3D Vision Weekly Questions Bugs, Questions & More
  1 / 16    
*************

[b]Looks like it ended before it ever began. The weekly Q & A has not had even its first round of talks for 6 months and was told time can not be spent. Thanks for everyone that participated in this discussion. It was fun and hopeful while it lasted![/b]

*************

[b]* Since launch users have had ghost issues on LCD's/DLP's/CRT's/Projectors will this ever be addressed? Or is it a hardware limitation? Can we have a technical explanation?[/b]
[b][u]HIGH LEVEL[/u][/b] - Posted 12/08/09

[b]* Since launch projector users have had major ghost issues because of no solution for frame delay[/b]
[b][u]HIGH LEVEL[/u][/b] - Posted 11/30/09

[b]* Since launch the 3D cursor has been erratic and hits the FPS on multiple games[/b]
[b][u]HIGH LEVEL[/u][/b] - Posted 11/30/09

[b]* Will openGL ever have support in the future? If so do you have an ETA?[/b]
[b][u]MEDIUM LEVEL[/u][/b] - Posted 12/01/09

[b]* 3D Profiles are not being saved nor with advance feature settings[/b]
[b][u]MEDIUM LEVEL[/u][/b] - Posted 11/30/09

.:.:.:.:.:.:

[b]Closed Issues:[/b]

[size=1][b]* Since July 16th model HL-T6187SAX and other 3D DLPs has crashed (cant even start the wizard) every setup wizard after driver V1.09 and up. Have not been able to use 3D product as some code broke permission to use the product period. Product support ended for users driver V1.10 till today![/b]
[b][u]HIGH LEVEL[/u][/b] - Posted 11/30/09 ** Update 12/20/09 This has been addressed in 1.19 but not fixed 100%, will remain until the bug is gone.
[code]StereoCPLAPI returned invalid video mode (1920x2160) from StereoLauncher-> getDefaultModeInfo[/code][/size]

[size=1][b]* Samsung DLP & CRT users not being able to have their DLP detected at the end of the setup wizard since driver V1.16 and up[/b]
[b][u]HIGH LEVEL[/u][/b] - Posted 11/30/09 - ** Update 12/20/09 This has been addressed in 1.19 but not fixed 100%, will remain until the bug is gone.[/size]

***********************
Please post your issues and major concerns and the first post (this one) will be edited and high-lighted with what needs to be addressed and what was addressed. Also understand that we can only post 5 - 10 issues or concerns at once. Please PM if you feel that something is not getting any priority.

** Keep this thread clean and respectful do I even need to explain further? Have respect for other users and Nvidia employees ...
*** Andrew has confirmed before hand that he will not be able to address this thread every week keep this in mind...

Sincerely,

The whole 3D forum
*************



Looks like it ended before it ever began. The weekly Q & A has not had even its first round of talks for 6 months and was told time can not be spent. Thanks for everyone that participated in this discussion. It was fun and hopeful while it lasted!



*************



* Since launch users have had ghost issues on LCD's/DLP's/CRT's/Projectors will this ever be addressed? Or is it a hardware limitation? Can we have a technical explanation?

HIGH LEVEL - Posted 12/08/09



* Since launch projector users have had major ghost issues because of no solution for frame delay

HIGH LEVEL - Posted 11/30/09



* Since launch the 3D cursor has been erratic and hits the FPS on multiple games

HIGH LEVEL - Posted 11/30/09



* Will openGL ever have support in the future? If so do you have an ETA?

MEDIUM LEVEL - Posted 12/01/09



* 3D Profiles are not being saved nor with advance feature settings

MEDIUM LEVEL - Posted 11/30/09



.:.:.:.:.:.:



Closed Issues:



* Since July 16th model HL-T6187SAX and other 3D DLPs has crashed (cant even start the wizard) every setup wizard after driver V1.09 and up. Have not been able to use 3D product as some code broke permission to use the product period. Product support ended for users driver V1.10 till today!

HIGH LEVEL - Posted 11/30/09 ** Update 12/20/09 This has been addressed in 1.19 but not fixed 100%, will remain until the bug is gone.

StereoCPLAPI returned invalid video mode (1920x2160) from StereoLauncher-> getDefaultModeInfo




* Samsung DLP & CRT users not being able to have their DLP detected at the end of the setup wizard since driver V1.16 and up

HIGH LEVEL - Posted 11/30/09 - ** Update 12/20/09 This has been addressed in 1.19 but not fixed 100%, will remain until the bug is gone.



