GeForce 3D Vision QA Response Latest: 1/18/2010
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Kindly use the the 3D Vision QA thread to submit questions to be answered by NVIDIA regarding GeForce 3D Vision: [url="http://forums.nvidia.com/index.php?showtopic=152118"]http://forums.nvidia.com/index.php?showtopic=152118[/url]

Please keep your participation in this thread entirely focused on the responses presented. Off-topic posts will be terminated with extreme prejudice. To better facilitate this dialog please clearly and concisely state your response before filling in every detail. :)


[center]
1/18/2010[/center]
I'm pleased to post the first set of responses from NVIDIA's 3D Vision Product Manager, Andrew Fear.

[b]1. When will NVIDIA add 3D Vision support for Quad and 3-way SLI?[/b]

In our latest 3D Vision R195 drivers, we do support 3-way and Quad SLI as a beta. We aren't officially claiming support yet since we haven't finished performance tuning it. However, any 3D Vision owner with these SLI configs should absolutely try it and give us your comments.


[b]2. Will we see OpenGl 3DVision support soon?[/b]

Great question. We can't commit to a support schedule yet for OpenGL 3D Vision. We are working on it and many other new features. I would like to ask the community, what are the applications that are driving the demand for this feature?


[b]3. Can we expect that more features will be added to 3D Vision to help with compatibility and user control, such as, shutter sync timing, custom profiles and a power user settings mode?[/b]

This is a really interesting question, and let me take each feature at a time.[list]
[*][b]Shutter sync timing.[/b] This is a feature that shouldn’t be needed. We custom tune all of the timing for each display and it should work properly. If you are having problems, this is a bug and I would like to know what displays are having the problems so we can fix them.
[*][b]Custom profiles.[/b] I would love to hear what features you want since we are always looking for better profiles. What do you want to add?
[/list]
[b]4. Are you going to fix the framerate impact associated with enabling the crosshair while using 3D Vision?[/b]

This problem you are referring to is related to our crosshair solution. The way the crosshair is calculated does take some 3D horsepower. We are pursuing two options: 1) have the game developer fix them (which we are making some progress on) like Borderland’s latest patch, and 2) investigate better techniques for the crosshair. Unfortunately I don’t have a timetable for a fix for users right now.


[b]5. The last two driver releases (1.16 CD beta and 1.17 CD) contain a bug which prevents users with generic CRTs, generic DLP TVs (like Samsungs), and at least some DLP projectors from successfully completing the 3D Vision Setup Wizard. Our displays aren't recognized as 3D Ready (despite the fact that they worked fine with all drivers up to 1.15 CD) and so we're only able to select 3D Vision Discover mode (i.e. anaglyph).[/b]

This problem should be fixed with our latest CD v1.19 on NVIDIA.com [url="http://www.nvidia.com/object/geforce_3D_vision_winvista_win7_CD_1.19.html"]http://www.nvidia.com/object/geforce_3D_vi...n7_CD_1.19.html[/url]. If users are still having problems, please let me know.
Kindly use the the 3D Vision QA thread to submit questions to be answered by NVIDIA regarding GeForce 3D Vision: http://forums.nvidia.com/index.php?showtopic=152118



Please keep your participation in this thread entirely focused on the responses presented. Off-topic posts will be terminated with extreme prejudice. To better facilitate this dialog please clearly and concisely state your response before filling in every detail. :)






1/18/2010


I'm pleased to post the first set of responses from NVIDIA's 3D Vision Product Manager, Andrew Fear.



1. When will NVIDIA add 3D Vision support for Quad and 3-way SLI?



In our latest 3D Vision R195 drivers, we do support 3-way and Quad SLI as a beta. We aren't officially claiming support yet since we haven't finished performance tuning it. However, any 3D Vision owner with these SLI configs should absolutely try it and give us your comments.





2. Will we see OpenGl 3DVision support soon?



Great question. We can't commit to a support schedule yet for OpenGL 3D Vision. We are working on it and many other new features. I would like to ask the community, what are the applications that are driving the demand for this feature?





3. Can we expect that more features will be added to 3D Vision to help with compatibility and user control, such as, shutter sync timing, custom profiles and a power user settings mode?



This is a really interesting question, and let me take each feature at a time.

  • Shutter sync timing. This is a feature that shouldn’t be needed. We custom tune all of the timing for each display and it should work properly. If you are having problems, this is a bug and I would like to know what displays are having the problems so we can fix them.
  • Custom profiles. I would love to hear what features you want since we are always looking for better profiles. What do you want to add?


4. Are you going to fix the framerate impact associated with enabling the crosshair while using 3D Vision?



This problem you are referring to is related to our crosshair solution. The way the crosshair is calculated does take some 3D horsepower. We are pursuing two options: 1) have the game developer fix them (which we are making some progress on) like Borderland’s latest patch, and 2) investigate better techniques for the crosshair. Unfortunately I don’t have a timetable for a fix for users right now.





