New VESA universal VGA delay dongle for DLP 85hz projectors! Flawless, affordable big screen 3d
  1 / 2    
Hi all,

I've been using 85hz DLP projectors exclusively for my 3d solution over the last 2 years, and some of the results in my refining process can be seen in my home simulator project here (This is a little out of date and has been built on further since this, videos on Youtube soon):-

[url="http://www.mtbs3d.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=2907&hilit=home+simulator"]http://www.mtbs3d.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?...=home+simulator[/url]

There were a bunch of issues to get around to make all this work with the greatest effect, a large one of which was the slight timing differences (and eye reversing etc) which are inherent with using consumer 85hz DLPs (which have different signal propogation times in their electronics). This would result sometimes in significant ghosting and inverse parallax, which could all be resolved with some circuitry to delay this signal.

Following this I sat down with a friend who is an electrnoics engineer and he offered to put together a delay controller with me to test - this was completed a few weeks ago and yielded such excellent results he's offered to build these to order for anyone that wants to use 85hz dlp's with shutters.

This dongle works with all 3d-capable 85hz dlps I've tested (namely the Infocus X1, Sharp XR10-x, BenQ MP721 and others, the full list can be found at:- [url="http://www.stereo3d.com/cgi-bin/discus/show.cgi?3177/3347)"]http://www.stereo3d.com/cgi-bin/discus/show.cgi?3177/3347)[/url]. The great thing about it is it has a standard VESA output, meaning it will work with shutter glasses such as the following flawlessly, you just plug this into your vga port then your existing IR emitter straight into it:-

* [b]nvidia 3dvision [/b]- Plug the output from this into the VESA input in 3dvision glasses to resolve sync issues using these with 85hz DLP projectors (this is a great solution, as there is significant ghosting and eye reversal when using 3dvision without this).

* eDimensional (wireless) - replaces the eDim VGA dongle completely, just plug your little IR emitter into it.

* Stereographics CrystalEyes (2/3 etc)

* ELSA revalator

[i]NOTE this dongle can be used perfectly in conjunction with the 3dvision driver, if you wish to use other glasses such as CrystalEyes or the new super-value large lcd Samsungs with your high end graphics card.[/i]

In all the time I've spent using DLP's such as this, this is the product I've been looking for and finally all my glasses technologies (CrystalEyes, eDimensionals and 3dvision) work flawlessly with all my projectors (Infocus X1, Sharp XR10X and BenQ MP720P). Personally I will _NOT_ fork out thousands of dollars for a DEPTHQ with inferior lumens output, and 85hz is extremely comfortable for me, I personally notice no flicker in 99% of scenes and can use it for days on end without any kind of headaches or eyestrain.

If anyone would like one of these, they are built to order with a lead time of 2 weeks and the order / pricing info is on the following page:-


[url="http://nextstepsolutions.co.uk/home/node/11"]http://nextstepsolutions.co.uk/home/node/11[/url]


Hope this helps, finally I have flawless projected 3d using my GTX280 on 3 screens, hurrah! :) Any questions please feel free to PM me or contact James at the link above.

Rember, a DepthQ HD will set you back about $6000, but you can be using 3dvision NOW on 85hz projectors (very, very little flicker - not noticable at all in most situations) which cost a fraction of this (under $500 on ebay) - from what I know this is the only one box solution out there for purchase at the moment that solves this problem

Happy big-screen 3d'ing! :D
Chris
Hi all,



I've been using 85hz DLP projectors exclusively for my 3d solution over the last 2 years, and some of the results in my refining process can be seen in my home simulator project here (This is a little out of date and has been built on further since this, videos on Youtube soon):-



http://www.mtbs3d.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?...=home+simulator



There were a bunch of issues to get around to make all this work with the greatest effect, a large one of which was the slight timing differences (and eye reversing etc) which are inherent with using consumer 85hz DLPs (which have different signal propogation times in their electronics). This would result sometimes in significant ghosting and inverse parallax, which could all be resolved with some circuitry to delay this signal.



Following this I sat down with a friend who is an electrnoics engineer and he offered to put together a delay controller with me to test - this was completed a few weeks ago and yielded such excellent results he's offered to build these to order for anyone that wants to use 85hz dlp's with shutters.



This dongle works with all 3d-capable 85hz dlps I've tested (namely the Infocus X1, Sharp XR10-x, BenQ MP721 and others, the full list can be found at:- http://www.stereo3d.com/cgi-bin/discus/show.cgi?3177/3347). The great thing about it is it has a standard VESA output, meaning it will work with shutter glasses such as the following flawlessly, you just plug this into your vga port then your existing IR emitter straight into it:-



* nvidia 3dvision - Plug the output from this into the VESA input in 3dvision glasses to resolve sync issues using these with 85hz DLP projectors (this is a great solution, as there is significant ghosting and eye reversal when using 3dvision without this).



