to get good fps you need sufficient GPU-usage.
Game developers usually program their game in such a way that a PC with a single videocard will get from 30 - 99% GPU-usage.
For a SLI systems divide that by 2 and expect about 15 - 49% GPU-usage.

Some games you can increase GPU-usage by increasing the maxfps setting if it has one or by increasing the amount of AA the game is doing.
Some games you can decrease the amount of slowdowns by disabling Depth of Field, Shadows, and Ambient Occlusion.
Some games which have are "console ports" can be improved by overclocking your CPU so that it pushes more data to the GPU(s).
[quote name='xoleras' date='22 November 2011 - 05:56 AM' timestamp='1321970208' post='1330930']

When DX11 incurs such a huge performance hit in a few games, I expect a corresponding increase in visual fidelity. The increased IQ is there but its hardly justification for so many games to get a halved framerate just for DX11. Maybe the API sucks.



I should add that I play on a 120hz monitor and I expect SLI 580's to run everything I throw at them at full detail. And preferably 90+ fps. I've noticed that DX11 settings in Batman : AC and Dragon Age 2 lowers the framerate INCREDIBLY without much increase in image quality. I just don't get it.





You're right the DirectX 11 games have better IQ.

ManuelG has said before that SLI heuristics always come from the game developers rather than from NVidia.

NVidia has to wait for the game developer to get their act together with the SLI.



A lot of recent games are "console ports".

Console games are coded to use a lot of CPU and not much GPU.

PC's games have typically been the opposite of this.

In order to get good fps your CPU has to push a lot of data to the GPU.

In order to get good fps you need sufficient GPU-usage.

Game developers usually program their game in such a way that a PC with a single videocard will get from 30 - 99% GPU-usage.

For a SLI systems divide that by 2 and expect about 15 - 49% GPU-usage.



Some games you can increase GPU-usage by increasing the maxfps setting if it has one or by increasing the amount of AA the game is doing.

Some games you can decrease the amount of slowdowns by disabling Depth of Field, Shadows, and Ambient Occlusion.

Some games which have are "console ports" can be improved by overclocking your CPU so that it pushes more data to the GPU(s).

EVGA GTX 780, Haswell 4770K cpu@3.9 GHz, 16GB RAM, Win 8.1 Pro 64-bit, ASUS Maximus VI Hero motherboard, 250 GB SSD drive, 750W PC Power & Cooling power supply, Samsung 46" LED 1080p TV @60Hz, Soundblaster Z PCI-e.

#6
Posted 11/22/2011 02:14 PM   
my games run very well in DX 11
my games run very well in DX 11

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#7
Posted 11/22/2011 02:26 PM   
[quote name='JLH' date='22 November 2011 - 09:26 AM' timestamp='1321971976' post='1330947']
my games run very well in DX 11
[/quote]

Play batman : AC then and tell us that. Or tell us what your framerate in DA2 at very high DX11 vs DX9 is.

Fact of the matter is that DX11 is a pig with very minor IQ increases but substantial performance hits. I'm not sure who's to blame here, the API or developers. The DX11 implementation in Batman: AC is utter garbage....this game should run great on SLI 580's but doesn't in DX11.

The bottom line is I want to know why DX11 in some games incurs such a massive performance hit without providing much of an image quality increase. I mean really, I can't notice much difference between high and very high in DA2 and the difference between Dx9 and DX11 in batman: AC is negligible. Yet Batman gets a halved framerate for no apparent reason. Same for DA2, halved framerate. For what? No difference? Who's to blame for this nonsense? For a halved framerate it should look signifigantly better.

I'd like to think 1000$ worth of GPU's should play everything cranked up at 90+ fps. I guess not.
[quote name='JLH' date='22 November 2011 - 09:26 AM' timestamp='1321971976' post='1330947']

my games run very well in DX 11





Play batman : AC then and tell us that. Or tell us what your framerate in DA2 at very high DX11 vs DX9 is.



Fact of the matter is that DX11 is a pig with very minor IQ increases but substantial performance hits. I'm not sure who's to blame here, the API or developers. The DX11 implementation in Batman: AC is utter garbage....this game should run great on SLI 580's but doesn't in DX11.



The bottom line is I want to know why DX11 in some games incurs such a massive performance hit without providing much of an image quality increase. I mean really, I can't notice much difference between high and very high in DA2 and the difference between Dx9 and DX11 in batman: AC is negligible. Yet Batman gets a halved framerate for no apparent reason. Same for DA2, halved framerate. For what? No difference? Who's to blame for this nonsense? For a halved framerate it should look signifigantly better.



I'd like to think 1000$ worth of GPU's should play everything cranked up at 90+ fps. I guess not.

#8
Posted 11/22/2011 02:44 PM   
[quote name='xoleras' date='22 November 2011 - 06:44 AM' timestamp='1321973068' post='1330951']
Play batman : AC then and tell us that. Or tell us what your framerate in DA2 at very high DX11 vs DX9 is.