***********************

Please post your issues and major concerns and the first post (this one) will be edited and high-lighted with what needs to be addressed and what was addressed. Also understand that we can only post 5 - 10 issues or concerns at once. Please PM if you feel that something is not getting any priority.



** Keep this thread clean and respectful do I even need to explain further? Have respect for other users and Nvidia employees ...

*** Andrew has confirmed before hand that he will not be able to address this thread every week keep this in mind...



Sincerely,



The whole 3D forum

#1
Posted 12/01/2009 12:51 AM   
I posted these in the other thread too, but here they are again:

[quote name='andrewf@nvidia' post='957659' date='Nov 30 2009, 03:31 PM']But I want to propose a solution. I would like you guys to help me find out what are your tops issues are every week. I want ChrisRay and Amorphous to help get me the top 5-10 questions, and each week we can post the Q&A directly to you. That way, our forums mods can help stay on top of these issues with me and get my attention when its needed.

What do you say guys?[/quote]
Well this is certainly a really promising development. My top ten questions to start the ball rolling (all of which have been asked numerous times in this forum by many users) are as follows:

1. The last two driver releases (1.16 CD beta and 1.17 CD) contain [b]a bug which prevents users with generic CRTs, generic DLP TVs (like Samsungs), and at least some DLP projectors from successfully completing the 3D Vision Setup Wizard[/b]. Our displays aren't recognized as 3D Ready (despite the fact that they worked fine with all drivers up to 1.15 CD) and so we're only able to select 3D Vision Discover mode (i.e. anaglyph). When will this be fixed, and will future driver releases be tested with all these displays prior to release so this problem never arises again?

2. When will [b]OpenGL support[/b] for Geforce cards be re-enabled? (The old nVidia sterescopic drivers had this feature prior to the launch of 3D Vision and its continued absence is a [i]very[/i] big deal -many major games use OpenGL, like all id Software products (and dozens of games which use their engines), the IL2 Sturmovik series, X-Plane etc etc).

3. Like [url="http://forums.nvidia.com/index.php?s=&showtopic=100635&view=findpost&p=562777"]most other projector users[/url], I have to wear my nVidia glasses upside down to compensate for the one frame delay, as the nVidia kit lacks any hardware or [b]software sync adjustment[/b]. I also suffer far worse timing-related ghosting with my nVidia glasses than my old E-Dimensionals (which were a quarter of the price). As a result, the only time my nVidia glasses are ever taken out of their bag is when I've friends round playing multiplayer games, the rest of the time I'm forced to use the old E-Dims. This is really, really annoying -I'd much rather use my expensive newer glasses (which, to nVidia's credit) are well built and have an excellent emitter, unfortunately they're crippled by the lack of a sync adjustment option in the drivers.

The problem isn't confined to projector users, as it also affects owners of the bundled monitors and CRTs, [url="http://forums.nvidia.com/index.php?showtopic=89261"]many of whom[/url] also suffer from image reversal/ghosting (in a limited part of the screen) caused by incorrectly synced timing. (The latter issue is evident on both Geforce and [url="http://forums.nvidia.com/index.php?showtopic=91072"]Quadro[/url] cards). The really frustrating thing is that the old nVidia 3D drivers had the ability to fix this problem with the [b]GlassesDelayMinus[/b], [b]GlassesDelayPlus[/b] and [b]GlassesSwitchDelay[/b] registry settings so presumably it would be very straightforward to re-enable them. When can we expect to see this crucial feature return to the 3D Vision drivers?

4. The [b]on-screen display[/b] feature of the 3D Vision drivers was a great start but unfortunately it hasn't seen any improvements since launch. Can it be expanded to include settings like convergence, frustrum adjustment, near plane, far plane etc?

5. The old nVidia stereoscopic drivers had a [b]gamma adjustment feature[/b] which was very useful as it allowed users to set gamma adjustment (and store it in the 3D profile for each game) to compensate for the fact that shutter glasses reduce brightness by almost 50%. In the 3D Vision drivers this feature was removed so now players have to use the game's own gamma adjustment facility (if it even has one) to compensate. Of course this means that if you then play the game in 2D everything is now too bright. Will this handy feature be re-enabled in the 3D Vision drivers?