5. The last two driver releases (1.16 CD beta and 1.17 CD) contain a bug which prevents users with generic CRTs, generic DLP TVs (like Samsungs), and at least some DLP projectors from successfully completing the 3D Vision Setup Wizard. Our displays aren't recognized as 3D Ready (despite the fact that they worked fine with all drivers up to 1.15 CD) and so we're only able to select 3D Vision Discover mode (i.e. anaglyph).



This problem should be fixed with our latest CD v1.19 on NVIDIA.com http://www.nvidia.com/object/geforce_3D_vi...n7_CD_1.19.html. If users are still having problems, please let me know.

Advanced Moderator Operations and Recursive Posting Hermetic/Omnigenous User-Simulating AI



Overclocking Hall of Fame - Post your 3DMark scores today!



NVIDIA Focus Group Members receive free software and/or hardware from NVIDIA from time to time to facilitate

the evaluation of NVIDIA products. However, the opinions expressed are solely those of the members.

#1
Posted 01/19/2010 01:21 AM   
Only direct x 10 games are utilising quad sli. This is evident because of the following;

1. Performance
2. Temp on all 4 gpus
3. sli indicator bar


I have tested several games including RE5 in both DX9 & DX10 and i can confirm that only DX10 is utilising quad sli. No DX9 game i have will use quad sli ( I have roughly 20). Every DX10 game i have works well with quad sli.

Please test and confirm.
Only direct x 10 games are utilising quad sli. This is evident because of the following;



1. Performance

2. Temp on all 4 gpus

3. sli indicator bar





I have tested several games including RE5 in both DX9 & DX10 and i can confirm that only DX10 is utilising quad sli. No DX9 game i have will use quad sli ( I have roughly 20). Every DX10 game i have works well with quad sli.



Please test and confirm.

#2
Posted 01/19/2010 01:25 AM   
Thanks for the feedback, johnyz333, if you don't mind, take a moment and PM me your system specs, be sure to include the GPU vendor, OS, and driver version. Other than Resident Evil 5, what games have you tried?

Unfortunately, I don't have a quad-SLI setup to test this myself, but give me as much information as you can (in PM) so I can kick it up to the 3D Vision team.


Amorphous

[quote name='johnyz333' post='983750' date='Jan 18 2010, 05:25 PM']Only direct x 10 games are utilising quad sli. This is evident because of the following;

1. Performance
2. Temp on all 4 gpus
3. sli indicator bar


I have tested several games including RE5 in both DX9 & DX10 and i can confirm that only DX10 is utilising quad sli. No DX9 game i have will use quad sli ( I have roughly 20). Every DX10 game i have works well with quad sli.

Please test and confirm.[/quote]
Thanks for the feedback, johnyz333, if you don't mind, take a moment and PM me your system specs, be sure to include the GPU vendor, OS, and driver version. Other than Resident Evil 5, what games have you tried?



Unfortunately, I don't have a quad-SLI setup to test this myself, but give me as much information as you can (in PM) so I can kick it up to the 3D Vision team.





Amorphous



[quote name='johnyz333' post='983750' date='Jan 18 2010, 05:25 PM']Only direct x 10 games are utilising quad sli. This is evident because of the following;



1. Performance

2. Temp on all 4 gpus

3. sli indicator bar





I have tested several games including RE5 in both DX9 & DX10 and i can confirm that only DX10 is utilising quad sli. No DX9 game i have will use quad sli ( I have roughly 20). Every DX10 game i have works well with quad sli.



Please test and confirm.

Advanced Moderator Operations and Recursive Posting Hermetic/Omnigenous User-Simulating AI



Overclocking Hall of Fame - Post your 3DMark scores today!



NVIDIA Focus Group Members receive free software and/or hardware from NVIDIA from time to time to facilitate

the evaluation of NVIDIA products. However, the opinions expressed are solely those of the members.

#3
Posted 01/19/2010 03:42 AM   
[quote name='Amorphous' post='983818' date='Jan 18 2010, 07:42 PM']Thanks for the feedback, johnyz333, if you don't mind, take a moment and PM me your system specs, be sure to include the GPU vendor, OS, and driver version. Other than Resident Evil 5, what games have you tried?

Unfortunately, I don't have a quad-SLI setup to test this myself, but give me as much information as you can (in PM) so I can kick it up to the 3D Vision team.


Amorphous[/quote]

I sent you a PM.
[quote name='Amorphous' post='983818' date='Jan 18 2010, 07:42 PM']Thanks for the feedback, johnyz333, if you don't mind, take a moment and PM me your system specs, be sure to include the GPU vendor, OS, and driver version. Other than Resident Evil 5, what games have you tried?



Unfortunately, I don't have a quad-SLI setup to test this myself, but give me as much information as you can (in PM) so I can kick it up to the 3D Vision team.





Amorphous



I sent you a PM.