Fact of the matter is that DX11 is a pig with very minor IQ increases but substantial performance hits. I'm not sure who's to blame here, the API or developers. The DX11 implementation in Batman: AC is utter garbage....this game should run great on SLI 580's but doesn't in DX11.

The bottom line is I want to know why DX11 in some games incurs such a massive performance hit without providing much of an image quality increase. I mean really, I can't notice much difference between high and very high in DA2 and the difference between Dx9 and DX11 in batman: AC is negligible. Yet Batman gets a halved framerate for no apparent reason. Same for DA2, halved framerate. For what? No difference? Who's to blame for this nonsense? For a halved framerate it should look signifigantly better.

I'd like to think 1000$ worth of GPU's should play everything cranked up at 90+ fps. I guess not.
[/quote]
you are correct on everything you said.
myself i don't have batman or da2 as i only play fps or racing games.
it is more than likely a problem with the games as crysis2 and alien vs predator run great on my machine.
but i have also asked myself in the past why did i get rid of my GTX 295 for 580's just for dx11 when only a couple of my games use it and allmost all newer games run like poo in dx11.
when the dx11 patch came out for crysis2 it ran like poo on my machine untill i spent a good hour trying to find the perfect graphics settings to run it in dx11. and yes i have over a thousand bucks invested in my cards and i really don't see a difference from my GTX 295 with my eyes anyway as i don't run and perfomance monitoring software, i just judge my games performance from what i see on the screen so kinda a waist of my money in my 580's
[quote name='xoleras' date='22 November 2011 - 06:44 AM' timestamp='1321973068' post='1330951']

Play batman : AC then and tell us that. Or tell us what your framerate in DA2 at very high DX11 vs DX9 is.



Fact of the matter is that DX11 is a pig with very minor IQ increases but substantial performance hits. I'm not sure who's to blame here, the API or developers. The DX11 implementation in Batman: AC is utter garbage....this game should run great on SLI 580's but doesn't in DX11.



The bottom line is I want to know why DX11 in some games incurs such a massive performance hit without providing much of an image quality increase. I mean really, I can't notice much difference between high and very high in DA2 and the difference between Dx9 and DX11 in batman: AC is negligible. Yet Batman gets a halved framerate for no apparent reason. Same for DA2, halved framerate. For what? No difference? Who's to blame for this nonsense? For a halved framerate it should look signifigantly better.



I'd like to think 1000$ worth of GPU's should play everything cranked up at 90+ fps. I guess not.



you are correct on everything you said.

myself i don't have batman or da2 as i only play fps or racing games.

it is more than likely a problem with the games as crysis2 and alien vs predator run great on my machine.

but i have also asked myself in the past why did i get rid of my GTX 295 for 580's just for dx11 when only a couple of my games use it and allmost all newer games run like poo in dx11.

when the dx11 patch came out for crysis2 it ran like poo on my machine untill i spent a good hour trying to find the perfect graphics settings to run it in dx11. and yes i have over a thousand bucks invested in my cards and i really don't see a difference from my GTX 295 with my eyes anyway as i don't run and perfomance monitoring software, i just judge my games performance from what i see on the screen so kinda a waist of my money in my 580's

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#9
Posted 11/22/2011 03:37 PM   
Whats even more annoying is that Batman AC is a nvidia "the way its meant to be played" title. Yet it is a dog in DX11 even on sli'ed 580's? How would nvidia let that happen for a promo title?

I've tried a few tweaks here and there to no avail.
Whats even more annoying is that Batman AC is a nvidia "the way its meant to be played" title. Yet it is a dog in DX11 even on sli'ed 580's? How would nvidia let that happen for a promo title?



I've tried a few tweaks here and there to no avail.

#10
Posted 11/22/2011 03:39 PM   
I knew "the way its meant to be played" logo has been BS for years... which is why I have no brand loyalty, which is why I choose whatever GPU (Nvidia or AMD) that is in a set category and price configuration based on my own specifications.

I don't know how many games of both manufacturers actually ran better on the non advertised competitor.
I knew "the way its meant to be played" logo has been BS for years... which is why I have no brand loyalty, which is why I choose whatever GPU (Nvidia or AMD) that is in a set category and price configuration based on my own specifications.



I don't know how many games of both manufacturers actually ran better on the non advertised competitor.

#11
Posted 11/22/2011 05:22 PM   
Well you have to understand that the main feature most people use DX11 for is tessellation and depth of field, which requires many times more horsepower than DX9 texture rendering.

I just think the current hardware just started to scratch the surface of this tech in term of performance.

I'm also assuming developers, nowadays, are just releasing their games with DX11 using high resolution textures without optimizing them for performance.
Well you have to understand that the main feature most people use DX11 for is tessellation and depth of field, which requires many times more horsepower than DX9 texture rendering.



I just think the current hardware just started to scratch the surface of this tech in term of performance.



I'm also assuming developers, nowadays, are just releasing their games with DX11 using high resolution textures without optimizing them for performance.

