nVidia, did you kill 3D Vision?
  1 / 12    
I bought the 3D Vision (and my nVidia card over the competition) for 3D gaming. The best 3D gaming mode available right now is 1080x1920x60hz checkerboard. It seems as if checkerboard is not supported for DLP sets under 3D Play. It also seems that the only releases now are for 3D Play with nothing new coming out for 3D Vision. So is 3D Play replacing 3D Vision?
If not will 3D Vision still be developed?
If not is 3D Vision "embedded" in 3D Play somewhere and I can somehow switch over, or enable it?
If not then can I just install the last release of 3D Vision and just keep updating the basic graphic card drivers?
If so what is the latest 3D Vision CD release number?
Else=fail.
I bought the 3D Vision (and my nVidia card over the competition) for 3D gaming. The best 3D gaming mode available right now is 1080x1920x60hz checkerboard. It seems as if checkerboard is not supported for DLP sets under 3D Play. It also seems that the only releases now are for 3D Play with nothing new coming out for 3D Vision. So is 3D Play replacing 3D Vision?

If not will 3D Vision still be developed?

If not is 3D Vision "embedded" in 3D Play somewhere and I can somehow switch over, or enable it?

If not then can I just install the last release of 3D Vision and just keep updating the basic graphic card drivers?

If so what is the latest 3D Vision CD release number?

Else=fail.

#1
Posted 01/15/2011 04:17 PM   
3DTV Play *IS* 3D Vision. All it does is add support for HDMI 1.4a. The actual driver is the same.
3DTV Play *IS* 3D Vision. All it does is add support for HDMI 1.4a. The actual driver is the same.
#2
Posted 01/15/2011 05:04 PM   
Bobeggy,
Cybereality is wrong, 3D Vision is NOT 3DTV Play.
to your list of questions:
no
yes
yes/no
no
n/a

I was so hoping I would see a post like this, thanks for raising this crucial issue. Everything in my post is based on many hours of game play on both non-checkerboard and checkerboard displays, (e.g. Sony, Samsung, Mits), 3D Vision and 3DTV Play.
The short answer is that Nvidia went out of their way to boobey trap all post 258.xx drivers, here's the deal: 3D Vision and 3DTV Play have completely different stereo drivers. Starting with geforce release 260.xx / CD1.37, nvidia combined the two different drivers into one release package, e.g. cd1.37,1.38.1.41,1.42,1.44. Up through geforce 258.69 and CD1.33, there was only 3D Vision which worked perfectly with all Samsung and Mitsubishi 3D Ready HDTVs, plasma, LEDs, and DLP. 2010 and 2009 models, HDMI 1.3 and HDMI 1.4. So if you have any of these HDTVs, you can play games in 1920x1080 checkboard 1920x1080 native resolution. Make no mistake, playing any game in 1280x720 on a 1920x1080 screen is super ugly. OTOH, 1920x1080 resolution checkerboard looks wonderful, virtually as good as 'real' 1920x1080. I stress that the reason for this is not because of the higher resolution, but because of native vs non native, only native looks good. Even though it's checkerboard, 1920x1080 looks great. Now for the bad part...Starting with cd1.37, nvidia added 3DTV Play. At the same time, they added a line of code in the setup program that says "if HDMI1.3 display is detected, enable all quality modes of 3D (checkerboard, frame sequential, frame packing) users choice. if HDMI1.4 is detected, disable the high quality checkerboard and sequential modes and force user to game in super ugly 1280x720 non-native resolution."
This is all automatic, it's strictly done as a function of the HDMI type, users can't choose anything.
So Nvidia's customers are limited to old games, can't play the latest hot games, like CoD Blcak Ops, Medal of honor, Crysis 3, portal2, etc. No game that got 3D support after March 2010 cause only drivers 2.58 and before allow checkerboard.
No one is asking Nvidia to develope the software for checkerboard, the software already exists and it works perfectly. All I'm asking is that customers be given access to these superior quality modes that are already fully developed and working, and are in the drivers. I've been on the phone with support reps on this issue. They have gone to the product manager, the person with the ability to correct this travesty, and his reponse was "to hell with the customers, we're not going to change a thing." Nvidia's reputation for their "screw you, customers" is well founded.
Bobeggy,

Cybereality is wrong, 3D Vision is NOT 3DTV Play.

to your list of questions:

no

yes

yes/no

no

n/a



I was so hoping I would see a post like this, thanks for raising this crucial issue. Everything in my post is based on many hours of game play on both non-checkerboard and checkerboard displays, (e.g. Sony, Samsung, Mits), 3D Vision and 3DTV Play.