6. nVidia's efforts with regard to [b]developer relations[/b] and 3D don't seem to have been very fruitful - almost a year after the launch of 3D Vision (and the best part of a decade since nVidia first released stereoscopic drivers) we've seen only two or three games which were specifically designed to work well with 3D Vision. 3D profiles continue to lag behind game releases (sometimes by months) when they should be available prior to the launch of a game (and its demo) so that users can play in 3D immediately (after all, most of a game's sales tend to be made in the first couple of weeks after launch and that is when people want to be able to play).

The number of existing games which have been patched to accommodate the demands of 3D is also tiny and new games continue to exhibit the same old problems again and again. Left 4 Dead 2, for example, has all the same [url="http://www.mtbs3d.com/phpBB/viewtopic.php?p=31891#p31891"]3D anomalies as its predecessor[/url], including my personal pet hates, [url="http://forums.nvidia.com/index.php?s=&showtopic=151828&view=findpost&p=956434"]screen depth player names[/url] and incorrect depth of "[url="http://developer.valvesoftware.com/wiki/3D_Skybox%5d3D%20skybox"]3D skybox[/url]" objects, and both of these issues crop up in dozens of other games too (particularly those of Valve whose products alone make up something like 85% of the online PC action market).

When will we see nVidia take bigger steps to improve this situation? According to the Steam survey, over 60% of gamers have nVidia cards so you guys have [i]massive[/i] influence with developers (none of whom would want to write off over half of their customers) but there seems to have been an almost total failure to capitalize on this. Given the failings of the current approach, why not increase pressure on developers by dropping [i]all[/i] support and cross promotion for those who refuse to sign up to follow 3D Vision compatability guidelines for future games (and those who fail to update major existing games to work well in 3D)? In other words, whenever any developer contacts nVidia for help with [i]any issue whatsoever[/i] (even if completely unrelated to 3D) the first response should be to tell them that nVidia is unable to provide any assistance until they've signed a pledge that their games will follow all 3D Vision compatability guidelines.

7. Since the launch of the original stereoscopic drivers, the [b]3D laser sight[/b] has always been somewhat erratic. In some games enabling it triggers massive frame rate loss, in others its movement in the Z dimension occurs in large jumps rather than smoothly, and in some games it doesn't even work at all. Will nVidia have a serious look at the underlying code and resolve these problems?

8. Settings for convergence and depth are related - adjusting one often necessitates a change in the other, yet [b]when we save a 3D Vision profile the depth isn't stored[/b]. This means that if you adjust settings for one game, save the profile and then play a second game which requires different depth settings, you'll have to readjust the depth if you return to the first game. Can the code for saving profiles with CTRL+F7 be adjusted so that it also saves depth?

9. Previously there was a setting in the drivers for [b]screen size[/b]. This was useful as display size has a major effect on perceived depth so a profile that's been designed to work well on a tiny 22" screen won't look right on a 72" projector screen (and vice versa). The lack of this feature is particularly worrying as nVidia have now allowed developers to lock some settings like convergence. This means that users are stuck with settings which don't work properly with their screen as they've been locked at levels which are only appropriate for a completely different screen size. It also means that sharing profiles is more problematic as the drivers don't adjust them to allow for screen size. Can this feature be re-enabled? (and can the capability for devs to lock other settings be eliminated?)

10. We can already take 3D screenshots, but the drivers currently have no facility to [b]record movies in 3D[/b]. This would be a great addition as presumably having it at the driver level would have less impact on frame rates than an external application like FRAPS. It would also be a great tool for creating content to promote 3D Vision. Is there any chance that this could be added?

Cheers,
DD
I posted these in the other thread too, but here they are again:



[quote name='andrewf@nvidia' post='957659' date='Nov 30 2009, 03:31 PM']But I want to propose a solution. I would like you guys to help me find out what are your tops issues are every week. I want ChrisRay and Amorphous to help get me the top 5-10 questions, and each week we can post the Q&A directly to you. That way, our forums mods can help stay on top of these issues with me and get my attention when its needed.



What do you say guys?

