Help! Issues with HDMI - HDTV mode and text display! nvidia drivers are making me lose my mi
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Help! I hope nvidia support weighs in on this. Like others I'm having issues with how the drivers handle my EDID over HDMI. I think what will fix it for me is I need to make my nVidia card treat my HDMI output like it's hooked up to a DVI connection or to a PC on HDMI, rather then an HDTV, while also keeping my HDMI audio enabled. I'll explain in detail why I need this below, sorry it's a bit long but it's a weird issue...

I have very odd HDMI issues with my Nvidia based GT220 card (ECS NGT220C-512QZ-F), which is in my HTPC (a Dell GX620). I'm running XP Pro SP3, and have tried multiple drivers but am currently running the latest, 257. I have it hooked up via HDMI to my a/v receiver, an H&K AVR 254. From there it's HDMI to my projector, a Sharp DT-510. The native res of the projector is 1280x720. I am not having resolution or overscan issues though, like some people are. The resolution is right, with no overscan (I had to turn off overscan in my projector to get it to not happen) and it's 1:1 pixel mapped just fine. The intermediate connection to my AVR 254 isn't the problem, it does the same if I hook it up direct to my PJ.

The issue is with text - video/pictures/graphics look great. It's hard to describe without seeing it (if you need I'll try and provide some animated screenshots), but if I have ClearType OFF - A block of text will vary in, intensity, with diagonal stripes or bands thru the block of text, going upper left to lower right. These bands are lighter in, intensity then they should be. As you scroll the block of text, the bands are stationary so the text will change intensity as it passes thru the bands. Hard to describe for sure, but it's kind of like my projection screen, is "wrinkled" diagonally and you're scrolling the text over a wrinkled screen.
If I turn ClearType ON, with normal RGB mode, text becomes surrounded by a blue outline or halo. As you move a block of text around the screen horizontally, the text will often flip to mostly blue or mostly black - the text in Task Manager's process list does this for instance. If I set ClearType to BGR mode, the same thing happens only it's red this time, not blue. That is how I've been leaving it as the red is less noticeable to me (I'm slightly color blind) and having ClearType on makes the "bands" go away so it's more readable.

I know that this issue is with how Nvidia is outputting video for this display, and not the display itself, the receiver, or the cabling, etc; because the really weird thing, is the effect is noticeable even if I connect to this PC, over VNC, using a different PC and monitor! The text shows up the same way even on this remote connection, from multiple PC's. Also, this problem only happens on HDMI, on VGA it's just fine...

Having reddish text that varies in intensity as it's moved around the screen certainly isn't ideal so I've been looking for a fix, which I've sort of found... In looking into people having issues with HDMI on Nvidia cards, I found a lot of mention of a fix that looks to have been promoted by "brianb", which is based on adding a "OverrideEdidFlags0" key to the registry, either by editing the registry or adding it to the driver's INF files etc. You replace start of the string with your display's specific EDID info, and it makes Nvidia not treat your HDMI device like it's an HDTV, which fixes a bunch of issues for people. I did some research, and came up with the following key and location:

[HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SYSTEM\CurrentControlSet\Control\Video\{1 F1EB225-FBA8-479F-A36A-5017D2FB4034}\0000]
"OverrideEdidFlags0"=hex:20,67,63,01,00,00,ff,ff,04,00,00,00 ,7e,01,00

And by using the key and location, it fixed my issue with text! It's never looked better on HDMI then with this key enabled! One big problem though - it disables the audio over HDMI! That's what I need your help with I need to somehow fix this like this key does, but KEEP my HDMI audio. Looking in the nVidia control panel - WITHOUT this key (normal), the monitor reports it's connection as "HDMI - HDTV". WITH the key, the same connection is reported as "DVI - PC". I'm sure the fact that the nVidia card is treating my receiver as a PC over DVI is both what fixes the problem, and disables the HDMI audio... I would think the "fix" for both, might be to make it report the connection as "HDMI - PC". I have no idea how to make it do this though.

I look forward to hearing from you!
Help! I hope nvidia support weighs in on this. Like others I'm having issues with how the drivers handle my EDID over HDMI. I think what will fix it for me is I need to make my nVidia card treat my HDMI output like it's hooked up to a DVI connection or to a PC on HDMI, rather then an HDTV, while also keeping my HDMI audio enabled. I'll explain in detail why I need this below, sorry it's a bit long but it's a weird issue...



I have very odd HDMI issues with my Nvidia based GT220 card (ECS NGT220C-512QZ-F), which is in my HTPC (a Dell GX620). I'm running XP Pro SP3, and have tried multiple drivers but am currently running the latest, 257. I have it hooked up via HDMI to my a/v receiver, an H&K AVR 254. From there it's HDMI to my projector, a Sharp DT-510. The native res of the projector is 1280x720. I am not having resolution or overscan issues though, like some people are. The resolution is right, with no overscan (I had to turn off overscan in my projector to get it to not happen) and it's 1:1 pixel mapped just fine. The intermediate connection to my AVR 254 isn't the problem, it does the same if I hook it up direct to my PJ.



The issue is with text - video/pictures/graphics look great. It's hard to describe without seeing it (if you need I'll try and provide some animated screenshots), but if I have ClearType OFF - A block of text will vary in, intensity, with diagonal stripes or bands thru the block of text, going upper left to lower right. These bands are lighter in, intensity then they should be. As you scroll the block of text, the bands are stationary so the text will change intensity as it passes thru the bands. Hard to describe for sure, but it's kind of like my projection screen, is "wrinkled" diagonally and you're scrolling the text over a wrinkled screen.