The short answer is that Nvidia went out of their way to boobey trap all post 258.xx drivers, here's the deal: 3D Vision and 3DTV Play have completely different stereo drivers. Starting with geforce release 260.xx / CD1.37, nvidia combined the two different drivers into one release package, e.g. cd1.37,1.38.1.41,1.42,1.44. Up through geforce 258.69 and CD1.33, there was only 3D Vision which worked perfectly with all Samsung and Mitsubishi 3D Ready HDTVs, plasma, LEDs, and DLP. 2010 and 2009 models, HDMI 1.3 and HDMI 1.4. So if you have any of these HDTVs, you can play games in 1920x1080 checkboard 1920x1080 native resolution. Make no mistake, playing any game in 1280x720 on a 1920x1080 screen is super ugly. OTOH, 1920x1080 resolution checkerboard looks wonderful, virtually as good as 'real' 1920x1080. I stress that the reason for this is not because of the higher resolution, but because of native vs non native, only native looks good. Even though it's checkerboard, 1920x1080 looks great. Now for the bad part...Starting with cd1.37, nvidia added 3DTV Play. At the same time, they added a line of code in the setup program that says "if HDMI1.3 display is detected, enable all quality modes of 3D (checkerboard, frame sequential, frame packing) users choice. if HDMI1.4 is detected, disable the high quality checkerboard and sequential modes and force user to game in super ugly 1280x720 non-native resolution."

This is all automatic, it's strictly done as a function of the HDMI type, users can't choose anything.

So Nvidia's customers are limited to old games, can't play the latest hot games, like CoD Blcak Ops, Medal of honor, Crysis 3, portal2, etc. No game that got 3D support after March 2010 cause only drivers 2.58 and before allow checkerboard.

No one is asking Nvidia to develope the software for checkerboard, the software already exists and it works perfectly. All I'm asking is that customers be given access to these superior quality modes that are already fully developed and working, and are in the drivers. I've been on the phone with support reps on this issue. They have gone to the product manager, the person with the ability to correct this travesty, and his reponse was "to hell with the customers, we're not going to change a thing." Nvidia's reputation for their "screw you, customers" is well founded.

#3
Posted 01/15/2011 09:37 PM   
@roller11: In what way am I wrong exactly? 3DTV Play support the same exact games. Its the same driver. Only difference is which outputs it supports (or rather, which outputs Nvidia allows). Clearly the core of the driver is the same.
@roller11: In what way am I wrong exactly? 3DTV Play support the same exact games. Its the same driver. Only difference is which outputs it supports (or rather, which outputs Nvidia allows). Clearly the core of the driver is the same.
#4
Posted 01/16/2011 12:25 AM   
[quote name='cybereality' date='15 January 2011 - 05:25 PM' timestamp='1295137536' post='1177566']
@roller11: In what way am I wrong exactly? 3DTV Play support the same exact games. Its the same driver. Only difference is which outputs it supports (or rather, which outputs Nvidia allows). Clearly the core of the driver is the same.
[/quote]If your statement was true, then they would be interchangeable, and they are far from that. The biggest difference, the one that really matters, is the difference you pointed out: 3D Vision allows the user to choose whatever resolution he wants of the resolutions that are available. 3DTV Play denys the user his right of choice by forcing the ugly 1280x720 res even though the vastly superior 1920x1080 checkerboard mode is available and is embedded in the release package.
3D Vision= full quality 1920x1080 res on a full sized display
3DTV Play =bad quality 1280x720 non-native res on a full sized display
They could not be more different.
[quote] All it [3DTV Play] does is add support for HDMI 1.4a.[/quote]This is utterly wrong. 3DTV Play did not add support for HDMI1.4a. 3D Vision works perfectly with HDMI1.4a displays, always has, in every driver release.
[quote name='cybereality' date='15 January 2011 - 05:25 PM' timestamp='1295137536' post='1177566']

@roller11: In what way am I wrong exactly? 3DTV Play support the same exact games. Its the same driver. Only difference is which outputs it supports (or rather, which outputs Nvidia allows). Clearly the core of the driver is the same.

