Bad Ghosting and crosshair issues
So I recently purchased Nvidia 3d vision aswell as a new computer for it (my old one was alright but I like to max things out).

My problem is, I seem to suffer from terrible ghosting. I have seen fixes for "Top 20% ghosting" but this is most definately anywhere on the screen it feels like.

It is most definately related to bright objects and backgrounds, particularly light sources.

I suffer this on many games (but not all) which leads me to believe it is not a hardware fault, but infact a driver or software issue or something along those lines. It is most visible in 110 hz and 120 hz, it is still visible at 100 hz but definately not as prevalent as the other modes. However, I find 100 hz a bit of an eye strain, I can't really explain it since it doesn't flicker on 100 hz but it does on 110 hz, and no flicker on 120 hz. Is that normal?

I can reduce depth, which obviously helps, since it brings the pictures closer together, but all that is doing is basically removing the "3Dness" so seems a bit defeatist to me.

Sample picture: http://www.mediafire.com/?l3yjuuduuup9oq0

For me this shows it pretty severe in this screenshot, its not always this bad but this is the best example. I actually see ghosting on both eyes in this image altho its usually only visible in 1 eye if I close them alternatively to test it.

I also have another issue, mainly with gun sights and crosshairs and on even 3D ready games. The problem is that the crosshair or gun sights render totally incorrectly. Now, sometimes its fine, like in Crysis, the crosshair is generally fine, but occasionally it goes "double vision" on me, where I can blatantly see 2 crosshairs in seperate places. I have no problems seeing the actual depth in the 3d models etc but I get major issues with crosshairs. The games I have noticed this on so far are Crysis 2, Metro 2033, Battlefield: Bad Company 2, Fallout New Vegas, Starcraft 2.

I am unsure exactly how to explain the crosshair problem. I basically see double crosshairs occasionally, but sometimes its fine, it will just randomly switch between being fine and normal, to being insanely hard to focus on. I have watched it do this switching back and forth with absolutely no input from myself. I also have seen it do it when I aim at a closer object or at a further object, on fallout new vegas I can replicate it easily by just aiming at something close to me, so I guess I can put that down to rendering at the wrong depth on close objects, but its not always on close objects and also happens randomly. One of the worst cases of this I have has to be Starcraft 2. One minute the cursor is fine, I can see it fine, I can click things fine, then it will randomly go "double vision" on me as if its suddenly rendering wrongly, then it will randomly (usually briefly) go back to normal. Why does the cursor on Starcraft 2 even need to change at all? This happens on all games with a 3d crosshair, including the Nvidia one.

On Metro 2033, some of the guns are fine, like the pistol, but the "bum gun" for example or the gun you start with before you go back in time 8 days, has an absolutely horrendous aim down sights which is very hard to make out. I will take some more screens and add them shortly and see if you see the same issues I do.

Are these problems just me? Or do others suffer the same thing? Does anyone have any tips for fixing these? I'll be honest the crosshair thing peeves me more than the ghosting, since the ghosting only seems to happen in areas with bright lights (even bright but small torches do it) and the crosshair/cursor issue happens all the time, anywhere it feels like.

My system specs:

i7 930
6GB DDR3
GTX 480
Asus VG236H 23-inch

Edit: More screenshots -
http://www.mediafire.com/?iigcqe392v3n0qg
http://www.mediafire.com/?rp6kszr27664m6j - this one shows both ghosting and the horrendous aim down sights (I get this EXACT issue with 3D READY GAMES like BFBC2, Metro 2033 and Crysis 2 altho thats not 3d ready it works good apart from the crosshairs, it happens with iron sights and also with the Nvidia 3d crosshair, altho the Nvidia one apparently doesn't show in their screenshots)
So I recently purchased Nvidia 3d vision aswell as a new computer for it (my old one was alright but I like to max things out).



My problem is, I seem to suffer from terrible ghosting. I have seen fixes for "Top 20% ghosting" but this is most definately anywhere on the screen it feels like.



It is most definately related to bright objects and backgrounds, particularly light sources.