If I turn ClearType ON, with normal RGB mode, text becomes surrounded by a blue outline or halo. As you move a block of text around the screen horizontally, the text will often flip to mostly blue or mostly black - the text in Task Manager's process list does this for instance. If I set ClearType to BGR mode, the same thing happens only it's red this time, not blue. That is how I've been leaving it as the red is less noticeable to me (I'm slightly color blind) and having ClearType on makes the "bands" go away so it's more readable.



I know that this issue is with how Nvidia is outputting video for this display, and not the display itself, the receiver, or the cabling, etc; because the really weird thing, is the effect is noticeable even if I connect to this PC, over VNC, using a different PC and monitor! The text shows up the same way even on this remote connection, from multiple PC's. Also, this problem only happens on HDMI, on VGA it's just fine...



Having reddish text that varies in intensity as it's moved around the screen certainly isn't ideal so I've been looking for a fix, which I've sort of found... In looking into people having issues with HDMI on Nvidia cards, I found a lot of mention of a fix that looks to have been promoted by "brianb", which is based on adding a "OverrideEdidFlags0" key to the registry, either by editing the registry or adding it to the driver's INF files etc. You replace start of the string with your display's specific EDID info, and it makes Nvidia not treat your HDMI device like it's an HDTV, which fixes a bunch of issues for people. I did some research, and came up with the following key and location:



[HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SYSTEM\CurrentControlSet\Control\Video\{1 F1EB225-FBA8-479F-A36A-5017D2FB4034}\0000]

"OverrideEdidFlags0"=hex:20,67,63,01,00,00,ff,ff,04,00,00,00 ,7e,01,00



And by using the key and location, it fixed my issue with text! It's never looked better on HDMI then with this key enabled! One big problem though - it disables the audio over HDMI! That's what I need your help with I need to somehow fix this like this key does, but KEEP my HDMI audio. Looking in the nVidia control panel - WITHOUT this key (normal), the monitor reports it's connection as "HDMI - HDTV". WITH the key, the same connection is reported as "DVI - PC". I'm sure the fact that the nVidia card is treating my receiver as a PC over DVI is both what fixes the problem, and disables the HDMI audio... I would think the "fix" for both, might be to make it report the connection as "HDMI - PC". I have no idea how to make it do this though.



I look forward to hearing from you!

#1
Posted 06/19/2010 05:02 AM   
Bump... forums went down for maintenance after I posted this so I figure nvidia staff may not have seen it... Thanks to anyone who can help.
Bump... forums went down for maintenance after I posted this so I figure nvidia staff may not have seen it... Thanks to anyone who can help.

#2
Posted 06/24/2010 05:40 PM   
help? I'm sure there is an nvidia software engineer that knows exactly what needs to be changed...
help? I'm sure there is an nvidia software engineer that knows exactly what needs to be changed...

#3
Posted 07/05/2010 08:07 PM   
Please can someone at Nvidia take a look here?
Please can someone at Nvidia take a look here?

#4
Posted 07/26/2010 07:13 PM   
[quote name='Protonus' post='1093921' date='Jul 26 2010, 03:13 PM']Please can someone at Nvidia take a look here?[/quote]


The bands you are seeing is the avr. Is has an internal video scaler that CANNOT be bypassed. Sux I know because I own one. Awesome receiver and killer sound. I confirmed this with harmon kardon. Even with the video mode set to off the scaling is still effect. No way around it no way to bypass it. Since you are using a projector I am going to assume you are in the 80" plus screen size. These scaling artifacts are more obvious when you blow up the screen that big.

I use a 55 " lcd and I only see a little bit of a "rainbow" effect on some text. Everything looks great despite this. Scaling sux but at least the avr has a killer scaling chip. Plenty of receivers on the market that allow you to bypass and use the hdmi as a simple pass through. Why harmon Kardon did not give us this options baffles me.
[quote name='Protonus' post='1093921' date='Jul 26 2010, 03:13 PM']Please can someone at Nvidia take a look here?





The bands you are seeing is the avr. Is has an internal video scaler that CANNOT be bypassed. Sux I know because I own one. Awesome receiver and killer sound. I confirmed this with harmon kardon. Even with the video mode set to off the scaling is still effect. No way around it no way to bypass it. Since you are using a projector I am going to assume you are in the 80" plus screen size. These scaling artifacts are more obvious when you blow up the screen that big.



I use a 55 " lcd and I only see a little bit of a "rainbow" effect on some text. Everything looks great despite this. Scaling sux but at least the avr has a killer scaling chip. Plenty of receivers on the market that allow you to bypass and use the hdmi as a simple pass through. Why harmon Kardon did not give us this options baffles me.

Asus P5K Deluxe Wifi
Intel Core 2 E6600 @3.65 Ghz
Evga 480 GTX OC Editon 833/2031
Antec 650w SLI approved
Toshiba 55" LCD monitor 1080p
Soundblaster X-fi

#5
Posted 08/14/2010 03:40 PM   
[quote name='Protonus' post='1093921' date='Jul 26 2010, 03:13 PM']Please can someone at Nvidia take a look here?[/quote]


The bands you are seeing is the avr. Is has an internal video scaler that CANNOT be bypassed. Sux I know because I own one. Awesome receiver and killer sound. I confirmed this with harmon kardon. Even with the video mode set to off the scaling is still effect. No way around it no way to bypass it. Since you are using a projector I am going to assume you are in the 80" plus screen size. These scaling artifacts are more obvious when you blow up the screen that big.