If your statement was true, then they would be interchangeable, and they are far from that. The biggest difference, the one that really matters, is the difference you pointed out: 3D Vision allows the user to choose whatever resolution he wants of the resolutions that are available. 3DTV Play denys the user his right of choice by forcing the ugly 1280x720 res even though the vastly superior 1920x1080 checkerboard mode is available and is embedded in the release package.

3D Vision= full quality 1920x1080 res on a full sized display

3DTV Play =bad quality 1280x720 non-native res on a full sized display

They could not be more different.

All it [3DTV Play] does is add support for HDMI 1.4a.
This is utterly wrong. 3DTV Play did not add support for HDMI1.4a. 3D Vision works perfectly with HDMI1.4a displays, always has, in every driver release.

#5
Posted 01/16/2011 04:53 PM   
The limiting factor is the hdmi1.4 chipsets. The original standard is set higher but common chipsets only supports 720@120Hz. So Cybereality is right in any way. The core functions and drivers are exactly the same but with an extended outputset. Check [url=http://www.mtbs3d.com/phpBB/viewtopic.php?f=111&t=12343] this thread[/url] for info about 1.4 and it's limitations where i learnt a few stuffs as well.... /blink.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':blink:' />
The limiting factor is the hdmi1.4 chipsets. The original standard is set higher but common chipsets only supports 720@120Hz. So Cybereality is right in any way. The core functions and drivers are exactly the same but with an extended outputset. Check this thread for info about 1.4 and it's limitations where i learnt a few stuffs as well.... /blink.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':blink:' />

Image

Mb: Asus P5W DH Deluxe

Cpu: C2D E6600

Gb: Nvidia 7900GT + 8800GTX

3D:100" passive projector polarized setup + 22" IZ3D

Stereodrivers: Iz3d & Tridef ignition and nvidia old school.

#6
Posted 01/16/2011 07:30 PM   
[quote name='Likay' date='16 January 2011 - 12:30 PM' timestamp='1295206216' post='1177932']
The limiting factor is the hdmi1.4 chipsets.... common chipsets only supports 720@120Hz.[/quote]You're mixed up. You're addressing an issue that has nothing to do with this thread, a common mistake. HDMI1.4 supports many res other than 1280x720/120Hz, including 1920x1080/120Hz checkerboard. We all understand that the deficiency of HDMI1.4 results in the inability to do 1920x1080/120Hz frame packing, but HDMI1.4 works perfectly for 1920x1080/120Hz checkerboard. This is due to HDMI being a single link input, whereas 1920x1080/120Hz frame packing requires dual link such as DVI Dual link, Display port 1.2, HDMI type "B". Problem is, HDTV vendors will never go to a dual link input, so we will never have full quality 3D gaming (i.e. full resolution, full framerate). Not now, not ever.
This thread is about Nvidia denying users the next best thing, 1920x1080 checkerboard. They do this by distinquishing between HDMI1.3 and HDMI1.4, which amounts to the difference between 2009 and 2010 model HDTVs. So not only do we not get 1920x1080 framepacking (not Nvidia fault), we don't even get 1920x1080 checkerboard (most definitely Nvidia's fault).
Since the best we can ever hope for is 1920x1080 checkerboard, it's a big deal that Nvidia is denying us this mode even though it is fully implemented in the drivers.
[quote name='Likay' date='16 January 2011 - 12:30 PM' timestamp='1295206216' post='1177932']

The limiting factor is the hdmi1.4 chipsets.... common chipsets only supports 720@120Hz.You're mixed up. You're addressing an issue that has nothing to do with this thread, a common mistake. HDMI1.4 supports many res other than 1280x720/120Hz, including 1920x1080/120Hz checkerboard. We all understand that the deficiency of HDMI1.4 results in the inability to do 1920x1080/120Hz frame packing, but HDMI1.4 works perfectly for 1920x1080/120Hz checkerboard. This is due to HDMI being a single link input, whereas 1920x1080/120Hz frame packing requires dual link such as DVI Dual link, Display port 1.2, HDMI type "B". Problem is, HDTV vendors will never go to a dual link input, so we will never have full quality 3D gaming (i.e. full resolution, full framerate). Not now, not ever.