I suffer this on many games (but not all) which leads me to believe it is not a hardware fault, but infact a driver or software issue or something along those lines. It is most visible in 110 hz and 120 hz, it is still visible at 100 hz but definately not as prevalent as the other modes. However, I find 100 hz a bit of an eye strain, I can't really explain it since it doesn't flicker on 100 hz but it does on 110 hz, and no flicker on 120 hz. Is that normal?



I can reduce depth, which obviously helps, since it brings the pictures closer together, but all that is doing is basically removing the "3Dness" so seems a bit defeatist to me.



Sample picture: http://www.mediafire.com/?l3yjuuduuup9oq0



For me this shows it pretty severe in this screenshot, its not always this bad but this is the best example. I actually see ghosting on both eyes in this image altho its usually only visible in 1 eye if I close them alternatively to test it.



I also have another issue, mainly with gun sights and crosshairs and on even 3D ready games. The problem is that the crosshair or gun sights render totally incorrectly. Now, sometimes its fine, like in Crysis, the crosshair is generally fine, but occasionally it goes "double vision" on me, where I can blatantly see 2 crosshairs in seperate places. I have no problems seeing the actual depth in the 3d models etc but I get major issues with crosshairs. The games I have noticed this on so far are Crysis 2, Metro 2033, Battlefield: Bad Company 2, Fallout New Vegas, Starcraft 2.



I am unsure exactly how to explain the crosshair problem. I basically see double crosshairs occasionally, but sometimes its fine, it will just randomly switch between being fine and normal, to being insanely hard to focus on. I have watched it do this switching back and forth with absolutely no input from myself. I also have seen it do it when I aim at a closer object or at a further object, on fallout new vegas I can replicate it easily by just aiming at something close to me, so I guess I can put that down to rendering at the wrong depth on close objects, but its not always on close objects and also happens randomly. One of the worst cases of this I have has to be Starcraft 2. One minute the cursor is fine, I can see it fine, I can click things fine, then it will randomly go "double vision" on me as if its suddenly rendering wrongly, then it will randomly (usually briefly) go back to normal. Why does the cursor on Starcraft 2 even need to change at all? This happens on all games with a 3d crosshair, including the Nvidia one.



On Metro 2033, some of the guns are fine, like the pistol, but the "bum gun" for example or the gun you start with before you go back in time 8 days, has an absolutely horrendous aim down sights which is very hard to make out. I will take some more screens and add them shortly and see if you see the same issues I do.



Are these problems just me? Or do others suffer the same thing? Does anyone have any tips for fixing these? I'll be honest the crosshair thing peeves me more than the ghosting, since the ghosting only seems to happen in areas with bright lights (even bright but small torches do it) and the crosshair/cursor issue happens all the time, anywhere it feels like.



My system specs:



i7 930

6GB DDR3

GTX 480

Asus VG236H 23-inch



Edit: More screenshots -

http://www.mediafire.com/?iigcqe392v3n0qg

http://www.mediafire.com/?rp6kszr27664m6j
- this one shows both ghosting and the horrendous aim down sights (I get this EXACT issue with 3D READY GAMES like BFBC2, Metro 2033 and Crysis 2 altho thats not 3d ready it works good apart from the crosshairs, it happens with iron sights and also with the Nvidia 3d crosshair, altho the Nvidia one apparently doesn't show in their screenshots)

#1
Posted 05/09/2011 09:02 PM   
Ok, so apparently you probably all won't be able to see my ghosting, because after I turned the contrast down it seems much lessened, almost gone to an extent in some of those screenshots I took. The crosshair/cursor issue is still present tho. Its as if its rendering at the wrong depth, or that the depth of the cursor is not changing to take into account closer objects etc. On Crysis 2 I have visibly watched the 'sniper scope' zoom go from double vision, back to normal, to double vision with absolutely no input.

Is there any way I can check perhaps if my nvidia crosshair files are corrupt or something? From what I have read, the 3d ready games (even those that don't use the nvidia crosshair) use its code for depth, could this be corrupted or have some broken setting?