* eDimensional (wireless) - replaces the eDim VGA dongle completely, just plug your little IR emitter into it.



* Stereographics CrystalEyes (2/3 etc)



* ELSA revalator



NOTE this dongle can be used perfectly in conjunction with the 3dvision driver, if you wish to use other glasses such as CrystalEyes or the new super-value large lcd Samsungs with your high end graphics card.



In all the time I've spent using DLP's such as this, this is the product I've been looking for and finally all my glasses technologies (CrystalEyes, eDimensionals and 3dvision) work flawlessly with all my projectors (Infocus X1, Sharp XR10X and BenQ MP720P). Personally I will _NOT_ fork out thousands of dollars for a DEPTHQ with inferior lumens output, and 85hz is extremely comfortable for me, I personally notice no flicker in 99% of scenes and can use it for days on end without any kind of headaches or eyestrain.



If anyone would like one of these, they are built to order with a lead time of 2 weeks and the order / pricing info is on the following page:-





http://nextstepsolutions.co.uk/home/node/11





Hope this helps, finally I have flawless projected 3d using my GTX280 on 3 screens, hurrah! :) Any questions please feel free to PM me or contact James at the link above.



Rember, a DepthQ HD will set you back about $6000, but you can be using 3dvision NOW on 85hz projectors (very, very little flicker - not noticable at all in most situations) which cost a fraction of this (under $500 on ebay) - from what I know this is the only one box solution out there for purchase at the moment that solves this problem



Happy big-screen 3d'ing! :D

Chris

#1
Posted 03/29/2009 10:42 PM   
You say 85 hz has very little flicker, and I say complete bullcrap. I ran my crt at 1280x800 at 100 hz and it was completely impossible to watch without extreme flicker. Even 120 hz is barely enough.

At 100 hz, you could clearly see the shutters in action. Now put that right up to your face and enjoy the seizure.

85 hz? Yeah, ok buddy. We need 85 hz PER EYE.
You say 85 hz has very little flicker, and I say complete bullcrap. I ran my crt at 1280x800 at 100 hz and it was completely impossible to watch without extreme flicker. Even 120 hz is barely enough.



At 100 hz, you could clearly see the shutters in action. Now put that right up to your face and enjoy the seizure.



85 hz? Yeah, ok buddy. We need 85 hz PER EYE.

#2
Posted 03/29/2009 10:50 PM   
[quote name='f3likx' post='524138' date='Mar 29 2009, 11:50 PM']You say 85 hz has very little flicker, and I say complete bullcrap. I ran my crt at 1280x800 at 100 hz and it was completely impossible to watch without extreme flicker. Even 120 hz is barely enough.

At 100 hz, you could clearly see the shutters in action. Now put that right up to your face and enjoy the seizure.

85 hz? Yeah, ok buddy. We need 85 hz PER EYE.[/quote]

Sorry my friend but you don't know what you are talking about - go over to MTBS3D and check out the comments, also read the posts on the stereo3D webboard I have linked to above - running 85hz on a projector is VERY different to running on a CRT, where I TOTALLY agree it is unwatchable. The 3D vision solution and a lot of CRTs top out at 120hz, as does the DepthQ's. I've been using 85hz projectors for several years now and the 3D is flawless and highly, highly comfortable - Sharp XR10X's are commonly used in comercial simulator rides and 3D gaming environments for this very reason, and their 4x color wheel speed make them an excellent choice. You CANNOT see flicker except in very bright scenes where you need to look hard for it - knock it down to 60hz and it is indeed a different story, but even then there are some people out there who seem to be able to use this comfortably. Clearly you havent tried as you will find there are thousands of people who are using this solution right now who you will find strongly disagree with you - give it a go and you will be pleasantly surprised, otherwise try forking out thosands of dollars for the alternative! :) There have been quite a few people asking about 85hz DLP support on these forums too if you take a look, this is finally the hardware needed to solve a lot of these problems and personally I will never use another solution until the DepthQ's come down to under $1000. I noticed in your other post you state you are using a CRT - this is the WORST solution for active3D and is NOTORIOUSLY bad for flicker, noticable at even very high refresh rates. 85hz on a DLP projector is significantly more comfortable than 120hz on a CRT - so far I have not spoken to a single person who has any problem using this solution for entire evenings at a time with any eye fatigue whatsoever. I personally have 4x85hz DLPs which have been used by many friends now for watching full-length IMAX 3d movies and noone has ever noticed a single spot of flicker. Ditch your CRT... Do the right Thing!! :)
[quote name='f3likx' post='524138' date='Mar 29 2009, 11:50 PM']You say 85 hz has very little flicker, and I say complete bullcrap. I ran my crt at 1280x800 at 100 hz and it was completely impossible to watch without extreme flicker. Even 120 hz is barely enough.