This thread is about Nvidia denying users the next best thing, 1920x1080 checkerboard. They do this by distinquishing between HDMI1.3 and HDMI1.4, which amounts to the difference between 2009 and 2010 model HDTVs. So not only do we not get 1920x1080 framepacking (not Nvidia fault), we don't even get 1920x1080 checkerboard (most definitely Nvidia's fault).

Since the best we can ever hope for is 1920x1080 checkerboard, it's a big deal that Nvidia is denying us this mode even though it is fully implemented in the drivers.

#7
Posted 01/16/2011 08:44 PM   
[quote name='roller11' date='17 January 2011 - 05:44 AM' timestamp='1295210668' post='1177985']
You're mixed up. You're addressing an issue that has nothing to do with this thread, a common mistake. HDMI1.4 supports many res other than 1280x720/120Hz, including 1920x1080/120Hz checkerboard. We all understand that the deficiency of HDMI1.4 results in the inability to do 1920x1080/120Hz frame packing, but HDMI1.4 works perfectly for 1920x1080/120Hz checkerboard. This is due to HDMI being a single link input, whereas 1920x1080/120Hz frame packing requires dual link such as DVI Dual link, Display port 1.2, HDMI type "B". Problem is, HDTV vendors will never go to a dual link input, so we will never have full quality 3D gaming (i.e. full resolution, full framerate). Not now, not ever.
This thread is about Nvidia denying users the next best thing, 1920x1080 checkerboard. They do this by distinquishing between HDMI1.3 and HDMI1.4, which amounts to the difference between 2009 and 2010 model HDTVs. So not only do we not get 1920x1080 framepacking (not Nvidia fault), we don't even get 1920x1080 checkerboard (most definitely Nvidia's fault).
Since the best we can ever hope for is 1920x1080 checkerboard, it's a big deal that Nvidia is denying us this mode even though it is fully implemented in the drivers.
[/quote]


i understand what u want

i agree with ur opinion fully

i ask to nvidia

why nvidia stop supporting native checkerboard mode after driver 258.96?

my 3dtv was fine with checkerboard mode before 263.09

but i can not use it anymore after 258.96 driver

and they get rid of prame packing mode @30hz

until 263.09 there r many way to playing game at 1920*1080

but after out of 3dtv play

the only way is [email="1920*1080@24hz"]1920*1080@24hz[/email] or 1280*720P

but 1280*720 is not good for full HD TV screen

then what i should choose??????

1920*1280*24hz ,this is all

so in these day i am playing all game just 24hz

anyway i don,t understand untill now why nvidia's make drivers changing so stupid
[quote name='roller11' date='17 January 2011 - 05:44 AM' timestamp='1295210668' post='1177985']

You're mixed up. You're addressing an issue that has nothing to do with this thread, a common mistake. HDMI1.4 supports many res other than 1280x720/120Hz, including 1920x1080/120Hz checkerboard. We all understand that the deficiency of HDMI1.4 results in the inability to do 1920x1080/120Hz frame packing, but HDMI1.4 works perfectly for 1920x1080/120Hz checkerboard. This is due to HDMI being a single link input, whereas 1920x1080/120Hz frame packing requires dual link such as DVI Dual link, Display port 1.2, HDMI type "B". Problem is, HDTV vendors will never go to a dual link input, so we will never have full quality 3D gaming (i.e. full resolution, full framerate). Not now, not ever.

This thread is about Nvidia denying users the next best thing, 1920x1080 checkerboard. They do this by distinquishing between HDMI1.3 and HDMI1.4, which amounts to the difference between 2009 and 2010 model HDTVs. So not only do we not get 1920x1080 framepacking (not Nvidia fault), we don't even get 1920x1080 checkerboard (most definitely Nvidia's fault).