Well this is certainly a really promising development. My top ten questions to start the ball rolling (all of which have been asked numerous times in this forum by many users) are as follows:



1. The last two driver releases (1.16 CD beta and 1.17 CD) contain a bug which prevents users with generic CRTs, generic DLP TVs (like Samsungs), and at least some DLP projectors from successfully completing the 3D Vision Setup Wizard. Our displays aren't recognized as 3D Ready (despite the fact that they worked fine with all drivers up to 1.15 CD) and so we're only able to select 3D Vision Discover mode (i.e. anaglyph). When will this be fixed, and will future driver releases be tested with all these displays prior to release so this problem never arises again?



2. When will OpenGL support for Geforce cards be re-enabled? (The old nVidia sterescopic drivers had this feature prior to the launch of 3D Vision and its continued absence is a very big deal -many major games use OpenGL, like all id Software products (and dozens of games which use their engines), the IL2 Sturmovik series, X-Plane etc etc).



3. Like most other projector users, I have to wear my nVidia glasses upside down to compensate for the one frame delay, as the nVidia kit lacks any hardware or software sync adjustment. I also suffer far worse timing-related ghosting with my nVidia glasses than my old E-Dimensionals (which were a quarter of the price). As a result, the only time my nVidia glasses are ever taken out of their bag is when I've friends round playing multiplayer games, the rest of the time I'm forced to use the old E-Dims. This is really, really annoying -I'd much rather use my expensive newer glasses (which, to nVidia's credit) are well built and have an excellent emitter, unfortunately they're crippled by the lack of a sync adjustment option in the drivers.



The problem isn't confined to projector users, as it also affects owners of the bundled monitors and CRTs, many of whom also suffer from image reversal/ghosting (in a limited part of the screen) caused by incorrectly synced timing. (The latter issue is evident on both Geforce and Quadro cards). The really frustrating thing is that the old nVidia 3D drivers had the ability to fix this problem with the GlassesDelayMinus, GlassesDelayPlus and GlassesSwitchDelay registry settings so presumably it would be very straightforward to re-enable them. When can we expect to see this crucial feature return to the 3D Vision drivers?



4. The on-screen display feature of the 3D Vision drivers was a great start but unfortunately it hasn't seen any improvements since launch. Can it be expanded to include settings like convergence, frustrum adjustment, near plane, far plane etc?



5. The old nVidia stereoscopic drivers had a gamma adjustment feature which was very useful as it allowed users to set gamma adjustment (and store it in the 3D profile for each game) to compensate for the fact that shutter glasses reduce brightness by almost 50%. In the 3D Vision drivers this feature was removed so now players have to use the game's own gamma adjustment facility (if it even has one) to compensate. Of course this means that if you then play the game in 2D everything is now too bright. Will this handy feature be re-enabled in the 3D Vision drivers?



6. nVidia's efforts with regard to developer relations and 3D don't seem to have been very fruitful - almost a year after the launch of 3D Vision (and the best part of a decade since nVidia first released stereoscopic drivers) we've seen only two or three games which were specifically designed to work well with 3D Vision. 3D profiles continue to lag behind game releases (sometimes by months) when they should be available prior to the launch of a game (and its demo) so that users can play in 3D immediately (after all, most of a game's sales tend to be made in the first couple of weeks after launch and that is when people want to be able to play).



The number of existing games which have been patched to accommodate the demands of 3D is also tiny and new games continue to exhibit the same old problems again and again. Left 4 Dead 2, for example, has all the same 3D anomalies as its predecessor, including my personal pet hates, screen depth player names and incorrect depth of "3D skybox" objects, and both of these issues crop up in dozens of other games too (particularly those of Valve whose products alone make up something like 85% of the online PC action market).



When will we see nVidia take bigger steps to improve this situation? According to the Steam survey, over 60% of gamers have nVidia cards so you guys have massive influence with developers (none of whom would want to write off over half of their customers) but there seems to have been an almost total failure to capitalize on this. Given the failings of the current approach, why not increase pressure on developers by dropping all support and cross promotion for those who refuse to sign up to follow 3D Vision compatability guidelines for future games (and those who fail to update major existing games to work well in 3D)? In other words, whenever any developer contacts nVidia for help with any issue whatsoever (even if completely unrelated to 3D) the first response should be to tell them that nVidia is unable to provide any assistance until they've signed a pledge that their games will follow all 3D Vision compatability guidelines.