At 100 hz, you could clearly see the shutters in action. Now put that right up to your face and enjoy the seizure.



85 hz? Yeah, ok buddy. We need 85 hz PER EYE.



Sorry my friend but you don't know what you are talking about - go over to MTBS3D and check out the comments, also read the posts on the stereo3D webboard I have linked to above - running 85hz on a projector is VERY different to running on a CRT, where I TOTALLY agree it is unwatchable. The 3D vision solution and a lot of CRTs top out at 120hz, as does the DepthQ's. I've been using 85hz projectors for several years now and the 3D is flawless and highly, highly comfortable - Sharp XR10X's are commonly used in comercial simulator rides and 3D gaming environments for this very reason, and their 4x color wheel speed make them an excellent choice. You CANNOT see flicker except in very bright scenes where you need to look hard for it - knock it down to 60hz and it is indeed a different story, but even then there are some people out there who seem to be able to use this comfortably. Clearly you havent tried as you will find there are thousands of people who are using this solution right now who you will find strongly disagree with you - give it a go and you will be pleasantly surprised, otherwise try forking out thosands of dollars for the alternative! :) There have been quite a few people asking about 85hz DLP support on these forums too if you take a look, this is finally the hardware needed to solve a lot of these problems and personally I will never use another solution until the DepthQ's come down to under $1000. I noticed in your other post you state you are using a CRT - this is the WORST solution for active3D and is NOTORIOUSLY bad for flicker, noticable at even very high refresh rates. 85hz on a DLP projector is significantly more comfortable than 120hz on a CRT - so far I have not spoken to a single person who has any problem using this solution for entire evenings at a time with any eye fatigue whatsoever. I personally have 4x85hz DLPs which have been used by many friends now for watching full-length IMAX 3d movies and noone has ever noticed a single spot of flicker. Ditch your CRT... Do the right Thing!! :)

#3
Posted 03/29/2009 11:05 PM   
Ok, wait... My CRT does 1280x720 at 120 hz. The glasses are at 60 hz. Therefore, my eyes are seeing 60hz. So, if the projector is 85 hz, how do my eyes not see 43 hz each? Is there something I'm missing?

Less than 60hz is impossibly low. Try locking a game framerate to 30 - it's choppy as hell, and damned near impossible to hit anything. Even 60 isn't smooth and fluid to most people. Over 100, it's pretty smooth and fluid there, with no obvious difference between 150 and 200 hz. 43 - not so much. Maybe for watching a movie it would be ok, but gaming would be impossible there.
Ok, wait... My CRT does 1280x720 at 120 hz. The glasses are at 60 hz. Therefore, my eyes are seeing 60hz. So, if the projector is 85 hz, how do my eyes not see 43 hz each? Is there something I'm missing?



Less than 60hz is impossibly low. Try locking a game framerate to 30 - it's choppy as hell, and damned near impossible to hit anything. Even 60 isn't smooth and fluid to most people. Over 100, it's pretty smooth and fluid there, with no obvious difference between 150 and 200 hz. 43 - not so much. Maybe for watching a movie it would be ok, but gaming would be impossible there.

#4
Posted 03/30/2009 05:15 AM   
[quote name='f3likx' post='524245' date='Mar 30 2009, 12:15 AM']43 - not so much. Maybe for watching a movie it would be ok, but gaming would be impossible there.[/quote]

I remember playing Mist at less than 1fps. It was awesome.

I sometimes play WoW on my asus n10j-a2 netbook and it gets only 15-20fps but is highly enjoyable. Shooters would be harder, but some games are ok at low fps.

I would love to hook my portable up to a projector and play so this is pretty sweet topic and I'm gonna give it a shot. Thanks.
[quote name='f3likx' post='524245' date='Mar 30 2009, 12:15 AM']43 - not so much. Maybe for watching a movie it would be ok, but gaming would be impossible there.



I remember playing Mist at less than 1fps. It was awesome.



I sometimes play WoW on my asus n10j-a2 netbook and it gets only 15-20fps but is highly enjoyable. Shooters would be harder, but some games are ok at low fps.



I would love to hook my portable up to a projector and play so this is pretty sweet topic and I'm gonna give it a shot. Thanks.