Since the best we can ever hope for is 1920x1080 checkerboard, it's a big deal that Nvidia is denying us this mode even though it is fully implemented in the drivers.







i understand what u want



i agree with ur opinion fully



i ask to nvidia



why nvidia stop supporting native checkerboard mode after driver 258.96?



my 3dtv was fine with checkerboard mode before 263.09



but i can not use it anymore after 258.96 driver



and they get rid of prame packing mode @30hz



until 263.09 there r many way to playing game at 1920*1080



but after out of 3dtv play



the only way is [email="1920*1080@24hz"]1920*1080@24hz[/email] or 1280*720P



but 1280*720 is not good for full HD TV screen



then what i should choose??????



1920*1280*24hz ,this is all



so in these day i am playing all game just 24hz



anyway i don,t understand untill now why nvidia's make drivers changing so stupid

#8
Posted 01/16/2011 09:46 PM   
Ok. Only one explanation left then. Nvidia hasn't gottent their fee's for these tv-sets and therefore stopped supporting them. A brilliant way to force customers bying newer setups, wether or not they're better or not... It has happened before...
Ok. Only one explanation left then. Nvidia hasn't gottent their fee's for these tv-sets and therefore stopped supporting them. A brilliant way to force customers bying newer setups, wether or not they're better or not... It has happened before...

Image

Mb: Asus P5W DH Deluxe

Cpu: C2D E6600

Gb: Nvidia 7900GT + 8800GTX

3D:100" passive projector polarized setup + 22" IZ3D

Stereodrivers: Iz3d & Tridef ignition and nvidia old school.

#9
Posted 01/16/2011 09:52 PM   
1920x1080 @ 24hz is completely unacceptable for gaming. Nvidia knows this.
They're forcing people to have to install older drivers by not including previously available functionality.
1920x1080 @ 24hz is completely unacceptable for gaming. Nvidia knows this.

They're forcing people to have to install older drivers by not including previously available functionality.

#10
Posted 01/16/2011 10:04 PM   
This is nothing new. The old Nvidia XP driver used to support just about every 3D display available, from anaglyph, to generic shutter glasses, to HMDs, dual passive projection, planar mirror rigs, interlaced, iz3D, and yes, even checkerboard. Back then we could freely switch between whatever mode or resolution/refresh we wanted with no restrictions whatsoever. This was all dropped with the release of the 8800. Welcome to 2006, pal.
This is nothing new. The old Nvidia XP driver used to support just about every 3D display available, from anaglyph, to generic shutter glasses, to HMDs, dual passive projection, planar mirror rigs, interlaced, iz3D, and yes, even checkerboard. Back then we could freely switch between whatever mode or resolution/refresh we wanted with no restrictions whatsoever. This was all dropped with the release of the 8800. Welcome to 2006, pal.
#11
Posted 01/16/2011 11:15 PM   
Guys,
We're all in agreement, Nvidia is screwing us, but what are we going to do about it? We need to call Nvidia's customer support line and demand that we be given access to 1920x1080 checkerboard for our HDMI 1.4 displays. We paid good money for our 3D Vision hardware only to find that for all practical purposes, 3D game support ended in March 2010 with the last drivers that allowed us to access full quality display modes. Ugly 1280x720 is *NOT* Okay when 1920x1080 is right there in the drivers, but grayed out. Also, we need to keep raising this issue in this and other forums, customer support always tells me "nobody is complaining about this, so we won't fix it".
That number is 408 486 2300 pacific time zone. Be sure you understand the issue (only HDMI1.3 HDTVs can access 1920x1080 checkerboard) and know that all driver releases through CD1.44 work perfectly with HDMI 1.4 HDTVs in 1920x1080 checkerboard.
Guys,

We're all in agreement, Nvidia is screwing us, but what are we going to do about it? We need to call Nvidia's customer support line and demand that we be given access to 1920x1080 checkerboard for our HDMI 1.4 displays. We paid good money for our 3D Vision hardware only to find that for all practical purposes, 3D game support ended in March 2010 with the last drivers that allowed us to access full quality display modes. Ugly 1280x720 is *NOT* Okay when 1920x1080 is right there in the drivers, but grayed out. Also, we need to keep raising this issue in this and other forums, customer support always tells me "nobody is complaining about this, so we won't fix it".

