Failed EDID handshake disables HDMI output with TV off
Dear nVidia driver technical support people/experts:

I built a computer using an nVidia based video card (XFX GeForce 7600GS with HDMI) with the HDMI output connected to my Samsung 1080p LCD TV display HDMI input. I am using Microsoft Vista Home Premium SP1 as the operating system so I can use Vista's Media Center to automatically wake from sleep mode (S3) and record scheduled TV shows from the computer's TV tuner card with the Samsung TV powered OFF when I am not home.

My problem is that when the computer wakes to record TV shows as scheduled with the Samsung LCD TV powered OFF, the EDID "handshake" between the nVidia based video card's HDMI output and the Samsung LCD TV's HDMI input fails because the Samsung LCD TV is powered OFF and the nVidia video card driver DISABLES the XFX GeForce 7600GS video card's HDMI output. The XFX GeForce 7600GS's video card's component outputs remain enabled, so I CAN watch TV using the Samsung LCD TV's component inputs, but my ability to enjoy the full benefits of 1080p video via HDMI is lost by the disabling of the nVidia based video card's HDMI outputs when the computer wakes from sleep with the Samsung LCD TV powered off.

My question is: Is there an nVidia driver available that DOESN'T disable the XFX GeForce 7600GS with HDMI video card's HDMI outputs when connected to a display via HDMI when the display is powered OFF?

I have tried several different nVidia drivers and they all seem to disable the video card's HDMI outputs under the above scenario. I am currently using nVidia driver 163.69, which is NOT the latest driver, only because I have the audio signal going into the XFX GeForce 7600 GS with HDMI via S/PDIF and later nVidia drivers don't support S/PDIF.

I know there is a hardware product named HDMIFix manufactured by a German company named Spatz-Tech that solves this problem by interposing a piece of hardware in between the video card's HDMI output and the display's HDMI input that "spoofs" the video card by making it think the display is always powered ON even when the display is powered OFF (by presenting the display device's EDID to the video card even when the display is powered off), but this hardware product costs about $300 which is a little steep for me. I was hoping that nVidia had a cheaper software solution to this EDID "handshake" problem, or at least a driver that doesn't automatically disable the video card's HDMI output with a failed display EDID "handshake".

Any other known software workarounds to this failed-video-card-dislay-EDID-handshake-causing-video-card-HDMI-output-disabling problem? Any ideas? Thanks in advance for your advice.
Dear nVidia driver technical support people/experts:



I built a computer using an nVidia based video card (XFX GeForce 7600GS with HDMI) with the HDMI output connected to my Samsung 1080p LCD TV display HDMI input. I am using Microsoft Vista Home Premium SP1 as the operating system so I can use Vista's Media Center to automatically wake from sleep mode (S3) and record scheduled TV shows from the computer's TV tuner card with the Samsung TV powered OFF when I am not home.



My problem is that when the computer wakes to record TV shows as scheduled with the Samsung LCD TV powered OFF, the EDID "handshake" between the nVidia based video card's HDMI output and the Samsung LCD TV's HDMI input fails because the Samsung LCD TV is powered OFF and the nVidia video card driver DISABLES the XFX GeForce 7600GS video card's HDMI output. The XFX GeForce 7600GS's video card's component outputs remain enabled, so I CAN watch TV using the Samsung LCD TV's component inputs, but my ability to enjoy the full benefits of 1080p video via HDMI is lost by the disabling of the nVidia based video card's HDMI outputs when the computer wakes from sleep with the Samsung LCD TV powered off.



My question is: Is there an nVidia driver available that DOESN'T disable the XFX GeForce 7600GS with HDMI video card's HDMI outputs when connected to a display via HDMI when the display is powered OFF?



I have tried several different nVidia drivers and they all seem to disable the video card's HDMI outputs under the above scenario. I am currently using nVidia driver 163.69, which is NOT the latest driver, only because I have the audio signal going into the XFX GeForce 7600 GS with HDMI via S/PDIF and later nVidia drivers don't support S/PDIF.



I know there is a hardware product named HDMIFix manufactured by a German company named Spatz-Tech that solves this problem by interposing a piece of hardware in between the video card's HDMI output and the display's HDMI input that "spoofs" the video card by making it think the display is always powered ON even when the display is powered OFF (by presenting the display device's EDID to the video card even when the display is powered off), but this hardware product costs about $300 which is a little steep for me. I was hoping that nVidia had a cheaper software solution to this EDID "handshake" problem, or at least a driver that doesn't automatically disable the video card's HDMI output with a failed display EDID "handshake".