1x Intel S5000Xvn Mainboard

2x Quad 2.66GHz Xeons (X5355, 8 Cores)

1x EVGA GTX480

8x 2GB FB-DIMM 667 (16GB)

2x 64GB Corsair M4 SSDs in RAID0 (System)

4x 1TB SATA2 64MB Cache Western Digital Black's in RAID0 (Storage)

1x Sound Blaster X-Fi Elite Pro

1x BD-ROM

1x DVD-RW

1x Antec High Current Pro HCP-1200 1200W Power Supply

1x Dell 30" 2560x1600 LCD

1x Samsung 22" 120hz GeForce 3D Vision Display

1x APC 1500VAC SmartUPS Battery Backup

1x Windows 7 Professional 64-Bit

#5
Posted 03/30/2009 05:30 AM   
[quote name='f3likx' post='524245' date='Mar 30 2009, 06:15 AM']Ok, wait... My CRT does 1280x720 at 120 hz. The glasses are at 60 hz. Therefore, my eyes are seeing 60hz. So, if the projector is 85 hz, how do my eyes not see 43 hz each? Is there something I'm missing?

Less than 60hz is impossibly low. Try locking a game framerate to 30 - it's choppy as hell, and damned near impossible to hit anything. Even 60 isn't smooth and fluid to most people. Over 100, it's pretty smooth and fluid there, with no obvious difference between 150 and 200 hz. 43 - not so much. Maybe for watching a movie it would be ok, but gaming would be impossible there.[/quote]

OK, well - it is evident now you have never tried this and yes there is something you are missing. Here is the science bit as you asked:-

When you watch a TV, be it PAL at say 25fps or NTSC at 30fps, you do not notice individual frames usually due to phosphur persistance times. With a fast monitor, it is more noticable as the response times are better. Also, the contrast ratio is much, much higher with a CRT than a DLP projector, therefore you will get significant ghosting which simply does not exist with the projector - this is what causes headaches and eye-strain.

DLP's inherently work by POV (persistence of vision) - that is the colour wheel has a pass for R, G, B and white, and the mirrors flip into position at the correct angles for each pass. This blending ois perceived by the brain as a solid colour, and this also helps the brain blend one eyes frame into the next. 85hz DLPs are AWESOME for both films and gaming, but primarily gaming - with these rigs it is as fluid as your brain can POSSIBLY perceive (Im also a 3d programmer with 10 years indistry experience btw). If you are not willing to even try then thats up to you - go back to your CRT or crappy checkerboard DLP TV, you are seriously missing out ;)

Trust me, I have owned almost every 3d solution out there and 85hz DLP is by FAR the best I have so far - practically zero ghosting, NO noticable flicker whatsoever 99% of the time, anything in bright scenes is negligible. My flat is a shrine to s3d, I am a member of advacocy groups and as such I also own / have previously owned the following solutions:-

Displays
----------

Iz3d monitor (Passive)
120hz Viewsonic Active TFT
120hz CRT
Dual LCD Polarised projection rig (2 x NEC MT3000)
Sharp XR-10X DLP 85hz
Infocus X1 DLP 85hz
3 x BenQ MP720p (85hz)
BenQ MP721 (85hz).

Glasses
---------

GeForce 3d vision
Stereographics CrystalEyes 3 (8 pairs)
eDimensional with custom long range emitter (6 pairs)
Elsa Revaltor.

I know what I am talking about my friend - and it has long been known that 85hz+ DLP projectors provide _incredible_ results for s3d. Besides, this is not an argument: it is information. There are many people out there desparate to get their systems working properly with these projectors and I am trying to help with this. I'd suggest giving it a go before commenting further, you'll be pleasantly surprised and I gurantee you'll be converted.

If anyone else has a chance to give this a try please do post your results here!! And do not be conerned about 'frame rate issues', they simply do not exist, I'm bombing along at 85fps (43 per eye) and it is absolute lightning fast, remember normal tv is only 2/3rds and perceived as super-smooth. Game FPS readouts sometimes lie, why would you ever want anything more than you brain can possibly perceive anyway?? :)

Hope this helps, and hoep you do give it a try!
Chris J
[quote name='f3likx' post='524245' date='Mar 30 2009, 06:15 AM']Ok, wait... My CRT does 1280x720 at 120 hz. The glasses are at 60 hz. Therefore, my eyes are seeing 60hz. So, if the projector is 85 hz, how do my eyes not see 43 hz each? Is there something I'm missing?



Less than 60hz is impossibly low. Try locking a game framerate to 30 - it's choppy as hell, and damned near impossible to hit anything. Even 60 isn't smooth and fluid to most people. Over 100, it's pretty smooth and fluid there, with no obvious difference between 150 and 200 hz. 43 - not so much. Maybe for watching a movie it would be ok, but gaming would be impossible there.



