Release 256+, Transparency Multisampling is not Multisampling on G80-G200 cards
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[url="http://forums.nvidia.com/index.php?showtopic=181089"]Since my last thread was closed without good reason, i will open a new one.[/url]

using Release 256+ drivers, Transparency Multisampling set from the NVCP is not multisampling on G80 - G200 graphics cards, it is using the old GF6/7 alpha test that does not benefit from the specified MSAA mode.

Enabling the real TrMSAA mode via Inspector (a third party application that should not be required) restores TrMSAA to the Release 195 quality but causes anomalies in some applications where it did not previously.

We are promised Transparency Multisampling in the GPU Datasheet, not an Alpha Test!
[url="http://www.nvidia.com/docs/IO/55506/GPU_Datasheet.pdf"]http://www.nvidia.com/docs/IO/55506/GPU_Datasheet.pdf[/url]
Since my last thread was closed without good reason, i will open a new one.



using Release 256+ drivers, Transparency Multisampling set from the NVCP is not multisampling on G80 - G200 graphics cards, it is using the old GF6/7 alpha test that does not benefit from the specified MSAA mode.



Enabling the real TrMSAA mode via Inspector (a third party application that should not be required) restores TrMSAA to the Release 195 quality but causes anomalies in some applications where it did not previously.



We are promised Transparency Multisampling in the GPU Datasheet, not an Alpha Test!

http://www.nvidia.com/docs/IO/55506/GPU_Datasheet.pdf



In Memory of Chris "ChrisRay" Arthington, 1982-2010

CPU:Intel i7 920 @ 3.8(D0), Mainboard:Asus Rampage II Gene, Memory:12GB Corsair Vengeance 1600
Video:EVGA Geforce GTX 680+ 4GB, Sound:Creative XFI Titanium Fatal1ty Pro, Monitor:BenQ G2400WD
HDD:500GB Spinpoint F3, 1TB WD Black, 2TB WD Red, 1TB WD Black
Case:NZXT Guardian 921RB, PSU:Corsair 620HX, OS:Windows 7 SP1

#1
Posted 10/26/2010 10:13 PM   
[url="http://forums.nvidia.com/index.php?showtopic=181089"]Since my last thread was closed without good reason, i will open a new one.[/url]

using Release 256+ drivers, Transparency Multisampling set from the NVCP is not multisampling on G80 - G200 graphics cards, it is using the old GF6/7 alpha test that does not benefit from the specified MSAA mode.

Enabling the real TrMSAA mode via Inspector (a third party application that should not be required) restores TrMSAA to the Release 195 quality but causes anomalies in some applications where it did not previously.

We are promised Transparency Multisampling in the GPU Datasheet, not an Alpha Test!
[url="http://www.nvidia.com/docs/IO/55506/GPU_Datasheet.pdf"]http://www.nvidia.com/docs/IO/55506/GPU_Datasheet.pdf[/url]
Since my last thread was closed without good reason, i will open a new one.



using Release 256+ drivers, Transparency Multisampling set from the NVCP is not multisampling on G80 - G200 graphics cards, it is using the old GF6/7 alpha test that does not benefit from the specified MSAA mode.



Enabling the real TrMSAA mode via Inspector (a third party application that should not be required) restores TrMSAA to the Release 195 quality but causes anomalies in some applications where it did not previously.



We are promised Transparency Multisampling in the GPU Datasheet, not an Alpha Test!

http://www.nvidia.com/docs/IO/55506/GPU_Datasheet.pdf



In Memory of Chris "ChrisRay" Arthington, 1982-2010

CPU:Intel i7 920 @ 3.8(D0), Mainboard:Asus Rampage II Gene, Memory:12GB Corsair Vengeance 1600
Video:EVGA Geforce GTX 680+ 4GB, Sound:Creative XFI Titanium Fatal1ty Pro, Monitor:BenQ G2400WD
HDD:500GB Spinpoint F3, 1TB WD Black, 2TB WD Red, 1TB WD Black
Case:NZXT Guardian 921RB, PSU:Corsair 620HX, OS:Windows 7 SP1

#2
Posted 10/26/2010 10:13 PM   
After reading your previous post on this, I checked it out on my GTX470s and can confirm (as I believe you said) that this is not the case on the 400s. The drivers do set the correct Multisampling option when I disable Supersampling.

My Girlfriend is using one of my old GTX280s in her rig now and I will try to have a look at it later if I can make the time.

I was going to suggest enabling it via Inspector and did wonder why you didn't say you'd tried that. I see you have and it didn't work very well.