That number is 408 486 2300 pacific time zone. Be sure you understand the issue (only HDMI1.3 HDTVs can access 1920x1080 checkerboard) and know that all driver releases through CD1.44 work perfectly with HDMI 1.4 HDTVs in 1920x1080 checkerboard.

#12
Posted 01/16/2011 11:38 PM   
I agree that Nvidia should fix this but, then again, they shouldn't have broken it in the first place. In fact, they go out of their way to break things and basically screw the customer over. The point is that they lock you into their ecosystem, using their videos cards, their glasses. Then they can monopolize the market and charge vendors serious $$$ to "certify" their products which already work 100%. Its almost on the verge of anti-trust/anti-competitive practice, but there are just enough alternatives to probably make what Nvidia's doing legal. So yes, it sucks. You could complain to Nvidia but I doubt it will do much. Your other option is to make it work yourself. You could get something like the Gefen HDMI Detective and spoof the EDID to make the Nvidia driver think you have an older TV. But really, why should we have to resort to stuff like that?
I agree that Nvidia should fix this but, then again, they shouldn't have broken it in the first place. In fact, they go out of their way to break things and basically screw the customer over. The point is that they lock you into their ecosystem, using their videos cards, their glasses. Then they can monopolize the market and charge vendors serious $$$ to "certify" their products which already work 100%. Its almost on the verge of anti-trust/anti-competitive practice, but there are just enough alternatives to probably make what Nvidia's doing legal. So yes, it sucks. You could complain to Nvidia but I doubt it will do much. Your other option is to make it work yourself. You could get something like the Gefen HDMI Detective and spoof the EDID to make the Nvidia driver think you have an older TV. But really, why should we have to resort to stuff like that?
#13
Posted 01/17/2011 03:53 PM   
[quote name='roller11' date='15 January 2011 - 05:37 PM' timestamp='1295127472' post='1177500']
Bobeggy,
Cybereality is wrong, 3D Vision is NOT 3DTV Play.
to your list of questions:
no
yes
yes/no
no
n/a

I was so hoping I would see a post like this, thanks for raising this crucial issue. Everything in my post is based on many hours of game play on both non-checkerboard and checkerboard displays, (e.g. Sony, Samsung, Mits), 3D Vision and 3DTV Play.
The short answer is that Nvidia went out of their way to boobey trap all post 258.xx drivers, here's the deal: 3D Vision and 3DTV Play have completely different stereo drivers. Starting with geforce release 260.xx / CD1.37, nvidia combined the two different drivers into one release package, e.g. cd1.37,1.38.1.41,1.42,1.44. Up through geforce 258.69 and CD1.33, there was only 3D Vision which worked perfectly with all Samsung and Mitsubishi 3D Ready HDTVs, plasma, LEDs, and DLP. 2010 and 2009 models, HDMI 1.3 and HDMI 1.4. So if you have any of these HDTVs, you can play games in 1920x1080 checkboard 1920x1080 native resolution. Make no mistake, playing any game in 1280x720 on a 1920x1080 screen is super ugly. OTOH, 1920x1080 resolution checkerboard looks wonderful, virtually as good as 'real' 1920x1080. I stress that the reason for this is not because of the higher resolution, but because of native vs non native, only native looks good. Even though it's checkerboard, 1920x1080 looks great. Now for the bad part...Starting with cd1.37, nvidia added 3DTV Play. At the same time, they added a line of code in the setup program that says "if HDMI1.3 display is detected, enable all quality modes of 3D (checkerboard, frame sequential, frame packing) users choice. if HDMI1.4 is detected, disable the high quality checkerboard and sequential modes and force user to game in super ugly 1280x720 non-native resolution."
This is all automatic, it's strictly done as a function of the HDMI type, users can't choose anything.
So Nvidia's customers are limited to old games, can't play the latest hot games, like CoD Blcak Ops, Medal of honor, Crysis 3, portal2, etc. No game that got 3D support after March 2010 cause only drivers 2.58 and before allow checkerboard.
No one is asking Nvidia to develope the software for checkerboard, the software already exists and it works perfectly. All I'm asking is that customers be given access to these superior quality modes that are already fully developed and working, and are in the drivers. I've been on the phone with support reps on this issue. They have gone to the product manager, the person with the ability to correct this travesty, and his reponse was "to hell with the customers, we're not going to change a thing." Nvidia's reputation for their "screw you, customers" is well founded.
[/quote]