I use a 55 " lcd and I only see a little bit of a "rainbow" effect on some text. Everything looks great despite this. Scaling sux but at least the avr has a killer scaling chip. Plenty of receivers on the market that allow you to bypass and use the hdmi as a simple pass through. Why harmon Kardon did not give us this options baffles me.
[quote name='Protonus' post='1093921' date='Jul 26 2010, 03:13 PM']Please can someone at Nvidia take a look here?





The bands you are seeing is the avr. Is has an internal video scaler that CANNOT be bypassed. Sux I know because I own one. Awesome receiver and killer sound. I confirmed this with harmon kardon. Even with the video mode set to off the scaling is still effect. No way around it no way to bypass it. Since you are using a projector I am going to assume you are in the 80" plus screen size. These scaling artifacts are more obvious when you blow up the screen that big.



I use a 55 " lcd and I only see a little bit of a "rainbow" effect on some text. Everything looks great despite this. Scaling sux but at least the avr has a killer scaling chip. Plenty of receivers on the market that allow you to bypass and use the hdmi as a simple pass through. Why harmon Kardon did not give us this options baffles me.

Asus P5K Deluxe Wifi
Intel Core 2 E6600 @3.65 Ghz
Evga 480 GTX OC Editon 833/2031
Antec 650w SLI approved
Toshiba 55" LCD monitor 1080p
Soundblaster X-fi

#6
Posted 08/14/2010 03:40 PM   
[quote name='Turdhat' post='1103657' date='Aug 14 2010, 11:40 AM']The bands you are seeing is the avr. Is has an internal video scaler that CANNOT be bypassed. Sux I know because I own one. Awesome receiver and killer sound. I confirmed this with harmon kardon. Even with the video mode set to off the scaling is still effect. No way around it no way to bypass it. Since you are using a projector I am going to assume you are in the 80" plus screen size. These scaling artifacts are more obvious when you blow up the screen that big.

I use a 55 " lcd and I only see a little bit of a "rainbow" effect on some text. Everything looks great despite this. Scaling sux but at least the avr has a killer scaling chip. Plenty of receivers on the market that allow you to bypass and use the hdmi as a simple pass through. Why harmon Kardon did not give us this options baffles me.[/quote]

I wish that were true... but it's not. The AVR isn't the problem. I'm assuming you didn't read my original post completely, but as I mentioned, this still happens with the HPTC hooked directly to the projector, even without the AVR in between. The "rainbow" text effect also shows up in remote connection's to this PC like VNC and pcAW and RDP. Also, I can get it to stop happening completely via the registry hack that tells it to output like it's a DVI monitor instead of an HDMI HDTV - but then I lose HDMI audio so it's not a "fix" I can use. Also, I don't have this problem on VGA on same card, or using HDMI on an inferior ATI card in the same PC.

So the problem is definitely with the way Nvidia is passing video out on HDMI, and has nothing to do with the AVR. Thanks for your suggestion though.

Re: the HDMI scaler in the AVR though, i've talked to H&K about this, and if you don't enable any video effects such as brightness/contrast/color over rides, and set it to the native res of your TV and devices, then the scaler doesn't do anything to the video at all. Yes, it does in fact touch the video stream (you can confirm this by noticing in Windows that it knows it's connected to an AVR 254/354 via HDMI's EDID, vs your display when directly connect, so you're right, it's not a bypass). But it doesn't do anything TO the video, no artifacts or alterations will be present at all. This is confirmed by many users on avsforums including myself.
[quote name='Turdhat' post='1103657' date='Aug 14 2010, 11:40 AM']The bands you are seeing is the avr. Is has an internal video scaler that CANNOT be bypassed. Sux I know because I own one. Awesome receiver and killer sound. I confirmed this with harmon kardon. Even with the video mode set to off the scaling is still effect. No way around it no way to bypass it. Since you are using a projector I am going to assume you are in the 80" plus screen size. These scaling artifacts are more obvious when you blow up the screen that big.



I use a 55 " lcd and I only see a little bit of a "rainbow" effect on some text. Everything looks great despite this. Scaling sux but at least the avr has a killer scaling chip. Plenty of receivers on the market that allow you to bypass and use the hdmi as a simple pass through. Why harmon Kardon did not give us this options baffles me.



I wish that were true... but it's not. The AVR isn't the problem. I'm assuming you didn't read my original post completely, but as I mentioned, this still happens with the HPTC hooked directly to the projector, even without the AVR in between. The "rainbow" text effect also shows up in remote connection's to this PC like VNC and pcAW and RDP. Also, I can get it to stop happening completely via the registry hack that tells it to output like it's a DVI monitor instead of an HDMI HDTV - but then I lose HDMI audio so it's not a "fix" I can use. Also, I don't have this problem on VGA on same card, or using HDMI on an inferior ATI card in the same PC.



So the problem is definitely with the way Nvidia is passing video out on HDMI, and has nothing to do with the AVR. Thanks for your suggestion though.



Re: the HDMI scaler in the AVR though, i've talked to H&K about this, and if you don't enable any video effects such as brightness/contrast/color over rides, and set it to the native res of your TV and devices, then the scaler doesn't do anything to the video at all. Yes, it does in fact touch the video stream (you can confirm this by noticing in Windows that it knows it's connected to an AVR 254/354 via HDMI's EDID, vs your display when directly connect, so you're right, it's not a bypass). But it doesn't do anything TO the video, no artifacts or alterations will be present at all. This is confirmed by many users on avsforums including myself.