Although this obviously doesn't affect me directly, as I no longer use any 200s for rendering, I am a bit baffled as to why nVidia should choose to do it. I have noticed other profile-related issues with the latest drivers and agree nvidia need to concentrate a bit harder.
After reading your previous post on this, I checked it out on my GTX470s and can confirm (as I believe you said) that this is not the case on the 400s. The drivers do set the correct Multisampling option when I disable Supersampling.



My Girlfriend is using one of my old GTX280s in her rig now and I will try to have a look at it later if I can make the time.



I was going to suggest enabling it via Inspector and did wonder why you didn't say you'd tried that. I see you have and it didn't work very well.



Although this obviously doesn't affect me directly, as I no longer use any 200s for rendering, I am a bit baffled as to why nVidia should choose to do it. I have noticed other profile-related issues with the latest drivers and agree nvidia need to concentrate a bit harder.

Core i5 4670K @ 4.3GHz with 4GHz uncore
Corsair H100 water cooler
8GB Patriot Viper DDR3 @ 2400MHz
Gigabyte Z87X-OC mobo
SLI eVGA GTX670 FTW (1227MHz boost 6800MHz VRAM)
Soundblaster Z with 5.1 speakers
112GB OCZ Vertex 3 SSD
240GB OCZ Vertex 4 SSD
Corsair Carbide 500R case (white)
Akasa PowerXtreme 1200W PSU
HP ZR2740W 2560 x 1440 27" IPS panel
Windows 7 Pro 64bit

#3
Posted 10/27/2010 07:39 AM   
After reading your previous post on this, I checked it out on my GTX470s and can confirm (as I believe you said) that this is not the case on the 400s. The drivers do set the correct Multisampling option when I disable Supersampling.

My Girlfriend is using one of my old GTX280s in her rig now and I will try to have a look at it later if I can make the time.

I was going to suggest enabling it via Inspector and did wonder why you didn't say you'd tried that. I see you have and it didn't work very well.

Although this obviously doesn't affect me directly, as I no longer use any 200s for rendering, I am a bit baffled as to why nVidia should choose to do it. I have noticed other profile-related issues with the latest drivers and agree nvidia need to concentrate a bit harder.
After reading your previous post on this, I checked it out on my GTX470s and can confirm (as I believe you said) that this is not the case on the 400s. The drivers do set the correct Multisampling option when I disable Supersampling.



My Girlfriend is using one of my old GTX280s in her rig now and I will try to have a look at it later if I can make the time.



I was going to suggest enabling it via Inspector and did wonder why you didn't say you'd tried that. I see you have and it didn't work very well.



Although this obviously doesn't affect me directly, as I no longer use any 200s for rendering, I am a bit baffled as to why nVidia should choose to do it. I have noticed other profile-related issues with the latest drivers and agree nvidia need to concentrate a bit harder.

Core i5 4670K @ 4.3GHz with 4GHz uncore
Corsair H100 water cooler
8GB Patriot Viper DDR3 @ 2400MHz
Gigabyte Z87X-OC mobo
SLI eVGA GTX670 FTW (1227MHz boost 6800MHz VRAM)
Soundblaster Z with 5.1 speakers
112GB OCZ Vertex 3 SSD
240GB OCZ Vertex 4 SSD
Corsair Carbide 500R case (white)
Akasa PowerXtreme 1200W PSU
HP ZR2740W 2560 x 1440 27" IPS panel
Windows 7 Pro 64bit

#4
Posted 10/27/2010 07:39 AM   
It seems to work properly for the most part (from inspector), the only regressions from R19x drivers is certain tree's in HL2 and CSS, and some games which use large clear bitmaps display as white.

FWIW, you don't really see the benefits of TrMSAA on Release 19x until you use 8xMSAA anyway, but even at 4x, the quality of TrMSAA on release 195 is alot better then the NVCP setting in Release 256+ under certain circumstances, and if you look hard enough.
It seems to work properly for the most part (from inspector), the only regressions from R19x drivers is certain tree's in HL2 and CSS, and some games which use large clear bitmaps display as white.



FWIW, you don't really see the benefits of TrMSAA on Release 19x until you use 8xMSAA anyway, but even at 4x, the quality of TrMSAA on release 195 is alot better then the NVCP setting in Release 256+ under certain circumstances, and if you look hard enough.