OK, well - it is evident now you have never tried this and yes there is something you are missing. Here is the science bit as you asked:-



When you watch a TV, be it PAL at say 25fps or NTSC at 30fps, you do not notice individual frames usually due to phosphur persistance times. With a fast monitor, it is more noticable as the response times are better. Also, the contrast ratio is much, much higher with a CRT than a DLP projector, therefore you will get significant ghosting which simply does not exist with the projector - this is what causes headaches and eye-strain.



DLP's inherently work by POV (persistence of vision) - that is the colour wheel has a pass for R, G, B and white, and the mirrors flip into position at the correct angles for each pass. This blending ois perceived by the brain as a solid colour, and this also helps the brain blend one eyes frame into the next. 85hz DLPs are AWESOME for both films and gaming, but primarily gaming - with these rigs it is as fluid as your brain can POSSIBLY perceive (Im also a 3d programmer with 10 years indistry experience btw). If you are not willing to even try then thats up to you - go back to your CRT or crappy checkerboard DLP TV, you are seriously missing out ;)



Trust me, I have owned almost every 3d solution out there and 85hz DLP is by FAR the best I have so far - practically zero ghosting, NO noticable flicker whatsoever 99% of the time, anything in bright scenes is negligible. My flat is a shrine to s3d, I am a member of advacocy groups and as such I also own / have previously owned the following solutions:-



Displays

----------



Iz3d monitor (Passive)

120hz Viewsonic Active TFT

120hz CRT

Dual LCD Polarised projection rig (2 x NEC MT3000)

Sharp XR-10X DLP 85hz

Infocus X1 DLP 85hz

3 x BenQ MP720p (85hz)

BenQ MP721 (85hz).



Glasses

---------



GeForce 3d vision

Stereographics CrystalEyes 3 (8 pairs)

eDimensional with custom long range emitter (6 pairs)

Elsa Revaltor.



I know what I am talking about my friend - and it has long been known that 85hz+ DLP projectors provide _incredible_ results for s3d. Besides, this is not an argument: it is information. There are many people out there desparate to get their systems working properly with these projectors and I am trying to help with this. I'd suggest giving it a go before commenting further, you'll be pleasantly surprised and I gurantee you'll be converted.



If anyone else has a chance to give this a try please do post your results here!! And do not be conerned about 'frame rate issues', they simply do not exist, I'm bombing along at 85fps (43 per eye) and it is absolute lightning fast, remember normal tv is only 2/3rds and perceived as super-smooth. Game FPS readouts sometimes lie, why would you ever want anything more than you brain can possibly perceive anyway?? :)



Hope this helps, and hoep you do give it a try!

Chris J

#6
Posted 03/30/2009 10:13 AM   
Well said chris,

You sure don't need any help defending your position but let me chime in. One key point is
PLAY IN THE DARK!

I use either a projector or a CRT and am happy running the system at 60Hz, 30Hz per eye.
Sometimes when I'm testing something on the projector (in the dark) I have to wonder if
the glasses are flickering and have to turn on a light to check otherwise It's hard to tell.
Maybe I have glaucoma. :unsure:

Anyway on another point, my projector is a Viewsonic-PJ503D and I've discovered that 60Hz
has equal color in each eye and non-60Hz has unequal color. Does that dongle fix that issue?

Here's an idea for you and your friend: change the shutterglass timings so that you can use LCD
monitors with s3d programs. I know it may turn out to be impossible or too bad to be worthwhile
but if you could make the clear-durations very small and at the right time, then that might just
allow each eye to not see the ghost of the other eye. I'm really expecting a negative answer on
this but I would like to hear your comments on the issue.
Maybe you could restrict the ghosting to the top and bottom 10% of the screen?

Thanks for doing something that I was also thinking about.

PS: I use wired glasses so that it's easy to wire-up a parallax inversion switch.
Well said chris,



You sure don't need any help defending your position but let me chime in. One key point is

PLAY IN THE DARK!



I use either a projector or a CRT and am happy running the system at 60Hz, 30Hz per eye.

Sometimes when I'm testing something on the projector (in the dark) I have to wonder if

the glasses are flickering and have to turn on a light to check otherwise It's hard to tell.

Maybe I have glaucoma. :unsure:



Anyway on another point, my projector is a Viewsonic-PJ503D and I've discovered that 60Hz

has equal color in each eye and non-60Hz has unequal color. Does that dongle fix that issue?



Here's an idea for you and your friend: change the shutterglass timings so that you can use LCD

monitors with s3d programs. I know it may turn out to be impossible or too bad to be worthwhile

but if you could make the clear-durations very small and at the right time, then that might just

allow each eye to not see the ghost of the other eye. I'm really expecting a negative answer on

this but I would like to hear your comments on the issue.