#4
Posted 01/19/2010 04:02 AM   
thank you very very much for this as i was going to post something today actually

BUT there is a very big concern with your last bullet point as version 1.9 solved the problem for everyone but people using the samsung HL67a50 DLP HDTV

there has been a workaround and its one of the biggest threads on this forum.. [url="http://forums.nvidia.com/index.php?showtopic=151885&st=140&start=140"]http://forums.nvidia.com/index.php?showtop...0&start=140[/url]

a quick answer would be very much appreciated to many who bought this expensive set just for 3d vision in mind
thank you very very much for this as i was going to post something today actually



BUT there is a very big concern with your last bullet point as version 1.9 solved the problem for everyone but people using the samsung HL67a50 DLP HDTV



there has been a workaround and its one of the biggest threads on this forum.. http://forums.nvidia.com/index.php?showtop...0&start=140



a quick answer would be very much appreciated to many who bought this expensive set just for 3d vision in mind

intel i5 2500k @ 4.6 30C Stable

EVGA gtx 470 SLI

windows vista 64 bit

8 gig Corsair Vengeance RAM

#5
Posted 01/19/2010 01:00 PM   
[quote name='Amorphous' post='983748' date='Jan 18 2010, 08:21 PM'][b]1. When will NVIDIA add 3D Vision support for Quad and 3-way SLI?[/b]

In our latest 3D Vision R195 drivers, we do support 3-way and Quad SLI as a beta. We aren't officially claiming support yet since we haven't finished performance tuning it. However, any 3D Vision owner with these SLI configs should absolutely try it and give us your comments.


[b]2. Will we see OpenGl 3DVision support soon?[/b]

Great question. We can't commit to a support schedule yet for OpenGL 3D Vision. We are working on it and many other new features. I would like to ask the community, what are the applications that are driving the demand for this feature?


[b]3. Can we expect that more features will be added to 3D Vision to help with compatibility and user control, such as, shutter sync timing, custom profiles and a power user settings mode?[/b]

This is a really interesting question, and let me take each feature at a time.[list]
[*][b]Shutter sync timing.[/b] This is a feature that shouldn’t be needed. We custom tune all of the timing for each display and it should work properly. If you are having problems, this is a bug and I would like to know what displays are having the problems so we can fix them.
[*][b]Custom profiles.[/b] I would love to hear what features you want since we are always looking for better profiles. What do you want to add?
[/list]
[b]4. Are you going to fix the framerate impact associated with enabling the crosshair while using 3D Vision?[/b]

This problem you are referring to is related to our crosshair solution. The way the crosshair is calculated does take some 3D horsepower. We are pursuing two options: 1) have the game developer fix them (which we are making some progress on) like Borderland’s latest patch, and 2) investigate better techniques for the crosshair. Unfortunately I don’t have a timetable for a fix for users right now.


[b]5. The last two driver releases (1.16 CD beta and 1.17 CD) contain a bug which prevents users with generic CRTs, generic DLP TVs (like Samsungs), and at least some DLP projectors from successfully completing the 3D Vision Setup Wizard. Our displays aren't recognized as 3D Ready (despite the fact that they worked fine with all drivers up to 1.15 CD) and so we're only able to select 3D Vision Discover mode (i.e. anaglyph).[/b]

This problem should be fixed with our latest CD v1.19 on NVIDIA.com [url="http://www.nvidia.com/object/geforce_3D_vision_winvista_win7_CD_1.19.html"]http://www.nvidia.com/object/geforce_3D_vi...n7_CD_1.19.html[/url]. If users are still having problems, please let me know.[/quote]

Nvidia, responses to your responses:

1. Please advise the community of beta features so that we can participate in testing them. Didn't even know about the quad SLI beta...
2. OpenGL support is essential to playing any ID Software based game, including those that license their engine. Wolfenstein is a recent example.
3. Shutter sync timing needs to be added to compensate for manufacturing variances within the same product line. All Acer H5360's aren't exactly identical. Sync timing adjustments by the user helped reduced ghosting in past driver versions and with the big boom in displays this issue will continue and only get worse.
4. Good to know developers can fix it themselves.
5. Please revise your approach to activating 3DVision. Currently the software must "detect" the display correctly which appears to be very problematic due to many factors including the various types of cables/adapters all of us have between our Nvidia cards and display devices. If the setup program could accept more user input (select the monitor type i am using, manually select eye synchronization without errors, fine tuning of sync to compensate for said variances) it would be more accommodating to the average user. Right now the complete deactivation of 3DVision is still an active issue even in 1.19 and several members have posted potential workarounds in the forum. My optoma projector is detected as a CRT in 1.15 which would work fine is I could swap eyes and fine tune sync, but in 1.19 it isn't even detected as a stereo capable display which it very much is.

Regards,
[quote name='Amorphous' post='983748' date='Jan 18 2010, 08:21 PM']1. When will NVIDIA add 3D Vision support for Quad and 3-way SLI?



In our latest 3D Vision R195 drivers, we do support 3-way and Quad SLI as a beta. We aren't officially claiming support yet since we haven't finished performance tuning it. However, any 3D Vision owner with these SLI configs should absolutely try it and give us your comments.