7. Since the launch of the original stereoscopic drivers, the 3D laser sight has always been somewhat erratic. In some games enabling it triggers massive frame rate loss, in others its movement in the Z dimension occurs in large jumps rather than smoothly, and in some games it doesn't even work at all. Will nVidia have a serious look at the underlying code and resolve these problems?



8. Settings for convergence and depth are related - adjusting one often necessitates a change in the other, yet when we save a 3D Vision profile the depth isn't stored. This means that if you adjust settings for one game, save the profile and then play a second game which requires different depth settings, you'll have to readjust the depth if you return to the first game. Can the code for saving profiles with CTRL+F7 be adjusted so that it also saves depth?



9. Previously there was a setting in the drivers for screen size. This was useful as display size has a major effect on perceived depth so a profile that's been designed to work well on a tiny 22" screen won't look right on a 72" projector screen (and vice versa). The lack of this feature is particularly worrying as nVidia have now allowed developers to lock some settings like convergence. This means that users are stuck with settings which don't work properly with their screen as they've been locked at levels which are only appropriate for a completely different screen size. It also means that sharing profiles is more problematic as the drivers don't adjust them to allow for screen size. Can this feature be re-enabled? (and can the capability for devs to lock other settings be eliminated?)



10. We can already take 3D screenshots, but the drivers currently have no facility to record movies in 3D. This would be a great addition as presumably having it at the driver level would have less impact on frame rates than an external application like FRAPS. It would also be a great tool for creating content to promote 3D Vision. Is there any chance that this could be added?



Cheers,

DD

#2
Posted 12/01/2009 01:07 AM   
What is being done to improve 3D crosshair support? It either doesn't work in some games or causes framerate issues in others.
What is being done to improve 3D crosshair support? It either doesn't work in some games or causes framerate issues in others.

#3
Posted 12/01/2009 01:07 AM   
[quote name='DickDastardly' post='957953' date='Nov 30 2009, 06:07 PM']I posted these in the other thread too, but here they are again:<[/quote]

missed it up dating now... nice to see your still here fighting the battle =)

i remember you from a year ago
[quote name='DickDastardly' post='957953' date='Nov 30 2009, 06:07 PM']I posted these in the other thread too, but here they are again:<



missed it up dating now... nice to see your still here fighting the battle =)



i remember you from a year ago

#4
Posted 12/01/2009 01:09 AM   
Here's a vote for a sticky!
Here's a vote for a sticky!

#5
Posted 12/01/2009 01:23 AM   
Just wanted to say thank you Andrew, Amorphous & ChrisRay for supporting us.

This is exactly what this place needed. Now as users, I would hope we will all behave
and not flood them with unreasonable requests, be patient, and greatful for this well
deserved support.
Just wanted to say thank you Andrew, Amorphous & ChrisRay for supporting us.



This is exactly what this place needed. Now as users, I would hope we will all behave

and not flood them with unreasonable requests, be patient, and greatful for this well

deserved support.

#6
Posted 12/01/2009 02:14 AM   
exactly , i feel like ive been waiting for something like this

thanks again to the mods
exactly , i feel like ive been waiting for something like this



thanks again to the mods

intel i5 2500k @ 4.6 30C Stable

EVGA gtx 470 SLI

windows vista 64 bit

8 gig Corsair Vengeance RAM

#7
Posted 12/01/2009 02:27 AM   
Feeling rather motivated if not compelled by the overwhelming response this community had over Andrew's return and continued involvement (as well as his commitment to you all in the first place) I see no reason to allow a thread of this nature to fall beyond the first page of this forum.

As with the vanilla Q&A thread, treat the NVIDIA staff and of course [i]each other[/i] kindly, as this will be monitored rather closely for ne'er-do-wells. Yarr.
Feeling rather motivated if not compelled by the overwhelming response this community had over Andrew's return and continued involvement (as well as his commitment to you all in the first place) I see no reason to allow a thread of this nature to fall beyond the first page of this forum.



As with the vanilla Q&A thread, treat the NVIDIA staff and of course each other kindly, as this will be monitored rather closely for ne'er-do-wells. Yarr.