In Memory of Chris "ChrisRay" Arthington, 1982-2010

CPU:Intel i7 920 @ 3.8(D0), Mainboard:Asus Rampage II Gene, Memory:12GB Corsair Vengeance 1600
Video:EVGA Geforce GTX 680+ 4GB, Sound:Creative XFI Titanium Fatal1ty Pro, Monitor:BenQ G2400WD
HDD:500GB Spinpoint F3, 1TB WD Black, 2TB WD Red, 1TB WD Black
Case:NZXT Guardian 921RB, PSU:Corsair 620HX, OS:Windows 7 SP1

#5
Posted 10/27/2010 10:13 AM   
It seems to work properly for the most part (from inspector), the only regressions from R19x drivers is certain tree's in HL2 and CSS, and some games which use large clear bitmaps display as white.

FWIW, you don't really see the benefits of TrMSAA on Release 19x until you use 8xMSAA anyway, but even at 4x, the quality of TrMSAA on release 195 is alot better then the NVCP setting in Release 256+ under certain circumstances, and if you look hard enough.
It seems to work properly for the most part (from inspector), the only regressions from R19x drivers is certain tree's in HL2 and CSS, and some games which use large clear bitmaps display as white.



FWIW, you don't really see the benefits of TrMSAA on Release 19x until you use 8xMSAA anyway, but even at 4x, the quality of TrMSAA on release 195 is alot better then the NVCP setting in Release 256+ under certain circumstances, and if you look hard enough.



In Memory of Chris "ChrisRay" Arthington, 1982-2010

CPU:Intel i7 920 @ 3.8(D0), Mainboard:Asus Rampage II Gene, Memory:12GB Corsair Vengeance 1600
Video:EVGA Geforce GTX 680+ 4GB, Sound:Creative XFI Titanium Fatal1ty Pro, Monitor:BenQ G2400WD
HDD:500GB Spinpoint F3, 1TB WD Black, 2TB WD Red, 1TB WD Black
Case:NZXT Guardian 921RB, PSU:Corsair 620HX, OS:Windows 7 SP1

#6
Posted 10/27/2010 10:13 AM   
I see 8x as a minimum. With three GTX280s and now two GTX470s, I generally run at 16x if I can persuade the game to do it.
I see 8x as a minimum. With three GTX280s and now two GTX470s, I generally run at 16x if I can persuade the game to do it.

Core i5 4670K @ 4.3GHz with 4GHz uncore
Corsair H100 water cooler
8GB Patriot Viper DDR3 @ 2400MHz
Gigabyte Z87X-OC mobo
SLI eVGA GTX670 FTW (1227MHz boost 6800MHz VRAM)
Soundblaster Z with 5.1 speakers
112GB OCZ Vertex 3 SSD
240GB OCZ Vertex 4 SSD
Corsair Carbide 500R case (white)
Akasa PowerXtreme 1200W PSU
HP ZR2740W 2560 x 1440 27" IPS panel
Windows 7 Pro 64bit

#7
Posted 10/27/2010 10:25 AM   
I see 8x as a minimum. With three GTX280s and now two GTX470s, I generally run at 16x if I can persuade the game to do it.
I see 8x as a minimum. With three GTX280s and now two GTX470s, I generally run at 16x if I can persuade the game to do it.

Core i5 4670K @ 4.3GHz with 4GHz uncore
Corsair H100 water cooler
8GB Patriot Viper DDR3 @ 2400MHz
Gigabyte Z87X-OC mobo
SLI eVGA GTX670 FTW (1227MHz boost 6800MHz VRAM)
Soundblaster Z with 5.1 speakers
112GB OCZ Vertex 3 SSD
240GB OCZ Vertex 4 SSD
Corsair Carbide 500R case (white)
Akasa PowerXtreme 1200W PSU
HP ZR2740W 2560 x 1440 27" IPS panel
Windows 7 Pro 64bit

#8
Posted 10/27/2010 10:25 AM   
That image sample [url=http://forums.nvidia.com/index.php?showtopic=181089&view=findpost&p=1134893]here[/url] looks very much like what I've been noticing. Games look like they have Aliasing Filter x8 enabled instead of an Anti Aliasing filter.


I've noticed when I transitioned from 8800GT to 250GTS the image quality took a massive down turn and things that used to be smooth are now pixellated to all hell it in the majority of games I play. I was using 258.96 WHQL drivers at the time. Upgrading to 256 drivers introduces the same problem to the 8800GT card.