Also the problem with iron sights is present even in 3d ready games, where it just does not seem to render the iron sight in any kind of sensible way, so all I get is weird looking sights, only Crysis 2 seems to have got the iron sights correct for me so far, but it suffers from the depth rendering issue on normal crosshairs and sniper scopes.
Ok, so apparently you probably all won't be able to see my ghosting, because after I turned the contrast down it seems much lessened, almost gone to an extent in some of those screenshots I took. The crosshair/cursor issue is still present tho. Its as if its rendering at the wrong depth, or that the depth of the cursor is not changing to take into account closer objects etc. On Crysis 2 I have visibly watched the 'sniper scope' zoom go from double vision, back to normal, to double vision with absolutely no input.



Is there any way I can check perhaps if my nvidia crosshair files are corrupt or something? From what I have read, the 3d ready games (even those that don't use the nvidia crosshair) use its code for depth, could this be corrupted or have some broken setting?



Also the problem with iron sights is present even in 3d ready games, where it just does not seem to render the iron sight in any kind of sensible way, so all I get is weird looking sights, only Crysis 2 seems to have got the iron sights correct for me so far, but it suffers from the depth rendering issue on normal crosshairs and sniper scopes.

#2
Posted 05/09/2011 11:33 PM   
Does nobody else have these crosshair and iron sight issues?
Does nobody else have these crosshair and iron sight issues?

#3
Posted 05/10/2011 03:04 PM   
Hi

First off the ghosting issue will hopefully be improved in our next major driver release posting to the web.

Second the crosshair is dependent on the application. Applications have to place the crosshair at the right depth, its not something we can force on for all games. Some do it right, others dont. We are working with game developers to help them get it right.
Hi



First off the ghosting issue will hopefully be improved in our next major driver release posting to the web.



Second the crosshair is dependent on the application. Applications have to place the crosshair at the right depth, its not something we can force on for all games. Some do it right, others dont. We are working with game developers to help them get it right.

#4
Posted 05/10/2011 08:25 PM   
Heya, typical ghosting won't show through in screenshots ,you have a take a photo through the lens of the glasses.

Metro 2033 automatically changes the convergense (i think its convergence) depending on whether your zoomed in or not. There is a setting, which much be set in 2 .ini files that same way, that will prevent the game from automatically changing convergence. You can search the forum for more info, its there for sure.

EDIT: Actually it looks like you already found the setting yes? Looks different from my setup. I tried changing the setting i mentioned and had the same problem you did, ironsights wouldn't line up.

As far as crosshairs, can't help ya since i don't use them unless im in a major bind.
Heya, typical ghosting won't show through in screenshots ,you have a take a photo through the lens of the glasses.



Metro 2033 automatically changes the convergense (i think its convergence) depending on whether your zoomed in or not. There is a setting, which much be set in 2 .ini files that same way, that will prevent the game from automatically changing convergence. You can search the forum for more info, its there for sure.



EDIT: Actually it looks like you already found the setting yes? Looks different from my setup. I tried changing the setting i mentioned and had the same problem you did, ironsights wouldn't line up.



As far as crosshairs, can't help ya since i don't use them unless im in a major bind.

46" Samsung ES7500 3DTV (checkerboard, high FOV, highly recommend!) - Metro 2033 3D screens - Mass Effect 1 3D scenery - Metro LL filter realism mod - Flugan's Deus Ex:HR Depth changers - Nvidia online tech support - Nvidia Support number: 1-800-797-6530 - Marissa Alexander has received a new trial :)
.
.
Post here for support for 3D in BF4, BF devs will see it

#5
Posted 05/11/2011 03:33 AM   
I just finished Fallout: New Vegas about a month ago. The NVIDIA crosshairs do work nicely most of the time but, if you check your Pip Boy, they get stuck at the wrong depth. Chatting with people can do it, too, if I remember right. Luckily, this is trivial to fix. Hit ESC to bring the game menu up then hit ESC again to go back to the game. Your crosshair will be at the correct depth again!

I actually went to the trouble to map one of my extra mouse buttons to the NVIDIA crosshair toggle key combination so I could turn the crosshair on and off easily.