#7
Posted 08/14/2010 05:31 PM   
[quote name='Turdhat' post='1103657' date='Aug 14 2010, 11:40 AM']The bands you are seeing is the avr. Is has an internal video scaler that CANNOT be bypassed. Sux I know because I own one. Awesome receiver and killer sound. I confirmed this with harmon kardon. Even with the video mode set to off the scaling is still effect. No way around it no way to bypass it. Since you are using a projector I am going to assume you are in the 80" plus screen size. These scaling artifacts are more obvious when you blow up the screen that big.

I use a 55 " lcd and I only see a little bit of a "rainbow" effect on some text. Everything looks great despite this. Scaling sux but at least the avr has a killer scaling chip. Plenty of receivers on the market that allow you to bypass and use the hdmi as a simple pass through. Why harmon Kardon did not give us this options baffles me.[/quote]

I wish that were true... but it's not. The AVR isn't the problem. I'm assuming you didn't read my original post completely, but as I mentioned, this still happens with the HPTC hooked directly to the projector, even without the AVR in between. The "rainbow" text effect also shows up in remote connection's to this PC like VNC and pcAW and RDP. Also, I can get it to stop happening completely via the registry hack that tells it to output like it's a DVI monitor instead of an HDMI HDTV - but then I lose HDMI audio so it's not a "fix" I can use. Also, I don't have this problem on VGA on same card, or using HDMI on an inferior ATI card in the same PC.

So the problem is definitely with the way Nvidia is passing video out on HDMI, and has nothing to do with the AVR. Thanks for your suggestion though.

Re: the HDMI scaler in the AVR though, i've talked to H&K about this, and if you don't enable any video effects such as brightness/contrast/color over rides, and set it to the native res of your TV and devices, then the scaler doesn't do anything to the video at all. Yes, it does in fact touch the video stream (you can confirm this by noticing in Windows that it knows it's connected to an AVR 254/354 via HDMI's EDID, vs your display when directly connect, so you're right, it's not a bypass). But it doesn't do anything TO the video, no artifacts or alterations will be present at all. This is confirmed by many users on avsforums including myself.
[quote name='Turdhat' post='1103657' date='Aug 14 2010, 11:40 AM']The bands you are seeing is the avr. Is has an internal video scaler that CANNOT be bypassed. Sux I know because I own one. Awesome receiver and killer sound. I confirmed this with harmon kardon. Even with the video mode set to off the scaling is still effect. No way around it no way to bypass it. Since you are using a projector I am going to assume you are in the 80" plus screen size. These scaling artifacts are more obvious when you blow up the screen that big.



I use a 55 " lcd and I only see a little bit of a "rainbow" effect on some text. Everything looks great despite this. Scaling sux but at least the avr has a killer scaling chip. Plenty of receivers on the market that allow you to bypass and use the hdmi as a simple pass through. Why harmon Kardon did not give us this options baffles me.



I wish that were true... but it's not. The AVR isn't the problem. I'm assuming you didn't read my original post completely, but as I mentioned, this still happens with the HPTC hooked directly to the projector, even without the AVR in between. The "rainbow" text effect also shows up in remote connection's to this PC like VNC and pcAW and RDP. Also, I can get it to stop happening completely via the registry hack that tells it to output like it's a DVI monitor instead of an HDMI HDTV - but then I lose HDMI audio so it's not a "fix" I can use. Also, I don't have this problem on VGA on same card, or using HDMI on an inferior ATI card in the same PC.



So the problem is definitely with the way Nvidia is passing video out on HDMI, and has nothing to do with the AVR. Thanks for your suggestion though.



Re: the HDMI scaler in the AVR though, i've talked to H&K about this, and if you don't enable any video effects such as brightness/contrast/color over rides, and set it to the native res of your TV and devices, then the scaler doesn't do anything to the video at all. Yes, it does in fact touch the video stream (you can confirm this by noticing in Windows that it knows it's connected to an AVR 254/354 via HDMI's EDID, vs your display when directly connect, so you're right, it's not a bypass). But it doesn't do anything TO the video, no artifacts or alterations will be present at all. This is confirmed by many users on avsforums including myself.

#8
Posted 08/14/2010 05:31 PM   
[quote name='Protonus' post='1103700' date='Aug 14 2010, 01:31 PM']I wish that were true... but it's not. The AVR isn't the problem. I'm assuming you didn't read my original post completely, but as I mentioned, this still happens with the HPTC hooked directly to the projector, even without the AVR in between. The "rainbow" text effect also shows up in remote connection's to this PC like VNC and pcAW and RDP. Also, I can get it to stop happening completely via the registry hack that tells it to output like it's a DVI monitor instead of an HDMI HDTV - but then I lose HDMI audio so it's not a "fix" I can use. Also, I don't have this problem on VGA on same card, or using HDMI on an inferior ATI card in the same PC.

So the problem is definitely with the way Nvidia is passing video out on HDMI, and has nothing to do with the AVR. Thanks for your suggestion though.

Re: the HDMI scaler in the AVR though, i've talked to H&K about this, and if you don't enable any video effects such as brightness/contrast/color over rides, and set it to the native res of your TV and devices, then the scaler doesn't do anything to the video at all. Yes, it does in fact touch the video stream (you can confirm this by noticing in Windows that it knows it's connected to an AVR 254/354 via HDMI's EDID, vs your display when directly connect, so you're right, it's not a bypass). But it doesn't do anything TO the video, no artifacts or alterations will be present at all. This is confirmed by many users on avsforums including myself.[/quote]

Man, I have read the opposite at avs forum myself. Weird. I see scaling artifacts (very minor to the point I dont care and use it that way) on my Toshiba 55 zv650 over hdmi. I tested and saw scaling myself with the avr video mode to off and this is what I did.