2. Will we see OpenGl 3DVision support soon?



Great question. We can't commit to a support schedule yet for OpenGL 3D Vision. We are working on it and many other new features. I would like to ask the community, what are the applications that are driving the demand for this feature?





3. Can we expect that more features will be added to 3D Vision to help with compatibility and user control, such as, shutter sync timing, custom profiles and a power user settings mode?



This is a really interesting question, and let me take each feature at a time.

  • Shutter sync timing. This is a feature that shouldn’t be needed. We custom tune all of the timing for each display and it should work properly. If you are having problems, this is a bug and I would like to know what displays are having the problems so we can fix them.
  • Custom profiles. I would love to hear what features you want since we are always looking for better profiles. What do you want to add?


4. Are you going to fix the framerate impact associated with enabling the crosshair while using 3D Vision?



This problem you are referring to is related to our crosshair solution. The way the crosshair is calculated does take some 3D horsepower. We are pursuing two options: 1) have the game developer fix them (which we are making some progress on) like Borderland’s latest patch, and 2) investigate better techniques for the crosshair. Unfortunately I don’t have a timetable for a fix for users right now.





5. The last two driver releases (1.16 CD beta and 1.17 CD) contain a bug which prevents users with generic CRTs, generic DLP TVs (like Samsungs), and at least some DLP projectors from successfully completing the 3D Vision Setup Wizard. Our displays aren't recognized as 3D Ready (despite the fact that they worked fine with all drivers up to 1.15 CD) and so we're only able to select 3D Vision Discover mode (i.e. anaglyph).



This problem should be fixed with our latest CD v1.19 on NVIDIA.com http://www.nvidia.com/object/geforce_3D_vi...n7_CD_1.19.html. If users are still having problems, please let me know.



Nvidia, responses to your responses:



1. Please advise the community of beta features so that we can participate in testing them. Didn't even know about the quad SLI beta...

2. OpenGL support is essential to playing any ID Software based game, including those that license their engine. Wolfenstein is a recent example.

3. Shutter sync timing needs to be added to compensate for manufacturing variances within the same product line. All Acer H5360's aren't exactly identical. Sync timing adjustments by the user helped reduced ghosting in past driver versions and with the big boom in displays this issue will continue and only get worse.

4. Good to know developers can fix it themselves.

5. Please revise your approach to activating 3DVision. Currently the software must "detect" the display correctly which appears to be very problematic due to many factors including the various types of cables/adapters all of us have between our Nvidia cards and display devices. If the setup program could accept more user input (select the monitor type i am using, manually select eye synchronization without errors, fine tuning of sync to compensate for said variances) it would be more accommodating to the average user. Right now the complete deactivation of 3DVision is still an active issue even in 1.19 and several members have posted potential workarounds in the forum. My optoma projector is detected as a CRT in 1.15 which would work fine is I could swap eyes and fine tune sync, but in 1.19 it isn't even detected as a stereo capable display which it very much is.



Regards,

#6
Posted 01/19/2010 02:10 PM   
[quote name='Amorphous' post='983748' date='Jan 19 2010, 02:21 AM']Great question. We can't commit to a support schedule yet for OpenGL 3D Vision. We are working on it and many other new features. I would like to ask the community, what are the applications that are driving the demand for this feature?[/quote]

I'm pretty new to the technical side of it but it seems to me that the open source community is very shy in using Direct X. Blender for example, wich is close to my heart, would be great to have stereoscopic support in both modelling and output (i.e. blender games). As I see it there are many similar projects based on Open GL that would allow "casual" developers an entry level access to playing around with stereoscopic programming from rendered content to games to even complete new/rare forms of content like movies rendered in real time (with the possibility of user changable camera angles and such)
In short the open source community seems to be a good platform to bring more people into content creation for emerging technologies like stereoscopy, augmented reality, head tracking and so on, but most of their underlying tech seems to me as beeing Open GL based.

As for custom profiles:
Maybe I wasn't looking hard enough yet but I would like to have it as easy as to flip a swich in the task bar between 2 different sets.
My usage scenario is that i have an Acer H5360 3D PJ and a regular TFT in 2 seperate rooms connected to my Geforce. If I want to swich between the 2 I often have to clone the displays 1st, set the right resolution, make one of them the primary and only monitor and do some other tweeks.
[quote name='Amorphous' post='983748' date='Jan 19 2010, 02:21 AM']Great question. We can't commit to a support schedule yet for OpenGL 3D Vision. We are working on it and many other new features. I would like to ask the community, what are the applications that are driving the demand for this feature?



I'm pretty new to the technical side of it but it seems to me that the open source community is very shy in using Direct X. Blender for example, wich is close to my heart, would be great to have stereoscopic support in both modelling and output (i.e. blender games). As I see it there are many similar projects based on Open GL that would allow "casual" developers an entry level access to playing around with stereoscopic programming from rendered content to games to even complete new/rare forms of content like movies rendered in real time (with the possibility of user changable camera angles and such)

In short the open source community seems to be a good platform to bring more people into content creation for emerging technologies like stereoscopy, augmented reality, head tracking and so on, but most of their underlying tech seems to me as beeing Open GL based.