(Oh, and there's a mod to push the sky up higher.)
I just finished Fallout: New Vegas about a month ago. The NVIDIA crosshairs do work nicely most of the time but, if you check your Pip Boy, they get stuck at the wrong depth. Chatting with people can do it, too, if I remember right. Luckily, this is trivial to fix. Hit ESC to bring the game menu up then hit ESC again to go back to the game. Your crosshair will be at the correct depth again!



I actually went to the trouble to map one of my extra mouse buttons to the NVIDIA crosshair toggle key combination so I could turn the crosshair on and off easily.



(Oh, and there's a mod to push the sky up higher.)

#6
Posted 05/11/2011 03:58 AM   
Andrew, thanks for taking the time to reply, its good to hear that you are attempting to reduce ghosting in the next driver release. How long does it usually take between driver releases? Any idea on an ETA? It is seriously bad in Bad Company 2, and occasionally bad in other games for me. Full screen ghosting on the latest drivers. Also, I know someone else recently who purchased the same monitor as me, it suffered from top 20% ghosting really bad, and I remember reading that AMD processors have an issue where you need to disable the USB controller, so I did this, and although it never fixed it entire, I would say it made it at least 80% reduced compared to what it was before, so just to let you know I can confirm there is some kind of issue related to that. Sadly mine is Intel tho and doesn't seem to make a difference for me, I have USB 3.0 which is what I run it on usually, I tried putting into USB 2.0 slots and those were just exactly the same, and then I tried disabling my controllers, but it was apparently unable to cope with it, it just made the screen severely flickery, jittery and the glasses really struggled to sync to anything. It did work on the AMD Processor board tho.

Hmmm it could be the convergence that is the culprit in Metro 2033, where the ironsights don't line up. But the weirdest part is, a lot of the guns ironsights do, it seems to be gun specific. Like the basic revolver does, but the revolver with the extended barrel doesn't. The AK does line up, but the bum Gun (the forum censors the guns name lol) doesn't. My 3d crosshair doesn't ever seem to want to render at the correct depth when aiming at anything close either, so far only Just Cause 2 seems to render at the correct depth most of the time. And in SC2 it will randomly render at the wrong depth, then the right depth, usually spending most of its time on the wrong depth, for what seems like no reason. Battlefield Bad Company and Crysis also randomly will render at the wrong depth, but then it will randomly decide to fix it and render at the right depth again. One of the oddities I can think of to note aswell is that when the rendering is done of the guns iron sights, sometimes it will put the aim line so far to the sides, that in either eye half of it is covered up by other parts of the gun, it seems to be trying too hard or something.

Are all of these problems just game code issues or could there be some underlying problem with the way my drivers are choosing to render 3d cursors/crosshairs? I'm even pretty good at things like Crysis 2 Multiplayer with 3D on, but the random crosshair glitches cause me to lose my edge.
Andrew, thanks for taking the time to reply, its good to hear that you are attempting to reduce ghosting in the next driver release. How long does it usually take between driver releases? Any idea on an ETA? It is seriously bad in Bad Company 2, and occasionally bad in other games for me. Full screen ghosting on the latest drivers. Also, I know someone else recently who purchased the same monitor as me, it suffered from top 20% ghosting really bad, and I remember reading that AMD processors have an issue where you need to disable the USB controller, so I did this, and although it never fixed it entire, I would say it made it at least 80% reduced compared to what it was before, so just to let you know I can confirm there is some kind of issue related to that. Sadly mine is Intel tho and doesn't seem to make a difference for me, I have USB 3.0 which is what I run it on usually, I tried putting into USB 2.0 slots and those were just exactly the same, and then I tried disabling my controllers, but it was apparently unable to cope with it, it just made the screen severely flickery, jittery and the glasses really struggled to sync to anything. It did work on the AMD Processor board tho.



Hmmm it could be the convergence that is the culprit in Metro 2033, where the ironsights don't line up. But the weirdest part is, a lot of the guns ironsights do, it seems to be gun specific. Like the basic revolver does, but the revolver with the extended barrel doesn't. The AK does line up, but the bum Gun (the forum censors the guns name lol) doesn't. My 3d crosshair doesn't ever seem to want to render at the correct depth when aiming at anything close either, so far only Just Cause 2 seems to render at the correct depth most of the time. And in SC2 it will randomly render at the wrong depth, then the right depth, usually spending most of its time on the wrong depth, for what seems like no reason. Battlefield Bad Company and Crysis also randomly will render at the wrong depth, but then it will randomly decide to fix it and render at the right depth again. One of the oddities I can think of to note aswell is that when the rendering is done of the guns iron sights, sometimes it will put the aim line so far to the sides, that in either eye half of it is covered up by other parts of the gun, it seems to be trying too hard or something.