I ran HDMI direct from dvi out on my gtx 480 with an official Nvidia DVI to HDMI adapter to the toshibia 55 incher and ran the second DVI but output to the AVR. Two official NVidia adapters and two identical high quality cables (1.3 I think)

The computer saw this as two separate displays and I set it to clone mode so I could switch back and forth with calibration images. I also went as far as to use the same input on the TV by manually switching.

Issue 1 greyscale and brightness detail loss.

When using a gamma calibration screen with a graysacle bar (0 thru 255 ) everything past 224 was indistinguishable with no visable graduations from 224 to 255. I also used this same calibration image on my ps3, 360 and even the nintendo wii and found the same issues. When bypassing the avr all graduations of the grayscale bar are visible . (you should try this yourself)

This means details are being lost. I know it is not the display as my testing eliminates that.

Issue two: Scaling is always engaged.

Sharpness and resolution calibration images are the best way to see if a scaler is in. These are high contrast images that use high contrast dots (white dots black background) at different densities to see if the monitor is capable is producing all the pixels of a given resolution. LIttle known that not all 1920x1080 monitors produce the 2,073,600 pixels and can fall short buy few thousand in some cases. if that makes any sense. The "rainbow effect" we discussed is the scaling artifact and when using these high density dot tests I can see the scaler in action clearly by moving the screen left to right. The fine density of dots reveals the scaler by changing slightly in brightness when you move them around my minimizing and dragging the screen. This also means the avr is dropping pixels not giving a true 1080p image. Not much but I see it.

When connected direct HDMI to my display with the AVR out of the loop all dots resolve and do no change intensity and all greyscale and color tests are on the money as my set was ISF calibrated 3 months ago. I am damn near perfect NTSC color and grey scale on this set. HE set custom pic modes by editing the tv's hidden tech only service menu to make the built in modes reflect his changes. ONe for the AVR and one for direct.

Issue 4 and to me the worst one of all. VIDEO LAG !

See this thread.

[url="http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1043407&page=57"]http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread....407&page=57[/url]

Long story short the AVR introduces about 50ms of lag to video REGARDLESS of any setting. I confirmed this by hooking up an old CRT which happens to do 1920x1080@ 60 (even though it is squashed as it is not widescreen) to one output and the AVR to the second again in clone mode.

I tested using this method and found it to be true.

[url="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6fe8GWgxPwA"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6fe8GWgxPwA[/url]

This is my xp with the avr and Harmon Kardon has told me thats just the way it is.



The AVR is awesome sauce man. The sound is so detailed and rich that for the money you cant beat it. The scaling issue is small as the Faroudja DCDi Cinemaâ„¢ 10-bit Torino chip in the avr is kick ass and even rivals much more expensive dedicated scalers. The problem from what I was told by a Harmon Kardon engineer at their head quarters (before India started taking their calls :) ) is that while the chip has a bypass mode there is no true electronic bypass so that the signals is never routed around the chip
[quote name='Protonus' post='1103700' date='Aug 14 2010, 01:31 PM']I wish that were true... but it's not. The AVR isn't the problem. I'm assuming you didn't read my original post completely, but as I mentioned, this still happens with the HPTC hooked directly to the projector, even without the AVR in between. The "rainbow" text effect also shows up in remote connection's to this PC like VNC and pcAW and RDP. Also, I can get it to stop happening completely via the registry hack that tells it to output like it's a DVI monitor instead of an HDMI HDTV - but then I lose HDMI audio so it's not a "fix" I can use. Also, I don't have this problem on VGA on same card, or using HDMI on an inferior ATI card in the same PC.



So the problem is definitely with the way Nvidia is passing video out on HDMI, and has nothing to do with the AVR. Thanks for your suggestion though.



Re: the HDMI scaler in the AVR though, i've talked to H&K about this, and if you don't enable any video effects such as brightness/contrast/color over rides, and set it to the native res of your TV and devices, then the scaler doesn't do anything to the video at all. Yes, it does in fact touch the video stream (you can confirm this by noticing in Windows that it knows it's connected to an AVR 254/354 via HDMI's EDID, vs your display when directly connect, so you're right, it's not a bypass). But it doesn't do anything TO the video, no artifacts or alterations will be present at all. This is confirmed by many users on avsforums including myself.



Man, I have read the opposite at avs forum myself. Weird. I see scaling artifacts (very minor to the point I dont care and use it that way) on my Toshiba 55 zv650 over hdmi. I tested and saw scaling myself with the avr video mode to off and this is what I did.



I ran HDMI direct from dvi out on my gtx 480 with an official Nvidia DVI to HDMI adapter to the toshibia 55 incher and ran the second DVI but output to the AVR. Two official NVidia adapters and two identical high quality cables (1.3 I think)



The computer saw this as two separate displays and I set it to clone mode so I could switch back and forth with calibration images. I also went as far as to use the same input on the TV by manually switching.



Issue 1 greyscale and brightness detail loss.



When using a gamma calibration screen with a graysacle bar (0 thru 255 ) everything past 224 was indistinguishable with no visable graduations from 224 to 255. I also used this same calibration image on my ps3, 360 and even the nintendo wii and found the same issues. When bypassing the avr all graduations of the grayscale bar are visible . (you should try this yourself)



This means details are being lost. I know it is not the display as my testing eliminates that.



Issue two: Scaling is always engaged.



