NFORCE4 SLI INTEL EDITION, X25-M SSD AND TRIM
I have an old Dell XPS 600 with an intel pent4 proc, nvidia nforce4 sli intel edition chipset, 1 gb ram, 2 -geforce gtx 7800's, and a couple of 80gb raptors in raid 0. The thing took about 5 minutes to boot and load programs. Got bored and wondered what would happen if i slapped 4gb ram, an intel x25-m 80 gb ssd as os drive and win7 on this relic. I put the raptors as data drives. The results were amazing to say the least. It was like going from a yugo to a vette. I loaded up intel ssd toolbox and it didn't reconize the drive as an ssd but a scsi disk device. What? I went to device manager:
under ide ata/atapi controllers - 1) ata channel 0
2) ata channel 1
3) standard dual channel pci ide controller

under storage - 1) nvidia nforce serial ata controller
2) nvidia nforce serial ata controller
Now i don't know if trim is working or not since it's seen as an scsi drive. I do know i can't use ssd toolbox and can't flash firmware. Any statement i make from here on, i've read on forums or have been told so they may be true or pure bull. It seems the nvidia storage controller is the problem. Alot of posts said i had to get the default microsoft driver to replace the nvidia storage driver. It's not an option when i tried to update or change drivers. Nvidia driver is only one shown. Article KB922976 on microsoft site states that when win7 installs a storage driver, it disables all other storage drivers to speed boot process.Tried everything i could to force it. Uninstalled storage device, rebooted, maybe it'll load default ms driver. Nope. Uninstalled storage device, renamed nvstor.sys driver and rebooted. It either will load default ms driver or bluescreen inaccessible_boot _device. Nope. Just repaired itself and back to normal. (actually pretty impressive for a microsoft os) Starting to get irratated now.I read on a forum where guys had nforce series 6 and 7 boards with the same problem. Now this is weird. They had the microsoft driver (drive seen as scsi) updated nforce driver (still scsi) and then replaced it with microsoft driver and it worked (seen as ssd) Do i have to update driver (even if nvidia site scan said i had current driver) and how do i do it? Not being concerned with whacking system, i download every driver package fron nvidia site , legacy, series 6, series 7. Started installs. Each one showed a few drivers i could install, but no storage or sata controllers so i backed out. I'm stumped though in my defense, i have not read one post out of a thousand where a person with a nforce4 board got this to work. One post stated that if the standard dual channel driver is installed in the "ide ata/atapi controller area" then trim is working. I went to command prompt and typed "fsutil behavior query disabledeletenotify" The value returned was 0. Supposely this means trim is enabled in win7. Is it working? Don't know. I just want to be able to use ssd toolbox and flash the firmware and i can't as it stands and it's driving me nuts just because i can't do it. I keep thinking there has to be a way. Any ideas? Thanks.
I have an old Dell XPS 600 with an intel pent4 proc, nvidia nforce4 sli intel edition chipset, 1 gb ram, 2 -geforce gtx 7800's, and a couple of 80gb raptors in raid 0. The thing took about 5 minutes to boot and load programs. Got bored and wondered what would happen if i slapped 4gb ram, an intel x25-m 80 gb ssd as os drive and win7 on this relic. I put the raptors as data drives. The results were amazing to say the least. It was like going from a yugo to a vette. I loaded up intel ssd toolbox and it didn't reconize the drive as an ssd but a scsi disk device. What? I went to device manager:

under ide ata/atapi controllers - 1) ata channel 0

2) ata channel 1

3) standard dual channel pci ide controller



under storage - 1) nvidia nforce serial ata controller

2) nvidia nforce serial ata controller

Now i don't know if trim is working or not since it's seen as an scsi drive. I do know i can't use ssd toolbox and can't flash firmware. Any statement i make from here on, i've read on forums or have been told so they may be true or pure bull. It seems the nvidia storage controller is the problem. Alot of posts said i had to get the default microsoft driver to replace the nvidia storage driver. It's not an option when i tried to update or change drivers. Nvidia driver is only one shown. Article KB922976 on microsoft site states that when win7 installs a storage driver, it disables all other storage drivers to speed boot process.Tried everything i could to force it. Uninstalled storage device, rebooted, maybe it'll load default ms driver. Nope. Uninstalled storage device, renamed nvstor.sys driver and rebooted. It either will load default ms driver or bluescreen inaccessible_boot _device. Nope. Just repaired itself and back to normal. (actually pretty impressive for a microsoft os) Starting to get irratated now.I read on a forum where guys had nforce series 6 and 7 boards with the same problem. Now this is weird. They had the microsoft driver (drive seen as scsi) updated nforce driver (still scsi) and then replaced it with microsoft driver and it worked (seen as ssd) Do i have to update driver (even if nvidia site scan said i had current driver) and how do i do it? Not being concerned with whacking system, i download every driver package fron nvidia site , legacy, series 6, series 7. Started installs. Each one showed a few drivers i could install, but no storage or sata controllers so i backed out. I'm stumped though in my defense, i have not read one post out of a thousand where a person with a nforce4 board got this to work. One post stated that if the standard dual channel driver is installed in the "ide ata/atapi controller area" then trim is working. I went to command prompt and typed "fsutil behavior query disabledeletenotify" The value returned was 0. Supposely this means trim is enabled in win7. Is it working? Don't know. I just want to be able to use ssd toolbox and flash the firmware and i can't as it stands and it's driving me nuts just because i can't do it. I keep thinking there has to be a way. Any ideas? Thanks.

#1
Posted 07/22/2010 11:47 PM   
@ RICKBEBE:
Welcome at NVIDIA Forums!

As long as your Intel SSD is connected with the listed "Standard Dual Channel PCI IDE Controller", TRIM will automaticly work under Win7, because the generic standard IDE driver named PCIIDE.SYS is fully supporting the TRIM command.
The difficulties would begin, if you are trying to replace the "Standard Dual Channel PCI IDE Controller" by the "NVIDIA nForce Serial ATA Controller" for your SSD. None of the nForce SATA drivers do support TRIM.

Regards
Fernando
@ RICKBEBE:

Welcome at NVIDIA Forums!



As long as your Intel SSD is connected with the listed "Standard Dual Channel PCI IDE Controller", TRIM will automaticly work under Win7, because the generic standard IDE driver named PCIIDE.SYS is fully supporting the TRIM command.

The difficulties would begin, if you are trying to replace the "Standard Dual Channel PCI IDE Controller" by the "NVIDIA nForce Serial ATA Controller" for your SSD. None of the nForce SATA drivers do support TRIM.



Regards

Fernando

#2
Posted 07/23/2010 11:53 AM   
[quote name='Fernando' post='1092275' date='Jul 23 2010, 07:53 AM']@ RICKBEBE:
Welcome at NVIDIA Forums!

As long as your Intel SSD is connected with the listed "Standard Dual Channel PCI IDE Controller", TRIM will automaticly work under Win7, because the generic standard IDE driver named PCIIDE.SYS is fully supporting the TRIM command.
The difficulties would begin, if you are trying to replace the "Standard Dual Channel PCI IDE Controller" by the "NVIDIA nForce Serial ATA Controller" for your SSD. None of the nForce SATA drivers do support TRIM.

Regards
Fernando[/quote]

Hello Fernado. Thanks for quick reply. Please bear with me, my computer knowledge on a scale of 1-10 is about a -5. I was told i had to change the storage controller (nvidia serial controller (nvstor.sys) to the standard dual channel for it to see the drive as an ssd. Is this correct? I can't seem to make that happen. In my device manager under " ide ata/atapi controllers", i have the standard dual channel installed. The driver details show these four, atapi.sys, ataport.sys, pciide.sys, and pciidex.sys. Does this one driver controll all my drives? I have three, an ssd, and 2 hdd. All three drives show the same driver details as disk.sys and partmgr.sys. I'm not convinced trim is working because when i ran crystaldiskmark, my write times have dropped about 25% since i installed the ssd about 3 weeks ago.(been doing alot of puttering) Thanks again.
[quote name='Fernando' post='1092275' date='Jul 23 2010, 07:53 AM']@ RICKBEBE:

Welcome at NVIDIA Forums!



As long as your Intel SSD is connected with the listed "Standard Dual Channel PCI IDE Controller", TRIM will automaticly work under Win7, because the generic standard IDE driver named PCIIDE.SYS is fully supporting the TRIM command.