Maybe you could restrict the ghosting to the top and bottom 10% of the screen?



Thanks for doing something that I was also thinking about.



PS: I use wired glasses so that it's easy to wire-up a parallax inversion switch.

#7
Posted 04/01/2009 06:51 AM   
[quote name='iondrive' post='525055' date='Apr 1 2009, 07:51 AM']Well said chris,

You sure don't need any help defending your position but let me chime in. One key point is
PLAY IN THE DARK!

I use either a projector or a CRT and am happy running the system at 60Hz, 30Hz per eye.
Sometimes when I'm testing something on the projector (in the dark) I have to wonder if
the glasses are flickering and have to turn on a light to check otherwise It's hard to tell.
Maybe I have glaucoma. :unsure:

Anyway on another point, my projector is a Viewsonic-PJ503D and I've discovered that 60Hz
has equal color in each eye and non-60Hz has unequal color. Does that dongle fix that issue?

Here's an idea for you and your friend: change the shutterglass timings so that you can use LCD
monitors with s3d programs. I know it may turn out to be impossible or too bad to be worthwhile
but if you could make the clear-durations very small and at the right time, then that might just
allow each eye to not see the ghost of the other eye. I'm really expecting a negative answer on
this but I would like to hear your comments on the issue.
Maybe you could restrict the ghosting to the top and bottom 10% of the screen?

Thanks for doing something that I was also thinking about.

PS: I use wired glasses so that it's easy to wire-up a parallax inversion switch.[/quote]

Hi,

Thanks for your comments.

In terms of the first problem (color balance), no - this is impossible to resolve due to the 3x colour wheel speed of most consumer DLP's - it is to do with the timeslicing of the colour wheel between each eye (e.g. one receives one extra blue pass, and the other one extra red pass) - the only known consumer DLP to not suffer this issue is the Sharp XR10X, which has a 4x colour wheel speed, which drops to 2x at 85hz so has a perfect complete CW pass per eye per refresh (hence the colors are completely correct).

In terms of LCD monitors, this is not possible with 60hz LCD's due to rise/fall times - the 120hz Samsungs that ship with the 3dvision solution are designed for 3d and do not suffer these problems. In terms of timings for experimentation though, there is a delay switch on the dongle for this purpose. You will not be able to use 3dvision with wired glasses on all consumer DLPs as different timings are required for each, which is where the rotary delay control on this dongle comes in (this allows me to use 3dvision on all 3 different types of my consumer DLPs, which do require tweaks for each).

Hope this helps,
Chris

p.s. There is also a DVI version of this dongle currently being considered, if this is of preference please indicate this when making any enquiries in order to receive availability info.
[quote name='iondrive' post='525055' date='Apr 1 2009, 07:51 AM']Well said chris,



You sure don't need any help defending your position but let me chime in. One key point is

PLAY IN THE DARK!



I use either a projector or a CRT and am happy running the system at 60Hz, 30Hz per eye.

Sometimes when I'm testing something on the projector (in the dark) I have to wonder if

the glasses are flickering and have to turn on a light to check otherwise It's hard to tell.

Maybe I have glaucoma. :unsure:



Anyway on another point, my projector is a Viewsonic-PJ503D and I've discovered that 60Hz

has equal color in each eye and non-60Hz has unequal color. Does that dongle fix that issue?



Here's an idea for you and your friend: change the shutterglass timings so that you can use LCD

monitors with s3d programs. I know it may turn out to be impossible or too bad to be worthwhile

but if you could make the clear-durations very small and at the right time, then that might just

allow each eye to not see the ghost of the other eye. I'm really expecting a negative answer on

this but I would like to hear your comments on the issue.

Maybe you could restrict the ghosting to the top and bottom 10% of the screen?



Thanks for doing something that I was also thinking about.



PS: I use wired glasses so that it's easy to wire-up a parallax inversion switch.



Hi,



Thanks for your comments.



In terms of the first problem (color balance), no - this is impossible to resolve due to the 3x colour wheel speed of most consumer DLP's - it is to do with the timeslicing of the colour wheel between each eye (e.g. one receives one extra blue pass, and the other one extra red pass) - the only known consumer DLP to not suffer this issue is the Sharp XR10X, which has a 4x colour wheel speed, which drops to 2x at 85hz so has a perfect complete CW pass per eye per refresh (hence the colors are completely correct).