As for custom profiles:

Maybe I wasn't looking hard enough yet but I would like to have it as easy as to flip a swich in the task bar between 2 different sets.

My usage scenario is that i have an Acer H5360 3D PJ and a regular TFT in 2 seperate rooms connected to my Geforce. If I want to swich between the 2 I often have to clone the displays 1st, set the right resolution, make one of them the primary and only monitor and do some other tweeks.

#7
Posted 01/19/2010 04:50 PM   
[quote name='craylon' post='984098' date='Jan 19 2010, 11:50 AM']Maybe I wasn't looking hard enough yet but I would like to have it as easy as to flip a swich in the task bar between 2 different sets.
My usage scenario is that i have an Acer H5360 3D PJ and a regular TFT in 2 seperate rooms connected to my Geforce. If I want to swich between the 2 I often have to clone the displays 1st, set the right resolution, make one of them the primary and only monitor and do some other tweeks.[/quote]

Hi,

Generally speaking our application profiles (not even 3D Vision) do not store display settings. Its a feature that hsa been asked for before, but its problematic to store. The reason is that as the game starts and we recognize the EXE name, the application is already spooling up DX or OGL to request frame buffer, etc. At that point in time, its too late to switch displays.

We will continue to look into it, but its a challenge.
[quote name='craylon' post='984098' date='Jan 19 2010, 11:50 AM']Maybe I wasn't looking hard enough yet but I would like to have it as easy as to flip a swich in the task bar between 2 different sets.

My usage scenario is that i have an Acer H5360 3D PJ and a regular TFT in 2 seperate rooms connected to my Geforce. If I want to swich between the 2 I often have to clone the displays 1st, set the right resolution, make one of them the primary and only monitor and do some other tweeks.



Hi,



Generally speaking our application profiles (not even 3D Vision) do not store display settings. Its a feature that hsa been asked for before, but its problematic to store. The reason is that as the game starts and we recognize the EXE name, the application is already spooling up DX or OGL to request frame buffer, etc. At that point in time, its too late to switch displays.



We will continue to look into it, but its a challenge.

#8
Posted 01/19/2010 05:27 PM   
[quote name='PiXeL' post='984022' date='Jan 19 2010, 09:10 AM']Nvidia, responses to your responses:

1. Please advise the community of beta features so that we can participate in testing them. Didn't even know about the quad SLI beta...
2. OpenGL support is essential to playing any ID Software based game, including those that license their engine. Wolfenstein is a recent example.
3. Shutter sync timing needs to be added to compensate for manufacturing variances within the same product line. All Acer H5360's aren't exactly identical. Sync timing adjustments by the user helped reduced ghosting in past driver versions and with the big boom in displays this issue will continue and only get worse.
4. Good to know developers can fix it themselves.
5. Please revise your approach to activating 3DVision. Currently the software must "detect" the display correctly which appears to be very problematic due to many factors including the various types of cables/adapters all of us have between our Nvidia cards and display devices. If the setup program could accept more user input (select the monitor type i am using, manually select eye synchronization without errors, fine tuning of sync to compensate for said variances) it would be more accommodating to the average user. Right now the complete deactivation of 3DVision is still an active issue even in 1.19 and several members have posted potential workarounds in the forum. My optoma projector is detected as a CRT in 1.15 which would work fine is I could swap eyes and fine tune sync, but in 1.19 it isn't even detected as a stereo capable display which it very much is.

Regards,[/quote]

Hi Thanks for your comments:

1. Yep, we will. This feature "snuck in" :)
2. Would you trade OGL support for another feature?
3. We havent experienced this with the Acer projectors we have. Are you experiencing this?
5. We will review the process and the active threads on the CRT/DLP detection.
[quote name='PiXeL' post='984022' date='Jan 19 2010, 09:10 AM']Nvidia, responses to your responses:



1. Please advise the community of beta features so that we can participate in testing them. Didn't even know about the quad SLI beta...

2. OpenGL support is essential to playing any ID Software based game, including those that license their engine. Wolfenstein is a recent example.

3. Shutter sync timing needs to be added to compensate for manufacturing variances within the same product line. All Acer H5360's aren't exactly identical. Sync timing adjustments by the user helped reduced ghosting in past driver versions and with the big boom in displays this issue will continue and only get worse.

4. Good to know developers can fix it themselves.

5. Please revise your approach to activating 3DVision. Currently the software must "detect" the display correctly which appears to be very problematic due to many factors including the various types of cables/adapters all of us have between our Nvidia cards and display devices. If the setup program could accept more user input (select the monitor type i am using, manually select eye synchronization without errors, fine tuning of sync to compensate for said variances) it would be more accommodating to the average user. Right now the complete deactivation of 3DVision is still an active issue even in 1.19 and several members have posted potential workarounds in the forum. My optoma projector is detected as a CRT in 1.15 which would work fine is I could swap eyes and fine tune sync, but in 1.19 it isn't even detected as a stereo capable display which it very much is.