Any other known software workarounds to this failed-video-card-dislay-EDID-handshake-causing-video-card-HDMI-output-disabling problem? Any ideas? Thanks in advance for your advice.

#1
Posted 02/12/2009 05:23 PM   
[url="http://www.xpmediacentre.com.au/community/vista-media-center-software/20373-vmc-dvi-hdmi-blank-screen-after-tv-power-off-fix.html"]http://www.xpmediacentre.com.au/community/...er-off-fix.html[/url]

i havent tried it myself yet but im having the same issues as you are and this guy seems to have a workaround. im about to try this myself. I'll let you know how I go.

I was hoping the BIOS setting "repost video after s3 resume" would fix this issue but it appears that it does not. Lets hope this hack does.
http://www.xpmediacentre.com.au/community/...er-off-fix.html



i havent tried it myself yet but im having the same issues as you are and this guy seems to have a workaround. im about to try this myself. I'll let you know how I go.



I was hoping the BIOS setting "repost video after s3 resume" would fix this issue but it appears that it does not. Lets hope this hack does.

#2
Posted 03/14/2009 11:30 PM   
I am having the same issue described with Nvidia 295 drivers installed on an Acer Revo ION win 7 64bit machine.
After wakeup from sleep, the hdmi audio is disabled.

Has anyone managed to resolve this issue? any help would be appreciated.
I am having the same issue described with Nvidia 295 drivers installed on an Acer Revo ION win 7 64bit machine.

After wakeup from sleep, the hdmi audio is disabled.



Has anyone managed to resolve this issue? any help would be appreciated.

#3
Posted 06/16/2012 05:42 AM   
If anyone is still monitoring this thread or stumbles on it in the future I was told by Nvidia tech support that this and similar problems are how HDMI works. The sending device (in this case the video card) must "handshake" with the remote device (and I guess the handshake request is resent at some interval or creates a permanent path to the devices it's connected to). If the handshake is lost then the sending device will disable the HDMI output until some event causes it to send a new handshake request. If that request is not responded to (the downstream device is off, in standby, or connected to another device) then the device will once again suspend sending the HDMI signal. The only way that a Windows PC will resend the handshake in its normal configuration is to reboot (though it should do it on awake from sleep too...the caveat being that if the downstream device isn't on or in the correct mode the PC won't receive a response and will suspend the HDMI output again). While researching this problem I did find a thread that has a link to a program that apparently causes the PC to tell the video card to send a handshake request (here: http://missingremote.com/forums/fix-hdmi-audio-disappearing-resume-standby). but I didn't download it or try it so your guess is as good as mine as to if it will work. It would be nice if Microsoft or Nvidia could give us a properly engineered and certified "fix" for this because I see threads about this and similar problems in threads all over the world wide wait.
If anyone is still monitoring this thread or stumbles on it in the future I was told by Nvidia tech support that this and similar problems are how HDMI works. The sending device (in this case the video card) must "handshake" with the remote device (and I guess the handshake request is resent at some interval or creates a permanent path to the devices it's connected to). If the handshake is lost then the sending device will disable the HDMI output until some event causes it to send a new handshake request. If that request is not responded to (the downstream device is off, in standby, or connected to another device) then the device will once again suspend sending the HDMI signal. The only way that a Windows PC will resend the handshake in its normal configuration is to reboot (though it should do it on awake from sleep too...the caveat being that if the downstream device isn't on or in the correct mode the PC won't receive a response and will suspend the HDMI output again). While researching this problem I did find a thread that has a link to a program that apparently causes the PC to tell the video card to send a handshake request (here: http://missingremote.com/forums/fix-hdmi-audio-disappearing-resume-standby). but I didn't download it or try it so your guess is as good as mine as to if it will work. It would be nice if Microsoft or Nvidia could give us a properly engineered and certified "fix" for this because I see threads about this and similar problems in threads all over the world wide wait.

#4
Posted 09/22/2013 12:56 PM   
hdmi handshakes are sent upon device detection, which is triggered by pin 19 of the cable.
hdmi handshakes are sent upon device detection, which is triggered by pin 19 of the cable.