Are all of these problems just game code issues or could there be some underlying problem with the way my drivers are choosing to render 3d cursors/crosshairs? I'm even pretty good at things like Crysis 2 Multiplayer with 3D on, but the random crosshair glitches cause me to lose my edge.

#7
Posted 05/11/2011 09:17 PM   
[quote name='Eightball' date='11 May 2011 - 10:17 PM' timestamp='1305148653' post='1236112']
Andrew, thanks for taking the time to reply, its good to hear that you are attempting to reduce ghosting in the next driver release. How long does it usually take between driver releases? Any idea on an ETA? It is seriously bad in Bad Company 2, and occasionally bad in other games for me. Full screen ghosting on the latest drivers. Also, I know someone else recently who purchased the same monitor as me, it suffered from top 20% ghosting really bad, and I remember reading that AMD processors have an issue where you need to disable the USB controller, so I did this, and although it never fixed it entire, I would say it made it at least 80% reduced compared to what it was before, so just to let you know I can confirm there is some kind of issue related to that. Sadly mine is Intel tho and doesn't seem to make a difference for me, I have USB 3.0 which is what I run it on usually, I tried putting into USB 2.0 slots and those were just exactly the same, and then I tried disabling my controllers, but it was apparently unable to cope with it, it just made the screen severely flickery, jittery and the glasses really struggled to sync to anything. It did work on the AMD Processor board tho.

Hmmm it could be the convergence that is the culprit in Metro 2033, where the ironsights don't line up. But the weirdest part is, a lot of the guns ironsights do, it seems to be gun specific. Like the basic revolver does, but the revolver with the extended barrel doesn't. The AK does line up, but the bum Gun (the forum censors the guns name lol) doesn't. My 3d crosshair doesn't ever seem to want to render at the correct depth when aiming at anything close either, so far only Just Cause 2 seems to render at the correct depth most of the time. And in SC2 it will randomly render at the wrong depth, then the right depth, usually spending most of its time on the wrong depth, for what seems like no reason. Battlefield Bad Company and Crysis also randomly will render at the wrong depth, but then it will randomly decide to fix it and render at the right depth again. One of the oddities I can think of to note aswell is that when the rendering is done of the guns iron sights, sometimes it will put the aim line so far to the sides, that in either eye half of it is covered up by other parts of the gun, it seems to be trying too hard or something.

Are all of these problems just game code issues or could there be some underlying problem with the way my drivers are choosing to render 3d cursors/crosshairs? I'm even pretty good at things like Crysis 2 Multiplayer with 3D on, but the random crosshair glitches cause me to lose my edge.
[/quote]

I have the same monitor as you and the same problem with Intel, hopefully the next drivers fixes that:
http://forums.nvidia.com/index.php?showtopic=198487&st=20
[quote name='Eightball' date='11 May 2011 - 10:17 PM' timestamp='1305148653' post='1236112']

Andrew, thanks for taking the time to reply, its good to hear that you are attempting to reduce ghosting in the next driver release. How long does it usually take between driver releases? Any idea on an ETA? It is seriously bad in Bad Company 2, and occasionally bad in other games for me. Full screen ghosting on the latest drivers. Also, I know someone else recently who purchased the same monitor as me, it suffered from top 20% ghosting really bad, and I remember reading that AMD processors have an issue where you need to disable the USB controller, so I did this, and although it never fixed it entire, I would say it made it at least 80% reduced compared to what it was before, so just to let you know I can confirm there is some kind of issue related to that. Sadly mine is Intel tho and doesn't seem to make a difference for me, I have USB 3.0 which is what I run it on usually, I tried putting into USB 2.0 slots and those were just exactly the same, and then I tried disabling my controllers, but it was apparently unable to cope with it, it just made the screen severely flickery, jittery and the glasses really struggled to sync to anything. It did work on the AMD Processor board tho.