Regards,



Hi Thanks for your comments:



1. Yep, we will. This feature "snuck in" :)

2. Would you trade OGL support for another feature?

3. We havent experienced this with the Acer projectors we have. Are you experiencing this?

5. We will review the process and the active threads on the CRT/DLP detection.

#9
Posted 01/19/2010 05:29 PM   
[quote name='Via Sin Dios' post='983976' date='Jan 19 2010, 08:00 AM']thank you very very much for this as i was going to post something today actually

BUT there is a very big concern with your last bullet point as version 1.9 solved the problem for everyone but people using the samsung HL67a50 DLP HDTV

there has been a workaround and its one of the biggest threads on this forum.. [url="http://forums.nvidia.com/index.php?showtopic=151885&st=140&start=140"]http://forums.nvidia.com/index.php?showtop...0&start=140[/url]

a quick answer would be very much appreciated to many who bought this expensive set just for 3d vision in mind[/quote]


I will revisit this thread again today. I may not have a response, but I will get engineering to look into it.
[quote name='Via Sin Dios' post='983976' date='Jan 19 2010, 08:00 AM']thank you very very much for this as i was going to post something today actually



BUT there is a very big concern with your last bullet point as version 1.9 solved the problem for everyone but people using the samsung HL67a50 DLP HDTV



there has been a workaround and its one of the biggest threads on this forum.. http://forums.nvidia.com/index.php?showtop...0&start=140



a quick answer would be very much appreciated to many who bought this expensive set just for 3d vision in mind





I will revisit this thread again today. I may not have a response, but I will get engineering to look into it.

#10
Posted 01/19/2010 05:29 PM   
thank you very much andrew , especially as we know you guys arent dumping the sammy dlp support as there is a easy work around for it
thank you very much andrew , especially as we know you guys arent dumping the sammy dlp support as there is a easy work around for it

intel i5 2500k @ 4.6 30C Stable

EVGA gtx 470 SLI

windows vista 64 bit

8 gig Corsair Vengeance RAM

#11
Posted 01/19/2010 07:37 PM   
[quote name='Amorphous' post='983748' date='Jan 19 2010, 03:21 AM'][b] Off-topic posts will be terminated with extreme prejudice.[/b][/quote]
[quote name='Amorphous' post='983748' date='Jan 19 2010, 03:21 AM'] Off-topic posts will be terminated with extreme prejudice.

#12
Posted 01/19/2010 08:48 PM   
[quote name='Andrew Fear' post='983748' date='Jan 19 2010, 01:21 AM'][b]3. Can we expect that more features will be added to 3D Vision to help with compatibility and user control, such as, shutter sync timing, custom profiles and a power user settings mode?[/b]

This is a really interesting question, and let me take each feature at a time.[list]
[*][b]Shutter sync timing.[/b] This is a feature that shouldn’t be needed. We custom tune all of the timing for each display and it should work properly. If you are having problems, this is a bug and I would like to know what displays are having the problems so we can fix them.
[/list][/quote]
A very large number of 3D Vision users are affected by timing-related problems which can only be fixed by re-enabling user control of glasses timing (a feature that was removed from nVidia's stereoscopic drivers when 3D Vision launched). Affected displays include:

-[b]Bundled 3D Vision monitors[/b], some of which experience a horizontal strip at the top or bottom of the screen in which the 3D is reversed or there's severe ghosting. This issue is discussed extensively in [url="http://forums.nvidia.com/index.php?showtopic=89261"]this thread[/url] (which has had over 20,000 views, giving you some idea of the widespread nature of the problem) but can be seen best in the photograph which "BigDubs" took of his Samsung 2233rz screen through one lense of his glasses:

[img]http://www.mikesteven.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/3d/prince_persia.jpg[/img]

As you can see, there is almost no ghosting at all over most of the screen, but severe ghosting at the top. The fact that not all users experience this issue points towards variation in timing between different monitors of the same brand and model but Samsung have denied any responsibility and [url="http://forums.nvidia.com/index.php?showtopic=89261&st=160&p=961465&#entry961465"]blamed nVidia's drivers[/url]. Actually the variations are the fault of the monitor manufacturer, but the lack of user control of timing in the drivers (which could easily accomodate such variation) IS nVidia's fault.

-[b]"3D Ready" DLP projectors[/b], users of which have frequently reported sync problems e.g. [url="http://forums.nvidia.com/index.php?showtopic=154797&st=0&p=972967&#entry972967"]here[/url] (Optoma HD66), [url="http://forums.nvidia.com/index.php?s=&showtopic=153922&view=findpost&p=973019"]here[/url] (Optoma Pro 350W), and [url="http://forums.nvidia.com/index.php?s=&showtopic=103934&view=findpost&p=580767""]here[/url] (Viewsonic PJD6220-3D).