Sharpness and resolution calibration images are the best way to see if a scaler is in. These are high contrast images that use high contrast dots (white dots black background) at different densities to see if the monitor is capable is producing all the pixels of a given resolution. LIttle known that not all 1920x1080 monitors produce the 2,073,600 pixels and can fall short buy few thousand in some cases. if that makes any sense. The "rainbow effect" we discussed is the scaling artifact and when using these high density dot tests I can see the scaler in action clearly by moving the screen left to right. The fine density of dots reveals the scaler by changing slightly in brightness when you move them around my minimizing and dragging the screen. This also means the avr is dropping pixels not giving a true 1080p image. Not much but I see it.



When connected direct HDMI to my display with the AVR out of the loop all dots resolve and do no change intensity and all greyscale and color tests are on the money as my set was ISF calibrated 3 months ago. I am damn near perfect NTSC color and grey scale on this set. HE set custom pic modes by editing the tv's hidden tech only service menu to make the built in modes reflect his changes. ONe for the AVR and one for direct.



Issue 4 and to me the worst one of all. VIDEO LAG !



See this thread.



http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread....407&page=57



Long story short the AVR introduces about 50ms of lag to video REGARDLESS of any setting. I confirmed this by hooking up an old CRT which happens to do 1920x1080@ 60 (even though it is squashed as it is not widescreen) to one output and the AVR to the second again in clone mode.



I tested using this method and found it to be true.



rel="nofollow" target = "_blank"> />


This is my xp with the avr and Harmon Kardon has told me thats just the way it is.







The AVR is awesome sauce man. The sound is so detailed and rich that for the money you cant beat it. The scaling issue is small as the Faroudja DCDi Cinemaâ„¢ 10-bit Torino chip in the avr is kick ass and even rivals much more expensive dedicated scalers. The problem from what I was told by a Harmon Kardon engineer at their head quarters (before India started taking their calls :) ) is that while the chip has a bypass mode there is no true electronic bypass so that the signals is never routed around the chip
[quote name='Protonus' post='1103700' date='Aug 14 2010, 01:31 PM']I wish that were true... but it's not. The AVR isn't the problem. I'm assuming you didn't read my original post completely, but as I mentioned, this still happens with the HPTC hooked directly to the projector, even without the AVR in between. The "rainbow" text effect also shows up in remote connection's to this PC like VNC and pcAW and RDP. Also, I can get it to stop happening completely via the registry hack that tells it to output like it's a DVI monitor instead of an HDMI HDTV - but then I lose HDMI audio so it's not a "fix" I can use. Also, I don't have this problem on VGA on same card, or using HDMI on an inferior ATI card in the same PC.

So the problem is definitely with the way Nvidia is passing video out on HDMI, and has nothing to do with the AVR. Thanks for your suggestion though.

Re: the HDMI scaler in the AVR though, i've talked to H&K about this, and if you don't enable any video effects such as brightness/contrast/color over rides, and set it to the native res of your TV and devices, then the scaler doesn't do anything to the video at all. Yes, it does in fact touch the video stream (you can confirm this by noticing in Windows that it knows it's connected to an AVR 254/354 via HDMI's EDID, vs your display when directly connect, so you're right, it's not a bypass). But it doesn't do anything TO the video, no artifacts or alterations will be present at all. This is confirmed by many users on avsforums including myself.[/quote]

Man, I have read the opposite at avs forum myself. Weird. I see scaling artifacts (very minor to the point I dont care and use it that way) on my Toshiba 55 zv650 over hdmi. I tested and saw scaling myself with the avr video mode to off and this is what I did.

I ran HDMI direct from dvi out on my gtx 480 with an official Nvidia DVI to HDMI adapter to the toshibia 55 incher and ran the second DVI but output to the AVR. Two official NVidia adapters and two identical high quality cables (1.3 I think)

The computer saw this as two separate displays and I set it to clone mode so I could switch back and forth with calibration images. I also went as far as to use the same input on the TV by manually switching.

Issue 1 greyscale and brightness detail loss.

When using a gamma calibration screen with a graysacle bar (0 thru 255 ) everything past 224 was indistinguishable with no visable graduations from 224 to 255. I also used this same calibration image on my ps3, 360 and even the nintendo wii and found the same issues. When bypassing the avr all graduations of the grayscale bar are visible . (you should try this yourself)

This means details are being lost. I know it is not the display as my testing eliminates that.

Issue two: Scaling is always engaged.

Sharpness and resolution calibration images are the best way to see if a scaler is in. These are high contrast images that use high contrast dots (white dots black background) at different densities to see if the monitor is capable is producing all the pixels of a given resolution. LIttle known that not all 1920x1080 monitors produce the 2,073,600 pixels and can fall short buy few thousand in some cases. if that makes any sense. The "rainbow effect" we discussed is the scaling artifact and when using these high density dot tests I can see the scaler in action clearly by moving the screen left to right. The fine density of dots reveals the scaler by changing slightly in brightness when you move them around my minimizing and dragging the screen. This also means the avr is dropping pixels not giving a true 1080p image. Not much but I see it.

When connected direct HDMI to my display with the AVR out of the loop all dots resolve and do no change intensity and all greyscale and color tests are on the money as my set was ISF calibrated 3 months ago. I am damn near perfect NTSC color and grey scale on this set. HE set custom pic modes by editing the tv's hidden tech only service menu to make the built in modes reflect his changes. ONe for the AVR and one for direct.

Issue 4 and to me the worst one of all. VIDEO LAG !

See this thread.

[url="http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1043407&page=57"]http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread....407&page=57[/url]

Long story short the AVR introduces about 50ms of lag to video REGARDLESS of any setting. I confirmed this by hooking up an old CRT which happens to do 1920x1080@ 60 (even though it is squashed as it is not widescreen) to one output and the AVR to the second again in clone mode.