GeForce Technical Marketing

#8
Posted 12/01/2009 03:15 AM   
My favorite topic on this board so far. Just to be clear, I think it is partially my fault that first issue only mentions DLP (since I responded first to Andrew), but that is a "generic" enough issue that it seems to affect CRT users as well. Just in case it wasn't on the radar enough already with being tops in the list ;)

And here's hoping that enough issues get resolved to eventually get the OpenGL support issue on the short list. . .
My favorite topic on this board so far. Just to be clear, I think it is partially my fault that first issue only mentions DLP (since I responded first to Andrew), but that is a "generic" enough issue that it seems to affect CRT users as well. Just in case it wasn't on the radar enough already with being tops in the list ;)



And here's hoping that enough issues get resolved to eventually get the OpenGL support issue on the short list. . .

#9
Posted 12/01/2009 09:21 AM   
I will be adding more soon but these 5 are some real busters bugs we have been dealing with since launch and need the most attention as its effects running the system as a whole. I figured the first 5 would not be to over whelming as these are not lite topics either.

Feature request will handled as MEDIUM to LOW of course...

Also please do clog this thread with stuff that has nothing to do with 3D. We will just ask the mod's to clean any messy post up because this thread has to be taken care of and respectful for this to work.

Again thanks for the support from the users and MOD's...
I will be adding more soon but these 5 are some real busters bugs we have been dealing with since launch and need the most attention as its effects running the system as a whole. I figured the first 5 would not be to over whelming as these are not lite topics either.



Feature request will handled as MEDIUM to LOW of course...



Also please do clog this thread with stuff that has nothing to do with 3D. We will just ask the mod's to clean any messy post up because this thread has to be taken care of and respectful for this to work.



Again thanks for the support from the users and MOD's...

#10
Posted 12/01/2009 01:35 PM   
hi ...

I would like to underline the support of generic crt and older projectors ,
though this is mentioned several times here ....
its the most important for me ...

just to emphasize it ... :-)

regards
steps
hi ...



I would like to underline the support of generic crt and older projectors ,

though this is mentioned several times here ....

its the most important for me ...



just to emphasize it ... :-)



regards

steps

Windows 7 64bit,AMD FX 8350,Nvidia GTX 670
Acer HN274H + nVidia 3D Vision,TriDef Driver
Acer H5360 + nVidia 3D Vision,TriDef Driver

http://photos.3dvisionlive.com/stepsbarto/

#11
Posted 12/01/2009 02:30 PM   
I can only add that a delay slider is just half way to go and should be completed by a duty cicle slider. (if duty stays at 50% you run into danger to delay the "shut-off" point into the next frame)
I can only add that a delay slider is just half way to go and should be completed by a duty cicle slider. (if duty stays at 50% you run into danger to delay the "shut-off" point into the next frame)

#12
Posted 12/01/2009 05:06 PM   
[quote name='quadrophoeniX' post='958233' date='Dec 1 2009, 05:06 PM']I can only add that a delay slider is just half way to go and should be completed by a duty cicle slider. (if duty stays at 50% you run into danger to delay the "shut-off" point into the next frame)[/quote]

first ive heard of this care to go in depth?
[quote name='quadrophoeniX' post='958233' date='Dec 1 2009, 05:06 PM']I can only add that a delay slider is just half way to go and should be completed by a duty cicle slider. (if duty stays at 50% you run into danger to delay the "shut-off" point into the next frame)



first ive heard of this care to go in depth?

intel i5 2500k @ 4.6 30C Stable

EVGA gtx 470 SLI

windows vista 64 bit

8 gig Corsair Vengeance RAM

#13
Posted 12/01/2009 06:40 PM   
[quote name='nhoj333' post='958254' date='Dec 1 2009, 07:40 PM']first ive heard of this care to go in depth?[/quote]
It's sync, frame delay. Question 3 on DickDastardly's list.

I think the most obvious issue that everyone's been getting riled up about is just a simple bug fix.

The setup routine that does display detection worked perfectly in CD v1.15, was changed in CD v1.16 where it became broken for Generic CRT/DLP/Projectors, and was (accidentally) not corrected in CD v1.17.

After this basic but major bug is fixed in CD v1.18 then any issues outstanding like actual enhancements to the driver(sync, convergence, OSD, OpenGL) should take the top of the list where they belong. This detection bug should never have been there in the first place.

And of course we are all wanting the new profiles(Avatar etc) which come in every new driver release. It would make sense that if all these issues were tackled at once, the driver release would be delayed due to the work and testing involved.