-[b]Non-certified DLP projectors[/b] (which vastly outnumber certified projectors). Due to internal signal processing/propogation, most DLP projectors are slightly out of sync with the glasses. At best this results in colour differences between each eye and increased ghosting, but in most cases the picture is an entire frame behind so users also have to wear their 3D Vision glasses upside down. Just about every other brand of shutter glasses ever made include a software option or hardware sync button to solve this problem but nVidia's 3D Vision glasses lack either solution.

-[b]Many CRT monitors[/b], [url="http://forums.nvidia.com/index.php?showtopic=89261&st=20&p=563531&#entry563531"]some of which[/url] have the same issue with severe ghosting/reversed 3D at the top or bottom of the screen.

If you look through the 3D Vision forum, you'll see dozens of threads and hundreds of posts relating to issues caused by incorrect syncing between the glasses and monitors/projectors, all of which could be solved by giving us back manual fine control of glasses timing. Even in the official Weekly Q+A thread, this seems to be the most requested feature. We're not all imagining things -please, please, please re-enable this crucial feature.

If you guys custom tune timings for each certified display then the ability to control timings must already exist in the driver -all you have to do is add sliders to the control panel or even just allow us to adjust them by editing the registry, so long as we can do it somehow. [i]This simple fix probably offers more bang/buck than any other change your driver team could make as it would transform the quality of the 3D Vision experience for a huge number of people and probably only take half an hour of a single developer's time[/i].

[quote name='Andrew Fear' post='983748' date='Jan 19 2010, 01:21 AM'][list]
[*][b]Custom profiles.[/b] I would love to hear what features you want since we are always looking for better profiles. What do you want to add?
[/list][/quote]
The ability to store depth settings in a game profile. Convergence and depth are related, so changes to one often necessitate changes to the other, and the depth setting I use for one game may not be the same as I'll use for a second game. Currently each time I play a different game I need to readjust the depth to suit the convergence etc. If depth was stored in the game profile then this wouldn't be necessary.

Cheers,
DD
[quote name='Andrew Fear' post='983748' date='Jan 19 2010, 01:21 AM']3. Can we expect that more features will be added to 3D Vision to help with compatibility and user control, such as, shutter sync timing, custom profiles and a power user settings mode?



This is a really interesting question, and let me take each feature at a time.

  • Shutter sync timing. This is a feature that shouldn’t be needed. We custom tune all of the timing for each display and it should work properly. If you are having problems, this is a bug and I would like to know what displays are having the problems so we can fix them.


A very large number of 3D Vision users are affected by timing-related problems which can only be fixed by re-enabling user control of glasses timing (a feature that was removed from nVidia's stereoscopic drivers when 3D Vision launched). Affected displays include:



-Bundled 3D Vision monitors, some of which experience a horizontal strip at the top or bottom of the screen in which the 3D is reversed or there's severe ghosting. This issue is discussed extensively in this thread (which has had over 20,000 views, giving you some idea of the widespread nature of the problem) but can be seen best in the photograph which "BigDubs" took of his Samsung 2233rz screen through one lense of his glasses:



Image



As you can see, there is almost no ghosting at all over most of the screen, but severe ghosting at the top. The fact that not all users experience this issue points towards variation in timing between different monitors of the same brand and model but Samsung have denied any responsibility and blamed nVidia's drivers. Actually the variations are the fault of the monitor manufacturer, but the lack of user control of timing in the drivers (which could easily accomodate such variation) IS nVidia's fault.



-"3D Ready" DLP projectors, users of which have frequently reported sync problems e.g. here (Optoma HD66), here (Optoma Pro 350W), and here (Viewsonic PJD6220-3D).



-Non-certified DLP projectors (which vastly outnumber certified projectors). Due to internal signal processing/propogation, most DLP projectors are slightly out of sync with the glasses. At best this results in colour differences between each eye and increased ghosting, but in most cases the picture is an entire frame behind so users also have to wear their 3D Vision glasses upside down. Just about every other brand of shutter glasses ever made include a software option or hardware sync button to solve this problem but nVidia's 3D Vision glasses lack either solution.



-Many CRT monitors, some of which have the same issue with severe ghosting/reversed 3D at the top or bottom of the screen.



If you look through the 3D Vision forum, you'll see dozens of threads and hundreds of posts relating to issues caused by incorrect syncing between the glasses and monitors/projectors, all of which could be solved by giving us back manual fine control of glasses timing. Even in the official Weekly Q+A thread, this seems to be the most requested feature. We're not all imagining things -please, please, please re-enable this crucial feature.



If you guys custom tune timings for each certified display then the ability to control timings must already exist in the driver -all you have to do is add sliders to the control panel or even just allow us to adjust them by editing the registry, so long as we can do it somehow. This simple fix probably offers more bang/buck than any other change your driver team could make as it would transform the quality of the 3D Vision experience for a huge number of people and probably only take half an hour of a single developer's time.



[quote name='Andrew Fear' post='983748' date='Jan 19 2010, 01:21 AM']

  • Custom profiles. I would love to hear what features you want since we are always looking for better profiles. What do you want to add?