In terms of LCD monitors, this is not possible with 60hz LCD's due to rise/fall times - the 120hz Samsungs that ship with the 3dvision solution are designed for 3d and do not suffer these problems. In terms of timings for experimentation though, there is a delay switch on the dongle for this purpose. You will not be able to use 3dvision with wired glasses on all consumer DLPs as different timings are required for each, which is where the rotary delay control on this dongle comes in (this allows me to use 3dvision on all 3 different types of my consumer DLPs, which do require tweaks for each).



Hope this helps,

Chris



p.s. There is also a DVI version of this dongle currently being considered, if this is of preference please indicate this when making any enquiries in order to receive availability info.

#8
Posted 04/02/2009 03:06 PM   
I agree with Chris I am one that could game with a DLP Projectoer at 60HZ and Barely notice the Flicker.. I currently use a Sharp XR10XL DLP Projector and game @ 75Hz and do NOT notice the flicker..Like Chris said gaming on a CRT and a DLP are Different altho at 100Hz on a CRT looked about the same as 75- 85 hz on a DLP to me anyway..

Get a Projector and see for your self you may be pleasently surprised ;)
I agree with Chris I am one that could game with a DLP Projectoer at 60HZ and Barely notice the Flicker.. I currently use a Sharp XR10XL DLP Projector and game @ 75Hz and do NOT notice the flicker..Like Chris said gaming on a CRT and a DLP are Different altho at 100Hz on a CRT looked about the same as 75- 85 hz on a DLP to me anyway..



Get a Projector and see for your self you may be pleasently surprised ;)

Intel i5 3570K @ 4.5GHZ / Asus P8Z68-V / eVGA 590GTX / 3 - Acer X1261P Projectors / 3-45" Screens wScreenGoo / TrackIR / HOTAS Cougar / Cougar MFD's

#9
Posted 04/02/2009 06:48 PM   
For clarification, if anybody interested in using stereo-capable consumer DLPs would like further information as to the units supported, their supported refresh rates and the various technical points with using such solutions successfully, please refer to this excellent article:-

[url="http://cmst.curtin.edu.au/publicat/2007-05.pdf"]http://cmst.curtin.edu.au/publicat/2007-05.pdf[/url]

For these tests, a dongle such as the one discussed in this thread was devised in order to acheive the best results - as far as I am aware this is currently the only dongle 'commerically' available to ensure compatibility at this time.
For clarification, if anybody interested in using stereo-capable consumer DLPs would like further information as to the units supported, their supported refresh rates and the various technical points with using such solutions successfully, please refer to this excellent article:-



http://cmst.curtin.edu.au/publicat/2007-05.pdf



For these tests, a dongle such as the one discussed in this thread was devised in order to acheive the best results - as far as I am aware this is currently the only dongle 'commerically' available to ensure compatibility at this time.

#10
Posted 04/02/2009 11:00 PM   
[quote name='chrisjarram' post='525574' date='Apr 2 2009, 03:06 PM']the only known consumer DLP to not suffer this issue is the Sharp XR10X, which has a 4x colour wheel speed, which drops to 2x at 85hz so has a perfect complete CW pass per eye per refresh (hence the colors are completely correct).[/quote]

Chris have you tested any 6x color wheel projectors? [url="http://www.projectorcentral.com/Optoma-HD80.htm"]http://www.projectorcentral.com/Optoma-HD80.htm[/url] This is one but there are a few others.
[quote name='chrisjarram' post='525574' date='Apr 2 2009, 03:06 PM']the only known consumer DLP to not suffer this issue is the Sharp XR10X, which has a 4x colour wheel speed, which drops to 2x at 85hz so has a perfect complete CW pass per eye per refresh (hence the colors are completely correct).



Chris have you tested any 6x color wheel projectors? http://www.projectorcentral.com/Optoma-HD80.htm This is one but there are a few others.

#11
Posted 04/09/2009 10:55 PM   
Chris,

thanks for the info, that sounds just great. Being a 3d follower of the firts hours (H3D/Metabyte on a Voodoo2) I'v been torturing my brain how to synchronize my shutters through DVI. However, not being a beamer fan I would give it a shot on my regular 60 HZ 30' LCD until ther is a 26 incher, full HD, 120 Hz at least... Anyway following your suggestion I just posted my inquiry / interest for a DVI version on nextstepsolution...allthough i had to point out that DVI is only useful with Dual Liink capabilities due to bandwith limitation of a single DVI channel (and me having that 30'er;-) ). The second question I put there, but probably is better with you, is: with the current hardware, when you put your gfx card in clone mode and have the VESA signal handled by one output over VGA and the second output drives the DVI display directly, wouldn't that work using the delay adjustment? If so it could render the DVI version obsolete. Also, do I understand right, that the latest 3D drivers from nvidia can be convinced to output a shutter signal through this adaptor when the 3D Vision dongle is hooked up to the machine?
Chris,