More power to Nvidia to get the new driver out and for future enhancements, we're all rooting for you /stud.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':stud:' />
[quote name='nhoj333' post='958254' date='Dec 1 2009, 07:40 PM']first ive heard of this care to go in depth?

It's sync, frame delay. Question 3 on DickDastardly's list.



I think the most obvious issue that everyone's been getting riled up about is just a simple bug fix.



The setup routine that does display detection worked perfectly in CD v1.15, was changed in CD v1.16 where it became broken for Generic CRT/DLP/Projectors, and was (accidentally) not corrected in CD v1.17.



After this basic but major bug is fixed in CD v1.18 then any issues outstanding like actual enhancements to the driver(sync, convergence, OSD, OpenGL) should take the top of the list where they belong. This detection bug should never have been there in the first place.



And of course we are all wanting the new profiles(Avatar etc) which come in every new driver release. It would make sense that if all these issues were tackled at once, the driver release would be delayed due to the work and testing involved.



More power to Nvidia to get the new driver out and for future enhancements, we're all rooting for you /stud.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':stud:' />

#14
Posted 12/01/2009 11:03 PM   
[quote name='nhoj333' post='958254' date='Dec 1 2009, 07:40 PM']first ive heard of this care to go in depth?[/quote]

[quote name='muu5' post='958350' date='Dec 2 2009, 12:03 AM']It's sync, frame delay. Question 3 on DickDastardly's list.[/quote]

Not quite. I am also trying to propose a possible fix to adress the ghosting issues that some people have with the Sammy 2233RZ. To understand the problem we need to understand the way TFTs work: A frame is generated and then rendered on the display, The time to do this picture progressing leads to a misalignment between the shutters of the glasses open up and the actual frame being displayed - this can be fixed by adjustable "delay", and also will be sufficient for DLP users.

However, due to the hold type nature of the TFT there is a certain time the pixels need to shift their state from one frame to the next. This is well known as the response time and depending of how you measure will range from 2-5mS tipically. In this timeslot the content is undefined and unless we talk about a monitor with blanking (what would call for a 240Hz panel) there will be a blend of both frames. Now, with a duty cicle of 50% as now, each shutter is open for 8.3mS. There is allways one eye opaque while the other is transparent. So each eye will be "open" during the transiston and you will see both frames and hence ghosting. What we need is a timeframe where both eyes are opaque that falls as exactly as possible into that slot. With "duty cicle" and "delay" you would start with a reduced duty cicle value of say 25%, adjust delay to a minimum of ghosting and then open up the duty again until ghosting just starts to reoccur again. Of course this will mandatory lead to an additional loss in brightness, but only this way you will be able to compensate for manufacturing variances and different monitor types.
[quote name='nhoj333' post='958254' date='Dec 1 2009, 07:40 PM']first ive heard of this care to go in depth?



[quote name='muu5' post='958350' date='Dec 2 2009, 12:03 AM']It's sync, frame delay. Question 3 on DickDastardly's list.



Not quite. I am also trying to propose a possible fix to adress the ghosting issues that some people have with the Sammy 2233RZ. To understand the problem we need to understand the way TFTs work: A frame is generated and then rendered on the display, The time to do this picture progressing leads to a misalignment between the shutters of the glasses open up and the actual frame being displayed - this can be fixed by adjustable "delay", and also will be sufficient for DLP users.



However, due to the hold type nature of the TFT there is a certain time the pixels need to shift their state from one frame to the next. This is well known as the response time and depending of how you measure will range from 2-5mS tipically. In this timeslot the content is undefined and unless we talk about a monitor with blanking (what would call for a 240Hz panel) there will be a blend of both frames. Now, with a duty cicle of 50% as now, each shutter is open for 8.3mS. There is allways one eye opaque while the other is transparent. So each eye will be "open" during the transiston and you will see both frames and hence ghosting. What we need is a timeframe where both eyes are opaque that falls as exactly as possible into that slot. With "duty cicle" and "delay" you would start with a reduced duty cicle value of say 25%, adjust delay to a minimum of ghosting and then open up the duty again until ghosting just starts to reoccur again. Of course this will mandatory lead to an additional loss in brightness, but only this way you will be able to compensate for manufacturing variances and different monitor types.

#15
Posted 12/01/2009 11:50 PM   
  1 / 16    
Scroll To Top