The difficulties would begin, if you are trying to replace the "Standard Dual Channel PCI IDE Controller" by the "NVIDIA nForce Serial ATA Controller" for your SSD. None of the nForce SATA drivers do support TRIM.



Regards

Fernando



Hello Fernado. Thanks for quick reply. Please bear with me, my computer knowledge on a scale of 1-10 is about a -5. I was told i had to change the storage controller (nvidia serial controller (nvstor.sys) to the standard dual channel for it to see the drive as an ssd. Is this correct? I can't seem to make that happen. In my device manager under " ide ata/atapi controllers", i have the standard dual channel installed. The driver details show these four, atapi.sys, ataport.sys, pciide.sys, and pciidex.sys. Does this one driver controll all my drives? I have three, an ssd, and 2 hdd. All three drives show the same driver details as disk.sys and partmgr.sys. I'm not convinced trim is working because when i ran crystaldiskmark, my write times have dropped about 25% since i installed the ssd about 3 weeks ago.(been doing alot of puttering) Thanks again.

#3
Posted 07/23/2010 08:17 PM   
[quote name='RICKBEBE' post='1092507' date='Jul 23 2010, 10:17 PM']I was told i had to change the storage controller (nvidia serial controller (nvstor.sys) to the standard dual channel for it to see the drive as an ssd. Is this correct?[/quote]Yes. [quote]I can't seem to make that happen. In my device manager under " ide ata/atapi controllers", i have the standard dual channel installed. The driver details show these four, atapi.sys, ataport.sys, pciide.sys, and pciidex.sys.[/quote]The most important of them is the PCIIDE.SYS, which is the generic MS IDE driver. This is the only available driver, which is able to support TRIM with SSD's running in IDE mode.
[quote]Does this one driver controll all my drives? I have three, an ssd, and 2 hdd. All three drives show the same driver details as disk.sys and partmgr.sys.[/quote]The TRIM supporting driver named PCIIDE.SYS will only work with drives, which are connected with the "Standard Dual Channel PCI IDE Controller". You can check it by doing a right click onto the different "ATA Channels" within the Device Manager. The ATA Channels 0 and 1 belong to the listed "Dual Channel PCI IDE Controller".
[quote]I'm not convinced trim is working because when i ran crystaldiskmark, my write times have dropped about 25% since i installed the ssd about 3 weeks ago.[/quote]If you should realize, that your Intel SSD is still managed by the "NVIDIA nForce Serial ATA Controller", you should replace this Controller by the "Standard Dual Channel PCI IDE Controller" (right click onto the listed "NVIDIA nForce Serial ATA Controller" > choose "Update Driver Software" > let the Device Manager show all compatible devices > choose the "Standard Dual Channel PCI IDE Controller"). After having done that, your SSD will be managed by the TRIM supporting driver named PCIIDE.SYS.
[quote name='RICKBEBE' post='1092507' date='Jul 23 2010, 10:17 PM']I was told i had to change the storage controller (nvidia serial controller (nvstor.sys) to the standard dual channel for it to see the drive as an ssd. Is this correct?Yes.
I can't seem to make that happen. In my device manager under " ide ata/atapi controllers", i have the standard dual channel installed. The driver details show these four, atapi.sys, ataport.sys, pciide.sys, and pciidex.sys.
The most important of them is the PCIIDE.SYS, which is the generic MS IDE driver. This is the only available driver, which is able to support TRIM with SSD's running in IDE mode.

Does this one driver controll all my drives? I have three, an ssd, and 2 hdd. All three drives show the same driver details as disk.sys and partmgr.sys.
The TRIM supporting driver named PCIIDE.SYS will only work with drives, which are connected with the "Standard Dual Channel PCI IDE Controller". You can check it by doing a right click onto the different "ATA Channels" within the Device Manager. The ATA Channels 0 and 1 belong to the listed "Dual Channel PCI IDE Controller".