Hmmm it could be the convergence that is the culprit in Metro 2033, where the ironsights don't line up. But the weirdest part is, a lot of the guns ironsights do, it seems to be gun specific. Like the basic revolver does, but the revolver with the extended barrel doesn't. The AK does line up, but the bum Gun (the forum censors the guns name lol) doesn't. My 3d crosshair doesn't ever seem to want to render at the correct depth when aiming at anything close either, so far only Just Cause 2 seems to render at the correct depth most of the time. And in SC2 it will randomly render at the wrong depth, then the right depth, usually spending most of its time on the wrong depth, for what seems like no reason. Battlefield Bad Company and Crysis also randomly will render at the wrong depth, but then it will randomly decide to fix it and render at the right depth again. One of the oddities I can think of to note aswell is that when the rendering is done of the guns iron sights, sometimes it will put the aim line so far to the sides, that in either eye half of it is covered up by other parts of the gun, it seems to be trying too hard or something.



Are all of these problems just game code issues or could there be some underlying problem with the way my drivers are choosing to render 3d cursors/crosshairs? I'm even pretty good at things like Crysis 2 Multiplayer with 3D on, but the random crosshair glitches cause me to lose my edge.





I have the same monitor as you and the same problem with Intel, hopefully the next drivers fixes that:

http://forums.nvidia.com/index.php?showtopic=198487&st=20

#8
Posted 05/12/2011 06:44 AM   
[quote name='liquid-ICE' date='12 May 2011 - 07:44 AM' timestamp='1305182647' post='1236224']
I have the same monitor as you and the same problem with Intel, hopefully the next drivers fixes that:
http://forums.nvidia.com/index.php?showtopic=198487&st=20
[/quote]


Are you sure that is the same problem? That other thread sounds like the double vision is the entire screen, mine just seems related to the crosshair / cursor. I do get bad ghosting now and then but I never have trouble focusing on the 'landscape' and such, just the crosshairs/iron sights/cursors. It even does it with the Nvidia 3d Crosshair when enabled. The only game so far that doesn't seem to do it is Just Cause 2, which seems able to render the crosshair at the correct depth when aiming at close objects. Metro 2033, Crysis 2, Battlefield Bad Company 2, Fallout 3 NV and Starcraft 2 (pretty much all the games I have tried that work well with 3D) all have the issue and 2 of those are rated as "3D Ready". I'm hoping the next driver helps fix the ghosting but I haven't really seen any mention of problems similar to mine for aiming.

I really love 3D, it makes games much more immersive, but i'm a little dissapointed that it cost so much money and is having such poor results in general. It's a new tech I really can see taking off, but its problems like this that put most people off wanting to commit so much money to it.
[quote name='liquid-ICE' date='12 May 2011 - 07:44 AM' timestamp='1305182647' post='1236224']

I have the same monitor as you and the same problem with Intel, hopefully the next drivers fixes that:

http://forums.nvidia.com/index.php?showtopic=198487&st=20







Are you sure that is the same problem? That other thread sounds like the double vision is the entire screen, mine just seems related to the crosshair / cursor. I do get bad ghosting now and then but I never have trouble focusing on the 'landscape' and such, just the crosshairs/iron sights/cursors. It even does it with the Nvidia 3d Crosshair when enabled. The only game so far that doesn't seem to do it is Just Cause 2, which seems able to render the crosshair at the correct depth when aiming at close objects. Metro 2033, Crysis 2, Battlefield Bad Company 2, Fallout 3 NV and Starcraft 2 (pretty much all the games I have tried that work well with 3D) all have the issue and 2 of those are rated as "3D Ready". I'm hoping the next driver helps fix the ghosting but I haven't really seen any mention of problems similar to mine for aiming.



I really love 3D, it makes games much more immersive, but i'm a little dissapointed that it cost so much money and is having such poor results in general. It's a new tech I really can see taking off, but its problems like this that put most people off wanting to commit so much money to it.

#9
Posted 05/12/2011 01:06 PM   
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