I tested using this method and found it to be true.

[url="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6fe8GWgxPwA"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6fe8GWgxPwA[/url]

This is my xp with the avr and Harmon Kardon has told me thats just the way it is.



The AVR is awesome sauce man. The sound is so detailed and rich that for the money you cant beat it. The scaling issue is small as the Faroudja DCDi Cinemaâ„¢ 10-bit Torino chip in the avr is kick ass and even rivals much more expensive dedicated scalers. The problem from what I was told by a Harmon Kardon engineer at their head quarters (before India started taking their calls :) ) is that while the chip has a bypass mode there is no true electronic bypass so that the signals is never routed around the chip
[quote name='Protonus' post='1103700' date='Aug 14 2010, 01:31 PM']I wish that were true... but it's not. The AVR isn't the problem. I'm assuming you didn't read my original post completely, but as I mentioned, this still happens with the HPTC hooked directly to the projector, even without the AVR in between. The "rainbow" text effect also shows up in remote connection's to this PC like VNC and pcAW and RDP. Also, I can get it to stop happening completely via the registry hack that tells it to output like it's a DVI monitor instead of an HDMI HDTV - but then I lose HDMI audio so it's not a "fix" I can use. Also, I don't have this problem on VGA on same card, or using HDMI on an inferior ATI card in the same PC.



So the problem is definitely with the way Nvidia is passing video out on HDMI, and has nothing to do with the AVR. Thanks for your suggestion though.



Re: the HDMI scaler in the AVR though, i've talked to H&K about this, and if you don't enable any video effects such as brightness/contrast/color over rides, and set it to the native res of your TV and devices, then the scaler doesn't do anything to the video at all. Yes, it does in fact touch the video stream (you can confirm this by noticing in Windows that it knows it's connected to an AVR 254/354 via HDMI's EDID, vs your display when directly connect, so you're right, it's not a bypass). But it doesn't do anything TO the video, no artifacts or alterations will be present at all. This is confirmed by many users on avsforums including myself.



Man, I have read the opposite at avs forum myself. Weird. I see scaling artifacts (very minor to the point I dont care and use it that way) on my Toshiba 55 zv650 over hdmi. I tested and saw scaling myself with the avr video mode to off and this is what I did.



I ran HDMI direct from dvi out on my gtx 480 with an official Nvidia DVI to HDMI adapter to the toshibia 55 incher and ran the second DVI but output to the AVR. Two official NVidia adapters and two identical high quality cables (1.3 I think)



The computer saw this as two separate displays and I set it to clone mode so I could switch back and forth with calibration images. I also went as far as to use the same input on the TV by manually switching.



Issue 1 greyscale and brightness detail loss.



When using a gamma calibration screen with a graysacle bar (0 thru 255 ) everything past 224 was indistinguishable with no visable graduations from 224 to 255. I also used this same calibration image on my ps3, 360 and even the nintendo wii and found the same issues. When bypassing the avr all graduations of the grayscale bar are visible . (you should try this yourself)



This means details are being lost. I know it is not the display as my testing eliminates that.



Issue two: Scaling is always engaged.



Sharpness and resolution calibration images are the best way to see if a scaler is in. These are high contrast images that use high contrast dots (white dots black background) at different densities to see if the monitor is capable is producing all the pixels of a given resolution. LIttle known that not all 1920x1080 monitors produce the 2,073,600 pixels and can fall short buy few thousand in some cases. if that makes any sense. The "rainbow effect" we discussed is the scaling artifact and when using these high density dot tests I can see the scaler in action clearly by moving the screen left to right. The fine density of dots reveals the scaler by changing slightly in brightness when you move them around my minimizing and dragging the screen. This also means the avr is dropping pixels not giving a true 1080p image. Not much but I see it.



When connected direct HDMI to my display with the AVR out of the loop all dots resolve and do no change intensity and all greyscale and color tests are on the money as my set was ISF calibrated 3 months ago. I am damn near perfect NTSC color and grey scale on this set. HE set custom pic modes by editing the tv's hidden tech only service menu to make the built in modes reflect his changes. ONe for the AVR and one for direct.



Issue 4 and to me the worst one of all. VIDEO LAG !



See this thread.



http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread....407&page=57



Long story short the AVR introduces about 50ms of lag to video REGARDLESS of any setting. I confirmed this by hooking up an old CRT which happens to do 1920x1080@ 60 (even though it is squashed as it is not widescreen) to one output and the AVR to the second again in clone mode.



I tested using this method and found it to be true.



rel="nofollow" target = "_blank"> />


This is my xp with the avr and Harmon Kardon has told me thats just the way it is.







The AVR is awesome sauce man. The sound is so detailed and rich that for the money you cant beat it. The scaling issue is small as the Faroudja DCDi Cinemaâ„¢ 10-bit Torino chip in the avr is kick ass and even rivals much more expensive dedicated scalers. The problem from what I was told by a Harmon Kardon engineer at their head quarters (before India started taking their calls :) ) is that while the chip has a bypass mode there is no true electronic bypass so that the signals is never routed around the chip
Requesting a mod delete the prior post or break it out to a new thread... it is unrelated to my issue (my problem happens without the AVR connected so Turdhat your issues have nothing to do with my thread...) and I don't want to see my thread get any further off topic since no one from Nvidia has replied yet...
Requesting a mod delete the prior post or break it out to a new thread... it is unrelated to my issue (my problem happens without the AVR connected so Turdhat your issues have nothing to do with my thread...) and I don't want to see my thread get any further off topic since no one from Nvidia has replied yet...