Very interesting and informative. Thank you! Kind of makes me angry that 3d gaming is going backwards in quality. I'm very interested in purchasing one of the new 2011 92 inch Mits DLP sets later this year BUT, I'm now worried that I won't be able to use the 1920x1080/60hz checkerboard setting because I'm sure all of the inputs on that new set will be HDMI 1.4. I know 720p would suck on such a large screen!!

That said, has anyone tried "tricking" the newer 1.4 DLP sets into thinking it was HDMI 1.3? What if you used a 1.3 switcher to connect your new 1.4 DLP to 3D vision. Would it make 3D Play believe it was a 1.3 HDTV and "unlock" the checkerboard setting?

Just curious.
[quote name='roller11' date='15 January 2011 - 05:37 PM' timestamp='1295127472' post='1177500']

Bobeggy,

Cybereality is wrong, 3D Vision is NOT 3DTV Play.

to your list of questions:

no

yes

yes/no

no

n/a



I was so hoping I would see a post like this, thanks for raising this crucial issue. Everything in my post is based on many hours of game play on both non-checkerboard and checkerboard displays, (e.g. Sony, Samsung, Mits), 3D Vision and 3DTV Play.

The short answer is that Nvidia went out of their way to boobey trap all post 258.xx drivers, here's the deal: 3D Vision and 3DTV Play have completely different stereo drivers. Starting with geforce release 260.xx / CD1.37, nvidia combined the two different drivers into one release package, e.g. cd1.37,1.38.1.41,1.42,1.44. Up through geforce 258.69 and CD1.33, there was only 3D Vision which worked perfectly with all Samsung and Mitsubishi 3D Ready HDTVs, plasma, LEDs, and DLP. 2010 and 2009 models, HDMI 1.3 and HDMI 1.4. So if you have any of these HDTVs, you can play games in 1920x1080 checkboard 1920x1080 native resolution. Make no mistake, playing any game in 1280x720 on a 1920x1080 screen is super ugly. OTOH, 1920x1080 resolution checkerboard looks wonderful, virtually as good as 'real' 1920x1080. I stress that the reason for this is not because of the higher resolution, but because of native vs non native, only native looks good. Even though it's checkerboard, 1920x1080 looks great. Now for the bad part...Starting with cd1.37, nvidia added 3DTV Play. At the same time, they added a line of code in the setup program that says "if HDMI1.3 display is detected, enable all quality modes of 3D (checkerboard, frame sequential, frame packing) users choice. if HDMI1.4 is detected, disable the high quality checkerboard and sequential modes and force user to game in super ugly 1280x720 non-native resolution."

This is all automatic, it's strictly done as a function of the HDMI type, users can't choose anything.

So Nvidia's customers are limited to old games, can't play the latest hot games, like CoD Blcak Ops, Medal of honor, Crysis 3, portal2, etc. No game that got 3D support after March 2010 cause only drivers 2.58 and before allow checkerboard.

No one is asking Nvidia to develope the software for checkerboard, the software already exists and it works perfectly. All I'm asking is that customers be given access to these superior quality modes that are already fully developed and working, and are in the drivers. I've been on the phone with support reps on this issue. They have gone to the product manager, the person with the ability to correct this travesty, and his reponse was "to hell with the customers, we're not going to change a thing." Nvidia's reputation for their "screw you, customers" is well founded.