I'm not convinced trim is working because when i ran crystaldiskmark, my write times have dropped about 25% since i installed the ssd about 3 weeks ago.
If you should realize, that your Intel SSD is still managed by the "NVIDIA nForce Serial ATA Controller", you should replace this Controller by the "Standard Dual Channel PCI IDE Controller" (right click onto the listed "NVIDIA nForce Serial ATA Controller" > choose "Update Driver Software" > let the Device Manager show all compatible devices > choose the "Standard Dual Channel PCI IDE Controller"). After having done that, your SSD will be managed by the TRIM supporting driver named PCIIDE.SYS.

#4
Posted 07/24/2010 06:54 AM   
[quote name='Fernando' post='1092730' date='Jul 24 2010, 02:54 AM']If you should realize, that your Intel SSD is still managed by the "NVIDIA nForce Serial ATA Controller", you should replace this Controller by the "Standard Dual Channel PCI IDE Controller" (right click onto the listed "NVIDIA nForce Serial ATA Controller" > choose "Update Driver Software" > let the Device Manager show all compatible devices > choose the "Standard Dual Channel PCI IDE Controller"). After having done that, your SSD will be managed by the TRIM supporting driver named PCIIDE.SYS.[/quote]

Hello Fernando. Thanks again for the quick reply. In the statement above lies the problem that i'm having. My storage controller is the nvidia serial ata controller (ver 10.6.0.16 (nt .090122-1504) with the driver nvstor.sys. When i try to update, if i choose search automatically, it returns "windows has determined the driver software for your device is up to date" If i pick browse, let me pick from list, the only controller shown is nvidia serial controller. The standard dual channel controller is not listed. On other boards , people with series 6 and 7 boards got the dual channel controller to appear for changing by updating current controller. When i scan my computer on nvidia website, it says i have the current controller. I can't update it. I don't have a clue on how to make it show in the options. In my earlier post i read in microsoft article KB922976 that win7 disables any unused storage controllers during install to speed up start up process. I thought maybe it's disabled. I went to registry. Under hkey_machine>system>current control set>service i opened up pciide and the start value was 0. If i'm not mistaken, (and i probably am .lol) this means it is enabled. i even changed start value from 3 to 0 on msachi to enable it to see what would happen. Nothing. I wrote down driver package in the registry under pciide, went back to driver update, chose browse and pointed it to pccide package in win/system32/drivers/driver repository to the actual package. No go. Uninstalling nvidia controller and re booting just installs it back, uninstalling nvidia controller and renaming nvstor.sys did nothing, win7 just repaired itself. I expected serious issues with that one. Wow. You'd think installing default microsoft conrtroller would be a simple thing, but i'm starting to think it might not be possible with nforce4 borad and win7. Any suggestions? From what i've done so far, you know i'll try anything. System whacking is not a problem. /shifty.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':shifty:' />
[quote name='Fernando' post='1092730' date='Jul 24 2010, 02:54 AM']If you should realize, that your Intel SSD is still managed by the "NVIDIA nForce Serial ATA Controller", you should replace this Controller by the "Standard Dual Channel PCI IDE Controller" (right click onto the listed "NVIDIA nForce Serial ATA Controller" > choose "Update Driver Software" > let the Device Manager show all compatible devices > choose the "Standard Dual Channel PCI IDE Controller"). After having done that, your SSD will be managed by the TRIM supporting driver named PCIIDE.SYS.



Hello Fernando. Thanks again for the quick reply. In the statement above lies the problem that i'm having. My storage controller is the nvidia serial ata controller (ver 10.6.0.16 (nt .090122-1504) with the driver nvstor.sys. When i try to update, if i choose search automatically, it returns "windows has determined the driver software for your device is up to date" If i pick browse, let me pick from list, the only controller shown is nvidia serial controller. The standard dual channel controller is not listed. On other boards , people with series 6 and 7 boards got the dual channel controller to appear for changing by updating current controller. When i scan my computer on nvidia website, it says i have the current controller. I can't update it. I don't have a clue on how to make it show in the options. In my earlier post i read in microsoft article KB922976 that win7 disables any unused storage controllers during install to speed up start up process. I thought maybe it's disabled. I went to registry. Under hkey_machine>system>current control set>service i opened up pciide and the start value was 0. If i'm not mistaken, (and i probably am .lol) this means it is enabled. i even changed start value from 3 to 0 on msachi to enable it to see what would happen. Nothing. I wrote down driver package in the registry under pciide, went back to driver update, chose browse and pointed it to pccide package in win/system32/drivers/driver repository to the actual package. No go. Uninstalling nvidia controller and re booting just installs it back, uninstalling nvidia controller and renaming nvstor.sys did nothing, win7 just repaired itself. I expected serious issues with that one. Wow. You'd think installing default microsoft conrtroller would be a simple thing, but i'm starting to think it might not be possible with nforce4 borad and win7. Any suggestions? From what i've done so far, you know i'll try anything. System whacking is not a problem. /shifty.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':shifty:' />