thanks for the info, that sounds just great. Being a 3d follower of the firts hours (H3D/Metabyte on a Voodoo2) I'v been torturing my brain how to synchronize my shutters through DVI. However, not being a beamer fan I would give it a shot on my regular 60 HZ 30' LCD until ther is a 26 incher, full HD, 120 Hz at least... Anyway following your suggestion I just posted my inquiry / interest for a DVI version on nextstepsolution...allthough i had to point out that DVI is only useful with Dual Liink capabilities due to bandwith limitation of a single DVI channel (and me having that 30'er;-) ). The second question I put there, but probably is better with you, is: with the current hardware, when you put your gfx card in clone mode and have the VESA signal handled by one output over VGA and the second output drives the DVI display directly, wouldn't that work using the delay adjustment? If so it could render the DVI version obsolete. Also, do I understand right, that the latest 3D drivers from nvidia can be convinced to output a shutter signal through this adaptor when the 3D Vision dongle is hooked up to the machine?

#12
Posted 04/17/2009 12:08 AM   
I've had great experiences seeing flickerless wall to wall 3d stereo projection with my Sharp DLP projector (ebay $400). My problem is finding a way to recreate this dream with my new Windows 7 9800 GTS. what OS and driver are you using for your set up with the GTX280?
thanks


[quote name='chrisjarram' post='524135' date='Mar 29 2009, 06:42 PM']Hope this helps, finally I have flawless projected 3d using my GTX280 on 3 screens, hurrah! :) Any questions please feel free to PM me or contact James at the link above.

Rember, a DepthQ HD will set you back about $6000, but you can be using 3dvision NOW on 85hz projectors (very, very little flicker - not noticable at all in most situations) which cost a fraction of this (under $500 on ebay) - from what I know this is the only one box solution out there for purchase at the moment that solves this problem

Happy big-screen 3d'ing! :D
Chris[/quote]
I've had great experiences seeing flickerless wall to wall 3d stereo projection with my Sharp DLP projector (ebay $400). My problem is finding a way to recreate this dream with my new Windows 7 9800 GTS. what OS and driver are you using for your set up with the GTX280?

thanks





[quote name='chrisjarram' post='524135' date='Mar 29 2009, 06:42 PM']Hope this helps, finally I have flawless projected 3d using my GTX280 on 3 screens, hurrah! :) Any questions please feel free to PM me or contact James at the link above.



Rember, a DepthQ HD will set you back about $6000, but you can be using 3dvision NOW on 85hz projectors (very, very little flicker - not noticable at all in most situations) which cost a fraction of this (under $500 on ebay) - from what I know this is the only one box solution out there for purchase at the moment that solves this problem



Happy big-screen 3d'ing! :D

Chris

#13
Posted 05/18/2009 01:17 PM   
Hi,
85 Hz on DLPs is enough -I agree, my system with old 7600, e-dim glasses, Matrox duale head2Go, 2 Benq PB 6240 is awesome thing. The dlicker is in dark practically no noticeable. Monitor or this - I think the answer is clear. Video is in 2D, this system works too in 3D with shutters and 91.31 drivers.

[url="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4_p69UwOsNU"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4_p69UwOsNU[/url]
Hi,

85 Hz on DLPs is enough -I agree, my system with old 7600, e-dim glasses, Matrox duale head2Go, 2 Benq PB 6240 is awesome thing. The dlicker is in dark practically no noticeable. Monitor or this - I think the answer is clear. Video is in 2D, this system works too in 3D with shutters and 91.31 drivers.



#14
Posted 05/19/2009 07:10 PM   
[quote name='Hornet' post='543040' date='May 19 2009, 09:10 PM']Hi,
85 Hz on DLPs is enough -I agree, my system with old 7600, e-dim glasses, Matrox duale head2Go, 2 Benq PB 6240 is awesome thing. The dlicker is in dark practically no noticeable. Monitor or this - I think the answer is clear. Video is in 2D, this system works too in 3D with shutters and 91.31 drivers.

[url="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4_p69UwOsNU"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4_p69UwOsNU[/url][/quote]
[quote name='Hornet' post='543040' date='May 19 2009, 09:10 PM']Hi,

85 Hz on DLPs is enough -I agree, my system with old 7600, e-dim glasses, Matrox duale head2Go, 2 Benq PB 6240 is awesome thing. The dlicker is in dark practically no noticeable. Monitor or this - I think the answer is clear. Video is in 2D, this system works too in 3D with shutters and 91.31 drivers.



#15
Posted 05/19/2009 07:11 PM   
  1 / 2    
Scroll To Top