Very interesting and informative. Thank you! Kind of makes me angry that 3d gaming is going backwards in quality. I'm very interested in purchasing one of the new 2011 92 inch Mits DLP sets later this year BUT, I'm now worried that I won't be able to use the 1920x1080/60hz checkerboard setting because I'm sure all of the inputs on that new set will be HDMI 1.4. I know 720p would suck on such a large screen!!



That said, has anyone tried "tricking" the newer 1.4 DLP sets into thinking it was HDMI 1.3? What if you used a 1.3 switcher to connect your new 1.4 DLP to 3D vision. Would it make 3D Play believe it was a 1.3 HDTV and "unlock" the checkerboard setting?



Just curious.

#14
Posted 01/17/2011 04:02 PM   
[quote name='SpeedKilz' date='17 January 2011 - 09:02 AM' timestamp='1295280173' post='1178431']
Very interesting and informative. Thank you! Kind of makes me angry that 3d gaming is going backwards in quality. I'm very interested in purchasing one of the new 2011 92 inch Mits DLP sets later this year BUT, I'm now worried that I won't be able to use the 1920x1080/60hz checkerboard setting because I'm sure all of the inputs on that new set will be HDMI 1.4. I know 720p would suck on such a large screen!![/quote]I only wish that I had the space to do a 92" screen. Everytime I go to a bigger screen, the game becomes more immersive, more fun. I can't image the visual impact of playing on a 92" screen!
You're right, 1280x720/60 would look horrible on that screen due to downscaling errors. And yes, the HDMI1.4 input would force you to setup under 3D Play so you couldn't do checkerboard. BTW, I used a 67" Mits DLP to game with 3D Vision/checkerboard this summer. That's when I found out the importantance of size to the 3D effect.

[quote]That said, has anyone tried "tricking" the newer 1.4 DLP sets into thinking it was HDMI 1.3? What if you used a 1.3 switcher to connect your new 1.4 DLP to 3D vision. Would it make 3D Play believe it was a 1.3 HDTV and "unlock" the checkerboard setting?[/quote]
Yes. I didn't want to sidetrack the discussion by bring up Gefen DVI Detective, but yes, Nobsi is using DD successfully with CD1.44. It's an inconvenient, messy, costly hardware hack, but it can be done. It works just like you say. First, you must program it using a HDMI1.3 TV set. Next, you insert it between your VGA card and your HDMI1.4 TV using two cables. The DD reports that you have a HDMI1.3 TV, so it sets up under 3D Vision and you get checkerboard.
[quote name='SpeedKilz' date='17 January 2011 - 09:02 AM' timestamp='1295280173' post='1178431']

Very interesting and informative. Thank you! Kind of makes me angry that 3d gaming is going backwards in quality. I'm very interested in purchasing one of the new 2011 92 inch Mits DLP sets later this year BUT, I'm now worried that I won't be able to use the 1920x1080/60hz checkerboard setting because I'm sure all of the inputs on that new set will be HDMI 1.4. I know 720p would suck on such a large screen!!I only wish that I had the space to do a 92" screen. Everytime I go to a bigger screen, the game becomes more immersive, more fun. I can't image the visual impact of playing on a 92" screen!

You're right, 1280x720/60 would look horrible on that screen due to downscaling errors. And yes, the HDMI1.4 input would force you to setup under 3D Play so you couldn't do checkerboard. BTW, I used a 67" Mits DLP to game with 3D Vision/checkerboard this summer. That's when I found out the importantance of size to the 3D effect.



That said, has anyone tried "tricking" the newer 1.4 DLP sets into thinking it was HDMI 1.3? What if you used a 1.3 switcher to connect your new 1.4 DLP to 3D vision. Would it make 3D Play believe it was a 1.3 HDTV and "unlock" the checkerboard setting?


Yes. I didn't want to sidetrack the discussion by bring up Gefen DVI Detective, but yes, Nobsi is using DD successfully with CD1.44. It's an inconvenient, messy, costly hardware hack, but it can be done. It works just like you say. First, you must program it using a HDMI1.3 TV set. Next, you insert it between your VGA card and your HDMI1.4 TV using two cables. The DD reports that you have a HDMI1.3 TV, so it sets up under 3D Vision and you get checkerboard.

#15
Posted 01/17/2011 05:26 PM   
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