I presume that to back this up and to help the OP get his point across I need to take comparative screen shots with old/new drivers? I need Multisampling set to Multi or Super? (Presumably Multi as I am starting to recall Nvidia's claims about a image quality boost at no impact on performance a long long looong time ago)




EDIT: Disregard my post, I have not been able to recreate a situation that benefits from the work around proposed by Sora. What Sora says is correct though that the NVCP enables a Alpha Test mode for AntiAliasing Trasnparency Multisampling for Geforce 200 cards.
That image sample here looks very much like what I've been noticing. Games look like they have Aliasing Filter x8 enabled instead of an Anti Aliasing filter.





I've noticed when I transitioned from 8800GT to 250GTS the image quality took a massive down turn and things that used to be smooth are now pixellated to all hell it in the majority of games I play. I was using 258.96 WHQL drivers at the time. Upgrading to 256 drivers introduces the same problem to the 8800GT card.





I presume that to back this up and to help the OP get his point across I need to take comparative screen shots with old/new drivers? I need Multisampling set to Multi or Super? (Presumably Multi as I am starting to recall Nvidia's claims about a image quality boost at no impact on performance a long long looong time ago)









EDIT: Disregard my post, I have not been able to recreate a situation that benefits from the work around proposed by Sora. What Sora says is correct though that the NVCP enables a Alpha Test mode for AntiAliasing Trasnparency Multisampling for Geforce 200 cards.

Custom built PC | Intel Core i7 920 @ 2.66GHZ | ASUS P6T Motherboard | 6GB DDR3 1600 RAM | 2x 500GB SATA2 HDD's | Auzentech Forte S/C | Gainward Geforce GTX 560Ti "Phantom 2" 2048MB | Windows 7 Home Premium: Service Pack 1 - x64 | Thermaltake 750watt Toughpower Power Supply | Thermaltake Armor+ MX case.

#9
Posted 11/20/2010 05:54 PM   
That image sample [url=http://forums.nvidia.com/index.php?showtopic=181089&view=findpost&p=1134893]here[/url] looks very much like what I've been noticing. Games look like they have Aliasing Filter x8 enabled instead of an Anti Aliasing filter.


I've noticed when I transitioned from 8800GT to 250GTS the image quality took a massive down turn and things that used to be smooth are now pixellated to all hell it in the majority of games I play. I was using 258.96 WHQL drivers at the time. Upgrading to 256 drivers introduces the same problem to the 8800GT card.


I presume that to back this up and to help the OP get his point across I need to take comparative screen shots with old/new drivers? I need Multisampling set to Multi or Super? (Presumably Multi as I am starting to recall Nvidia's claims about a image quality boost at no impact on performance a long long looong time ago)




EDIT: Disregard my post, I have not been able to recreate a situation that benefits from the work around proposed by Sora. What Sora says is correct though that the NVCP enables a Alpha Test mode for AntiAliasing Trasnparency Multisampling for Geforce 200 cards.
That image sample here looks very much like what I've been noticing. Games look like they have Aliasing Filter x8 enabled instead of an Anti Aliasing filter.





I've noticed when I transitioned from 8800GT to 250GTS the image quality took a massive down turn and things that used to be smooth are now pixellated to all hell it in the majority of games I play. I was using 258.96 WHQL drivers at the time. Upgrading to 256 drivers introduces the same problem to the 8800GT card.





I presume that to back this up and to help the OP get his point across I need to take comparative screen shots with old/new drivers? I need Multisampling set to Multi or Super? (Presumably Multi as I am starting to recall Nvidia's claims about a image quality boost at no impact on performance a long long looong time ago)









EDIT: Disregard my post, I have not been able to recreate a situation that benefits from the work around proposed by Sora. What Sora says is correct though that the NVCP enables a Alpha Test mode for AntiAliasing Trasnparency Multisampling for Geforce 200 cards.

Custom built PC | Intel Core i7 920 @ 2.66GHZ | ASUS P6T Motherboard | 6GB DDR3 1600 RAM | 2x 500GB SATA2 HDD's | Auzentech Forte S/C | Gainward Geforce GTX 560Ti "Phantom 2" 2048MB | Windows 7 Home Premium: Service Pack 1 - x64 | Thermaltake 750watt Toughpower Power Supply | Thermaltake Armor+ MX case.

#10
Posted 11/20/2010 05:54 PM   
This has been confirmed as a bug and will be fixed in a future driver according to Nick Stam.
This has been confirmed as a bug and will be fixed in a future driver according to Nick Stam.