#5
Posted 07/24/2010 08:53 PM   
@ RICKBEBE:
That is really weird. I have never heard about that difficulties to replace the NVIDIA nForce Controller by the Standard Dual Channel PCI IDE Controller.
This is what I recommend to try:
Right click onto the NVIDIA nForce Serial ATA Controller > Choose the "Update Driver Software" option > "Browse my Computer" > "Let me pick..." > show the path to the file named MSHDC.INF, which is within the WINDOWS\INF folder.
This is the INF file, which is managing the installation of the PCIIDE.SYS driver.
Maybe this will help you to get it installed.

Good luck!
Fernando
@ RICKBEBE:

That is really weird. I have never heard about that difficulties to replace the NVIDIA nForce Controller by the Standard Dual Channel PCI IDE Controller.

This is what I recommend to try:

Right click onto the NVIDIA nForce Serial ATA Controller > Choose the "Update Driver Software" option > "Browse my Computer" > "Let me pick..." > show the path to the file named MSHDC.INF, which is within the WINDOWS\INF folder.

This is the INF file, which is managing the installation of the PCIIDE.SYS driver.

Maybe this will help you to get it installed.



Good luck!

Fernando

#6
Posted 07/24/2010 09:20 PM   
[quote name='Fernando' post='1092999' date='Jul 24 2010, 05:20 PM']@ RICKBEBE:
That is really weird. I have never heard about that difficulties to replace the NVIDIA nForce Controller by the Standard Dual Channel PCI IDE Controller.
This is what I recommend to try:
Right click onto the NVIDIA nForce Serial ATA Controller > Choose the "Update Driver Software" option > "Browse my Computer" > "Let me pick..." > show the path to the file named MSHDC.INF, which is within the WINDOWS\INF folder.
This is the INF file, which is managing the installation of the PCIIDE.SYS driver.
Maybe this will help you to get it installed.

Good luck!
Fernando[/quote]

Tried your suggestion. When i i tried the "let me pick", the browse only let me choose windows\inf. Tried that. Returned windows has determined correct driver installed. Tried to type path, "windows\inf\mshdc.inf. It returned "please enter another location. location does not exist or cannot be reached" I then noticed i have 2 storage controllers (nvidia serial) and 3 drives. Checked and saw ssd and a hhd was on one controller and the other hdd was on other controller. Made changes in bios and swap sata cables to isolate ssd on one controller and make sure both hdd's were on other controller just for something to try. Tried your suggestion again. Same results. This time i also tried "let me pick, have disk' and the browse let me navigate to actual mshdc.inf file. Still nothing. LOL. This getting comical. Fernando, wonder what would happen if i went into registry under Hkey_Local_Machine> Devicemap> SCSI> Choose target ID 0 (ssd drive) and change driver from nvstor to pciide? Kaboom? I thinking there has to be a way to force this through the registry. Thanks for help. Please keep suggestions comming! LOL.
[quote name='Fernando' post='1092999' date='Jul 24 2010, 05:20 PM']@ RICKBEBE:

That is really weird. I have never heard about that difficulties to replace the NVIDIA nForce Controller by the Standard Dual Channel PCI IDE Controller.

This is what I recommend to try:

Right click onto the NVIDIA nForce Serial ATA Controller > Choose the "Update Driver Software" option > "Browse my Computer" > "Let me pick..." > show the path to the file named MSHDC.INF, which is within the WINDOWS\INF folder.

This is the INF file, which is managing the installation of the PCIIDE.SYS driver.

Maybe this will help you to get it installed.



Good luck!