#11
Posted 08/15/2010 11:51 PM   
Requesting a mod delete the prior post or break it out to a new thread... it is unrelated to my issue (my problem happens without the AVR connected so Turdhat your issues have nothing to do with my thread...) and I don't want to see my thread get any further off topic since no one from Nvidia has replied yet...
Requesting a mod delete the prior post or break it out to a new thread... it is unrelated to my issue (my problem happens without the AVR connected so Turdhat your issues have nothing to do with my thread...) and I don't want to see my thread get any further off topic since no one from Nvidia has replied yet...

#12
Posted 08/15/2010 11:51 PM   
This forum is a user-to-user support forum. There are no Nvidia engineers here to provide support. If you want official support, file a report at [url="http://nvidia-submit.custhelp.com/cgi-bin/nvidia_submit.cfg/php/enduser/std_alp.php"]http://nvidia-submit.custhelp.com/cgi-bin/...ser/std_alp.php[/url] and hopefully an Nvidia engineer will reply.

Addendum: the link above is for filing a bug report. If you have questions which you want Nvidia engineers to answer, go here instead: [url="http://nvidia.custhelp.com/cgi-bin/nvidia.cfg/php/enduser/std_alp.php"]http://nvidia.custhelp.com/cgi-bin/nvidia....ser/std_alp.php[/url]
This forum is a user-to-user support forum. There are no Nvidia engineers here to provide support. If you want official support, file a report at http://nvidia-submit.custhelp.com/cgi-bin/...ser/std_alp.php and hopefully an Nvidia engineer will reply.



Addendum: the link above is for filing a bug report. If you have questions which you want Nvidia engineers to answer, go here instead: http://nvidia.custhelp.com/cgi-bin/nvidia....ser/std_alp.php

CPU: Intel Core i5-2550K @4.4GHz
Mainboard: MSI Z77A-G43 (Intel Z77 chipset)
Graphics: Palit GeForce GTX 970 JetStream (GM204 @1152MHz)
RAM: 2 x 4GB Visipro PC3-12800 (1.5V @933MHz)
OS: Windows 7 Ultimate 64-bit Service Pack 1
PSU: Seasonic Eco 600W SS-600BT Active PFC T3
Monitor: Asus VX239H (23" Full HD AH-IPS LED Display)

#13
Posted 08/16/2010 04:58 AM   
This forum is a user-to-user support forum. There are no Nvidia engineers here to provide support. If you want official support, file a report at [url="http://nvidia-submit.custhelp.com/cgi-bin/nvidia_submit.cfg/php/enduser/std_alp.php"]http://nvidia-submit.custhelp.com/cgi-bin/...ser/std_alp.php[/url] and hopefully an Nvidia engineer will reply.

Addendum: the link above is for filing a bug report. If you have questions which you want Nvidia engineers to answer, go here instead: [url="http://nvidia.custhelp.com/cgi-bin/nvidia.cfg/php/enduser/std_alp.php"]http://nvidia.custhelp.com/cgi-bin/nvidia....ser/std_alp.php[/url]
This forum is a user-to-user support forum. There are no Nvidia engineers here to provide support. If you want official support, file a report at http://nvidia-submit.custhelp.com/cgi-bin/...ser/std_alp.php and hopefully an Nvidia engineer will reply.



Addendum: the link above is for filing a bug report. If you have questions which you want Nvidia engineers to answer, go here instead: http://nvidia.custhelp.com/cgi-bin/nvidia....ser/std_alp.php

CPU: Intel Core i5-2550K @4.4GHz
Mainboard: MSI Z77A-G43 (Intel Z77 chipset)
Graphics: Palit GeForce GTX 970 JetStream (GM204 @1152MHz)
RAM: 2 x 4GB Visipro PC3-12800 (1.5V @933MHz)
OS: Windows 7 Ultimate 64-bit Service Pack 1
PSU: Seasonic Eco 600W SS-600BT Active PFC T3
Monitor: Asus VX239H (23" Full HD AH-IPS LED Display)

#14
Posted 08/16/2010 04:58 AM   
[quote name='Ital' post='1104415' date='Aug 16 2010, 04:58 AM']This forum is a user-to-user support forum. There are no Nvidia engineers here to provide support. If you want official support, file a report at [url="http://nvidia-submit.custhelp.com/cgi-bin/nvidia_submit.cfg/php/enduser/std_alp.php"]http://nvidia-submit.custhelp.com/cgi-bin/...ser/std_alp.php[/url] and hopefully an Nvidia engineer will reply.

Addendum: the link above is for filing a bug report. If you have questions which you want Nvidia engineers to answer, go here instead: [url="http://nvidia.custhelp.com/cgi-bin/nvidia.cfg/php/enduser/std_alp.php"]http://nvidia.custhelp.com/cgi-bin/nvidia....ser/std_alp.php[/url][/quote]
I am am glad things are fine now.[img]http://www.picmall24.com/img/Bd/BN.gif[/img]
[quote name='Ital' post='1104415' date='Aug 16 2010, 04:58 AM']This forum is a user-to-user support forum. There are no Nvidia engineers here to provide support. If you want official support, file a report at http://nvidia-submit.custhelp.com/cgi-bin/...ser/std_alp.php and hopefully an Nvidia engineer will reply.



Addendum: the link above is for filing a bug report. If you have questions which you want Nvidia engineers to answer, go here instead: http://nvidia.custhelp.com/cgi-bin/nvidia....ser/std_alp.php

I am am glad things are fine now.Image

#15
Posted 08/16/2010 07:58 AM   
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