In Memory of Chris "ChrisRay" Arthington, 1982-2010

CPU:Intel i7 920 @ 3.8(D0), Mainboard:Asus Rampage II Gene, Memory:12GB Corsair Vengeance 1600
Video:EVGA Geforce GTX 680+ 4GB, Sound:Creative XFI Titanium Fatal1ty Pro, Monitor:BenQ G2400WD
HDD:500GB Spinpoint F3, 1TB WD Black, 2TB WD Red, 1TB WD Black
Case:NZXT Guardian 921RB, PSU:Corsair 620HX, OS:Windows 7 SP1

#11
Posted 11/30/2010 08:14 AM   
Yeah, I found it was like this on my Girlfriend's GTX260 on her Vista PC, but not with a GTX280 on my Win 7 machine. On this one, it's fine.
Yeah, I found it was like this on my Girlfriend's GTX260 on her Vista PC, but not with a GTX280 on my Win 7 machine. On this one, it's fine.

Core i5 4670K @ 4.3GHz with 4GHz uncore
Corsair H100 water cooler
8GB Patriot Viper DDR3 @ 2400MHz
Gigabyte Z87X-OC mobo
SLI eVGA GTX670 FTW (1227MHz boost 6800MHz VRAM)
Soundblaster Z with 5.1 speakers
112GB OCZ Vertex 3 SSD
240GB OCZ Vertex 4 SSD
Corsair Carbide 500R case (white)
Akasa PowerXtreme 1200W PSU
HP ZR2740W 2560 x 1440 27" IPS panel
Windows 7 Pro 64bit

#12
Posted 11/30/2010 10:44 AM   
hmm, is it a 260 216? that would make it a GT200b issue... but it was also occuring on the GTS250 according to Franpa, so yeah....
hmm, is it a 260 216? that would make it a GT200b issue... but it was also occuring on the GTS250 according to Franpa, so yeah....



In Memory of Chris "ChrisRay" Arthington, 1982-2010

CPU:Intel i7 920 @ 3.8(D0), Mainboard:Asus Rampage II Gene, Memory:12GB Corsair Vengeance 1600
Video:EVGA Geforce GTX 680+ 4GB, Sound:Creative XFI Titanium Fatal1ty Pro, Monitor:BenQ G2400WD
HDD:500GB Spinpoint F3, 1TB WD Black, 2TB WD Red, 1TB WD Black
Case:NZXT Guardian 921RB, PSU:Corsair 620HX, OS:Windows 7 SP1

#13
Posted 11/30/2010 11:29 AM   
Yes, a 216. XFX Black. But it's gone now and she is temporarily using a GTS250 until I can put the GTX280 back in. But I'm sure the 280 was the same as the 260 when it was in there before. The difference seems to be that I'm running Windows 7. I ought to see what it's doing with the GTS250, I guess. I didn't bother because I don't actually class the GTS250 as a 200 series card. It's really an 8000 in disguise. But Franpa is reporting problems with a 250, too.
Yes, a 216. XFX Black. But it's gone now and she is temporarily using a GTS250 until I can put the GTX280 back in. But I'm sure the 280 was the same as the 260 when it was in there before. The difference seems to be that I'm running Windows 7. I ought to see what it's doing with the GTS250, I guess. I didn't bother because I don't actually class the GTS250 as a 200 series card. It's really an 8000 in disguise. But Franpa is reporting problems with a 250, too.

Core i5 4670K @ 4.3GHz with 4GHz uncore
Corsair H100 water cooler
8GB Patriot Viper DDR3 @ 2400MHz
Gigabyte Z87X-OC mobo
SLI eVGA GTX670 FTW (1227MHz boost 6800MHz VRAM)
Soundblaster Z with 5.1 speakers
112GB OCZ Vertex 3 SSD
240GB OCZ Vertex 4 SSD
Corsair Carbide 500R case (white)
Akasa PowerXtreme 1200W PSU
HP ZR2740W 2560 x 1440 27" IPS panel
Windows 7 Pro 64bit

#14
Posted 11/30/2010 02:44 PM   
im using 7 as well though, so i can't see that being the difference :P
im using 7 as well though, so i can't see that being the difference :P



In Memory of Chris "ChrisRay" Arthington, 1982-2010

CPU:Intel i7 920 @ 3.8(D0), Mainboard:Asus Rampage II Gene, Memory:12GB Corsair Vengeance 1600
Video:EVGA Geforce GTX 680+ 4GB, Sound:Creative XFI Titanium Fatal1ty Pro, Monitor:BenQ G2400WD
HDD:500GB Spinpoint F3, 1TB WD Black, 2TB WD Red, 1TB WD Black
Case:NZXT Guardian 921RB, PSU:Corsair 620HX, OS:Windows 7 SP1

#15
Posted 12/01/2010 01:04 AM   
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