Fernando



Tried your suggestion. When i i tried the "let me pick", the browse only let me choose windows\inf. Tried that. Returned windows has determined correct driver installed. Tried to type path, "windows\inf\mshdc.inf. It returned "please enter another location. location does not exist or cannot be reached" I then noticed i have 2 storage controllers (nvidia serial) and 3 drives. Checked and saw ssd and a hhd was on one controller and the other hdd was on other controller. Made changes in bios and swap sata cables to isolate ssd on one controller and make sure both hdd's were on other controller just for something to try. Tried your suggestion again. Same results. This time i also tried "let me pick, have disk' and the browse let me navigate to actual mshdc.inf file. Still nothing. LOL. This getting comical. Fernando, wonder what would happen if i went into registry under Hkey_Local_Machine> Devicemap> SCSI> Choose target ID 0 (ssd drive) and change driver from nvstor to pciide? Kaboom? I thinking there has to be a way to force this through the registry. Thanks for help. Please keep suggestions comming! LOL.

#7
Posted 07/25/2010 03:55 PM   
@ RICKBEBE:

Thanks for your report, which is very surprising for me, because usually the Windows Operating Systems do it vice versa: They install the generic MS IDE driver instead of the NVIDIA nForce SATA one, which will automaticle lead to a BSOD for users, who have an nForce SataRAID system.

If you are courageous enough, you may try the Registry setting option, but I doubt, that you will succeed this way.

Good luck!
Fernando
@ RICKBEBE:



Thanks for your report, which is very surprising for me, because usually the Windows Operating Systems do it vice versa: They install the generic MS IDE driver instead of the NVIDIA nForce SATA one, which will automaticle lead to a BSOD for users, who have an nForce SataRAID system.



If you are courageous enough, you may try the Registry setting option, but I doubt, that you will succeed this way.



Good luck!

Fernando

#8
Posted 07/25/2010 08:50 PM   
[quote name='Fernando' post='1093409' date='Jul 25 2010, 04:50 PM']@ RICKBEBE:

Thanks for your report, which is very surprising for me, because usually the Windows Operating Systems do it vice versa: They install the generic MS IDE driver instead of the NVIDIA nForce SATA one, which will automaticle lead to a BSOD for users, who have an nForce SataRAID system.

If you are courageous enough, you may try the Registry setting option, but I doubt, that you will succeed this way.

Good luck!
Fernando[/quote]

Well Fernando, Not sure if i'm courageous or just plain stupid but i tried it. lol. First thing i did was to learn how to back up registry and recover from "accidental" changes. I then went into the registry and changed the target id 0 drive (ssd) from nvstor to pciide. I then uninstalled the nvidia storage controller for it and rebooted...........Windows started as normal, replaced nvidia controller and changed registry back to the way it was. This win7 os is the most impressive thing i have ever seen. It's childproof, idiotproof and if you could drink it, probably 180 proof. I'm starting to think i could reformat the ssd and windows would just start up like nothing has happened. lol. I wonder if i can put a pci sata card into this thing to put this drive on? I know less about hardware than i do about software if that is possible. I'm stumped.
[quote name='Fernando' post='1093409' date='Jul 25 2010, 04:50 PM']@ RICKBEBE:



Thanks for your report, which is very surprising for me, because usually the Windows Operating Systems do it vice versa: They install the generic MS IDE driver instead of the NVIDIA nForce SATA one, which will automaticle lead to a BSOD for users, who have an nForce SataRAID system.



If you are courageous enough, you may try the Registry setting option, but I doubt, that you will succeed this way.



Good luck!

Fernando



Well Fernando, Not sure if i'm courageous or just plain stupid but i tried it. lol. First thing i did was to learn how to back up registry and recover from "accidental" changes. I then went into the registry and changed the target id 0 drive (ssd) from nvstor to pciide. I then uninstalled the nvidia storage controller for it and rebooted...........Windows started as normal, replaced nvidia controller and changed registry back to the way it was. This win7 os is the most impressive thing i have ever seen. It's childproof, idiotproof and if you could drink it, probably 180 proof. I'm starting to think i could reformat the ssd and windows would just start up like nothing has happened. lol. I wonder if i can put a pci sata card into this thing to put this drive on? I know less about hardware than i do about software if that is possible. I'm stumped.

#9
Posted 07/26/2010 09:16 PM   
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