The ability to store depth settings in a game profile. Convergence and depth are related, so changes to one often necessitate changes to the other, and the depth setting I use for one game may not be the same as I'll use for a second game. Currently each time I play a different game I need to readjust the depth to suit the convergence etc. If depth was stored in the game profile then this wouldn't be necessary.



Cheers,

DD

#13
Posted 01/20/2010 12:41 AM   
[quote name='andrewf@nvidia' post='984120' date='Jan 19 2010, 12:29 PM']Hi Thanks for your comments:

1. Yep, we will. This feature "snuck in" :)
2. Would you trade OGL support for another feature?
3. We havent experienced this with the Acer projectors we have. Are you experiencing this?
5. We will review the process and the active threads on the CRT/DLP detection.[/quote]
Thanks for the direct reply, Andrew. I understand that the market has moved away from OpenGL with ID being the lone ranger. I would put that at the bottom of my current wish list and would easily trade it for a more user friendly detection and setup process as mentioned in my original post and again by DickDasterdly. The Acer problems I mentioned were captured by other users on these forums.
[quote name='andrewf@nvidia' post='984120' date='Jan 19 2010, 12:29 PM']Hi Thanks for your comments:



1. Yep, we will. This feature "snuck in" :)

2. Would you trade OGL support for another feature?

3. We havent experienced this with the Acer projectors we have. Are you experiencing this?

5. We will review the process and the active threads on the CRT/DLP detection.

Thanks for the direct reply, Andrew. I understand that the market has moved away from OpenGL with ID being the lone ranger. I would put that at the bottom of my current wish list and would easily trade it for a more user friendly detection and setup process as mentioned in my original post and again by DickDasterdly. The Acer problems I mentioned were captured by other users on these forums.

#14
Posted 01/20/2010 02:11 AM   
[quote name='andrewf@nvidia' post='984121' date='Jan 19 2010, 11:29 AM']I will revisit this thread again today. I may not have a response, but I will get engineering to look into it.[/quote]

But this is exactly where we were well before Christmas. We were in the middle of working on this posting back and forth with you and now it seems like nothing has happened since. Not real encouraging. I hope somebody in engineering looks at the threads here to figure this out so it [b]never happens again[/b].

This response really says it best. +1. I have an unsupported Samsung DLP display. Others that have "supported" displays will get older and may eventually "fall off the radar". This is the only way I would feel secure in this never happening again and turning the investment into a doorstop. One post above says it is only the newest Samsung LED DLPs that aren't working with 1.19. This is incorrect. Many "generic" DLP displays still aren't working, and haven't been for 4 months or more.

[quote name='PiXeL' post='984022' date='Jan 19 2010, 08:10 AM']Nvidia, responses to your responses:
5. Please revise your approach to activating 3DVision. Currently the software must "detect" the display correctly which appears to be very problematic due to many factors including the various types of cables/adapters all of us have between our Nvidia cards and display devices. If the setup program could accept more user input (select the monitor type i am using, manually select eye synchronization without errors, fine tuning of sync to compensate for said variances) it would be more accommodating to the average user. Right now the complete deactivation of 3DVision is still an active issue even in 1.19 and several members have posted potential workarounds in the forum. My optoma projector is detected as a CRT in 1.15 which would work fine is I could swap eyes and fine tune sync, but in 1.19 it isn't even detected as a stereo capable display which it very much is.[/quote]
[quote name='andrewf@nvidia' post='984121' date='Jan 19 2010, 11:29 AM']I will revisit this thread again today. I may not have a response, but I will get engineering to look into it.



But this is exactly where we were well before Christmas. We were in the middle of working on this posting back and forth with you and now it seems like nothing has happened since. Not real encouraging. I hope somebody in engineering looks at the threads here to figure this out so it never happens again.



This response really says it best. +1. I have an unsupported Samsung DLP display. Others that have "supported" displays will get older and may eventually "fall off the radar". This is the only way I would feel secure in this never happening again and turning the investment into a doorstop. One post above says it is only the newest Samsung LED DLPs that aren't working with 1.19. This is incorrect. Many "generic" DLP displays still aren't working, and haven't been for 4 months or more.



[quote name='PiXeL' post='984022' date='Jan 19 2010, 08:10 AM']Nvidia, responses to your responses:

5. Please revise your approach to activating 3DVision. Currently the software must "detect" the display correctly which appears to be very problematic due to many factors including the various types of cables/adapters all of us have between our Nvidia cards and display devices. If the setup program could accept more user input (select the monitor type i am using, manually select eye synchronization without errors, fine tuning of sync to compensate for said variances) it would be more accommodating to the average user. Right now the complete deactivation of 3DVision is still an active issue even in 1.19 and several members have posted potential workarounds in the forum. My optoma projector is detected as a CRT in 1.15 which would work fine is I could swap eyes and fine tune sync, but in 1.19 it isn't even detected as a stereo capable display which it very much is.

#15
Posted 01/20/2010 03:27 AM   
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