In Memory of Chris "ChrisRay" Arthington, 1982-2010

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#5
Posted 09/22/2013 01:58 PM   
[quote="Sora"]hdmi handshakes are sent upon device detection, which is triggered by pin 19 of the cable.[/quote] My understanding is, based on nvidia tech support's comments, the card will not redetect a device if it was turned off while connected to the card's hdmi connection until the PC is rebooted. If this isn't correct then: 1) NVIDIA needs to train their tech support people better 2) please point me to a thread or site with the fix to this problem because Dell and Microsoft are of no help with this problem either (and a search of the internet yields lots of posts on the Microsoft site, and other tech support sites, going back all the way to Windows Vista).
Sora said:hdmi handshakes are sent upon device detection, which is triggered by pin 19 of the cable.


My understanding is, based on nvidia tech support's comments, the card will not redetect a device if it was turned off while connected to the card's hdmi connection until the PC is rebooted. If this isn't correct then:

1) NVIDIA needs to train their tech support people better

2) please point me to a thread or site with the fix to this problem because Dell and Microsoft are of no help with this problem either (and a search of the internet yields lots of posts on the Microsoft site, and other tech support sites, going back all the way to Windows Vista).

#6
Posted 09/26/2013 06:44 PM   
PS: This problem is not limited only to the Windows PC world, Mac users also have had the same problem. This problem is apparently so pervasive that in the commercial/Pro world Geffen (and others) have built an inline device designed to fool the HDMI transmitting device into believing it is still connected to the device downstream when that device is turned off or switched to another device/output. [url]http://www.gefen.com/kvm/ext-hdmi-edidp.jsp?prod_id=8005[/url] [url]http://www.connectpro.com/prod_vid_ddcHDMI.html[/url] This all appears to be an EDID (Extended display identification data) problem (which is just one of the many pain in the neck "features" designed into HDMI)
PS: This problem is not limited only to the Windows PC world, Mac users also have had the same problem. This problem is apparently so pervasive that in the commercial/Pro world Geffen (and others) have built an inline device designed to fool the HDMI transmitting device into believing it is still connected to the device downstream when that device is turned off or switched to another device/output.

http://www.gefen.com/kvm/ext-hdmi-edidp.jsp?prod_id=8005

http://www.connectpro.com/prod_vid_ddcHDMI.html

This all appears to be an EDID (Extended display identification data) problem (which is just one of the many pain in the neck "features" designed into HDMI)

#7
Posted 09/26/2013 06:54 PM   
PSS: I sent an email to the chief tech guy at a major Projector Manufacturer with a question on this issue. Here's are correspondence (He' a Steve also): "Steve, I was trying to think of who I know that might be an HDMI expert and you came to mind. I have a Dell XPS8500 PC (NVIDIA GT640 Video card) connected to one of a Sony Receiver's HDMI switch inputs and then that device feeds a Samsung HDTV. As I've been updating the NVIDIA Video drivers I've started noticing that if I turned off the receiver or switched sources, upon re-selecting the PC the HDMI output would either be corrupted or missing. An internet search seems to indicate this problem is so widespread that a number of manufacturers are building inline HDMI emulators to fool the PC into believing it is connected to the downstream device no matter what. Is this the only real "fix" for this problem or do you have "something up your sleeve" to get around this without adding hardware and cables? I guess this is some kind of EDID and/or DRM problem (thanks HDMI designers!! :( ) Thanks for any help/advice, Steve Ewing (old, fat, retired guy in Florida)" His Response: "Hi Steve, I don't have much in the way of good news for you... We have been seeing more and more video drivers and machines that seem to be putting some sort of HDCP on the HDMI signal primarily Apple and Dell. My suggestion would be to contact Dell an NVidia to see if thats the case. Most often The chip makers refer you back to the pc maker. The only sure fix I know of is the Extron EDID101 for $150 which sets the resolution at a fixed output so EDID is not an issue. You might check with SOny as well to see if maybe they have firmware updates. I know Onkyo puts them out on a regular basis. Good Luck! Steve" The HDCP he refers to is "High-bandwidth Digital Content Protection" which is part of, or in addition to DRM (Digital Rights Management), which all gets tied together somehow with EDID as part of the HDMI format.
PSS: I sent an email to the chief tech guy at a major Projector Manufacturer with a question on this issue.

Here's are correspondence (He' a Steve also):

"Steve,

I was trying to think of who I know that might be an HDMI expert and you came to mind.