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#12
Posted 11/22/2011 05:31 PM   
[quote name='Infinity7' date='22 November 2011 - 09:14 AM' timestamp='1321971260' post='1330939']
You're right the DirectX 11 games have better IQ.
ManuelG has said before that SLI heuristics always come from the game developers rather than from NVidia.
NVidia has to wait for the game developer to get their act together with the SLI.

A lot of recent games are "console ports".
Console games are coded to use a lot of CPU and not much GPU.
PC's games have typically been the opposite of this.
In order to get good fps your CPU has to push a lot of data to the GPU.
In order to get good fps you need sufficient GPU-usage.
Game developers usually program their game in such a way that a PC with a single videocard will get from 30 - 99% GPU-usage.
For a SLI systems divide that by 2 and expect about 15 - 49% GPU-usage.

Some games you can increase GPU-usage by increasing the maxfps setting if it has one or by increasing the amount of AA the game is doing.
Some games you can decrease the amount of slowdowns by disabling Depth of Field, Shadows, and Ambient Occlusion.
Some games which have are "console ports" can be improved by overclocking your CPU so that it pushes more data to the GPU(s).
[/quote]


and this is why people hate consoles cause there the reason why our pc game run like **** cause the dev program the game for the lesser denominator instead the higher which is the pc, imo all games should be ports of PC games. cause it the console tech that sucks not the pc's. and man reason why i stopped buy my pc games is cause there crappy ports of console games.
[quote name='Infinity7' date='22 November 2011 - 09:14 AM' timestamp='1321971260' post='1330939']

You're right the DirectX 11 games have better IQ.

ManuelG has said before that SLI heuristics always come from the game developers rather than from NVidia.

NVidia has to wait for the game developer to get their act together with the SLI.



A lot of recent games are "console ports".

Console games are coded to use a lot of CPU and not much GPU.

PC's games have typically been the opposite of this.

In order to get good fps your CPU has to push a lot of data to the GPU.

In order to get good fps you need sufficient GPU-usage.

Game developers usually program their game in such a way that a PC with a single videocard will get from 30 - 99% GPU-usage.

For a SLI systems divide that by 2 and expect about 15 - 49% GPU-usage.



Some games you can increase GPU-usage by increasing the maxfps setting if it has one or by increasing the amount of AA the game is doing.

Some games you can decrease the amount of slowdowns by disabling Depth of Field, Shadows, and Ambient Occlusion.

Some games which have are "console ports" can be improved by overclocking your CPU so that it pushes more data to the GPU(s).







and this is why people hate consoles cause there the reason why our pc game run like **** cause the dev program the game for the lesser denominator instead the higher which is the pc, imo all games should be ports of PC games. cause it the console tech that sucks not the pc's. and man reason why i stopped buy my pc games is cause there crappy ports of console games.

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#13
Posted 11/22/2011 06:06 PM   
Batman Arkham City is apparently one big fat pile of stuttering garbage, just like any U3E + physx combo game.



Nvidia get the f. out with your ancient physx crap, same goes for U3E streaming stutter in some U3E games and yea Batman AC is one of them AGAIN! Just like Batman AA!


lol what a joke, retards.


//rant.
Batman Arkham City is apparently one big fat pile of stuttering garbage, just like any U3E + physx combo game.







Nvidia get the f. out with your ancient physx crap, same goes for U3E streaming stutter in some U3E games and yea Batman AC is one of them AGAIN! Just like Batman AA!





lol what a joke, retards.





//rant.

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Image

#14
Posted 11/22/2011 09:30 PM   
[quote name='bLuDrGn' date='22 November 2011 - 09:31 AM' timestamp='1321983062' post='1331042']
Well you have to understand that the main feature most people use DX11 for is tessellation and depth of field, which requires many times more horsepower than DX9 texture rendering.

I just think the current hardware just started to scratch the surface of this tech in term of performance.

I'm also assuming developers, nowadays, are just releasing their games with DX11 using high resolution textures without optimizing them for performance.
[/quote]

Yeah, this is true. Here's something to try. Install the free Heaven 2.5 benchmark. Run it once in Dx 9 then run it once in Dx 11 then run it again with Dx 11 and this time stretch out all of the tessellation sliders to the max and see what happens, but don't run it this last way for very long.
[quote name='bLuDrGn' date='22 November 2011 - 09:31 AM' timestamp='1321983062' post='1331042']

Well you have to understand that the main feature most people use DX11 for is tessellation and depth of field, which requires many times more horsepower than DX9 texture rendering.



I just think the current hardware just started to scratch the surface of this tech in term of performance.



I'm also assuming developers, nowadays, are just releasing their games with DX11 using high resolution textures without optimizing them for performance.





Yeah, this is true. Here's something to try. Install the free Heaven 2.5 benchmark. Run it once in Dx 9 then run it once in Dx 11 then run it again with Dx 11 and this time stretch out all of the tessellation sliders to the max and see what happens, but don't run it this last way for very long.

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#15
Posted 11/22/2011 10:02 PM   
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