I have a Dell XPS8500 PC (NVIDIA GT640 Video card) connected to one of a Sony Receiver's HDMI switch inputs and then that device feeds a Samsung HDTV. As I've been updating the NVIDIA Video drivers I've started noticing that if I turned off the receiver or switched sources, upon re-selecting the PC the HDMI output would either be corrupted or missing. An internet search seems to indicate this problem is so widespread that a number of manufacturers are building inline HDMI emulators to fool the PC into believing it is connected to the downstream device no matter what. Is this the only real "fix" for this problem or do you have "something up your sleeve" to get around this without adding hardware and cables? I guess this is some kind of EDID and/or DRM problem (thanks HDMI designers!! :( )

Thanks for any help/advice,

Steve Ewing (old, fat, retired guy in Florida)"

His Response:

"Hi Steve,

I don't have much in the way of good news for you...
We have been seeing more and more video drivers and machines that seem to be putting some sort of HDCP on the HDMI signal primarily Apple and Dell. My suggestion would be to contact Dell an NVidia to see if thats the case. Most often The chip makers refer you back to the pc maker. The only sure fix I know of is the Extron EDID101 for $150 which sets the resolution at a fixed output so EDID is not an issue. You might check with SOny as well to see if maybe they have firmware updates. I know Onkyo puts them out on a regular basis.

Good Luck!

Steve"

The HDCP he refers to is "High-bandwidth Digital Content Protection" which is part of, or in addition to DRM (Digital Rights Management), which all gets tied together somehow with EDID as part of the HDMI format.

#8
Posted 09/26/2013 10:15 PM   
My system is a Dell XPS8500 Windows 8 x64 Nvidia GT 640 Video Card connected to a: Samsung 37"HDTV via a Sony 5.1 receiver It's my understanding that if the downstream device isn't doing something to keep the EDID/HDCP handshake alive then the HDMI output of the video card is going to be shut off (apparently especially in Dell and Apple/Mac PCs, which makes me think this may be a PC bios "thing"). That is the reason so many of the Pro AV companies are building the inline HDMI emulators mentioned in the previous posts.
My system is a Dell XPS8500
Windows 8 x64
Nvidia GT 640 Video Card

connected to a:
Samsung 37"HDTV
via a Sony 5.1 receiver

It's my understanding that if the downstream device isn't doing something to keep the EDID/HDCP handshake alive then the HDMI output of the video card is going to be shut off (apparently especially in Dell and Apple/Mac PCs, which makes me think this may be a PC bios "thing"). That is the reason so many of the Pro AV companies are building the inline HDMI emulators mentioned in the previous posts.

#9
Posted 09/28/2013 01:38 AM   
the sony receiver is the problem, it does not maintain device connected signalling via passthrough.
the sony receiver is the problem, it does not maintain device connected signalling via passthrough.



In Memory of Chris "ChrisRay" Arthington, 1982-2010

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#10
Posted 09/28/2013 04:52 PM   
Since I'm not going to replace my receiver to fix this "glitch" (and I suspect most others aren't going to replace theirs either) I'm not going to let Dell and NVIDIA off the hook. There should be a way to "force" the video card to attempt to reconnect to a downstream device other than a reboot, either with a timed command to attempt to reconnect or a keyboard shortcut. In an earlier post I posted a link to a page that is suppose to have a software fix, but no one should have to download an unproven program from a random site to resolve this problem, nor should we have to buy a $150.00+ device to fool the PC into believing it's always connected. If the person at the site listed truly has written a "work around" for this then Nvidia or Dell (and any other PC or Video card manufacturer) ought to be able to do the same thing. My current work around for this is to put the PC in hybrid sleep before switching to something else. If I mess up and accidentally forget the proper order or I bump the mouse/keyboard and the PC doesn't see anything and disables the HDMI output then instead of forcing a "hardboot" with the power button I use the following keyboard shortcuts to make my PC restart normally (this works for Windows 8, I'm not sure about other versions of Windows, I know XP only requires Alt-F4 and then it displays its shutdown popup window). The Sequence: Hold down the "Windows" key and press "D" (Win-D) and then hold down the "Alt" key and press "F4" (Alt-F4), then press the down arrow key once, and then the "Enter" key. That should cause any Windows 8 PC to restart (I suggest trying it with the PC on and the desktop visible so everyone can see what that sequence is doing before trying it "blind").
Since I'm not going to replace my receiver to fix this "glitch" (and I suspect most others aren't going to replace theirs either) I'm not going to let Dell and NVIDIA off the hook. There should be a way to "force" the video card to attempt to reconnect to a downstream device other than a reboot, either with a timed command to attempt to reconnect or a keyboard shortcut. In an earlier post I posted a link to a page that is suppose to have a software fix, but no one should have to download an unproven program from a random site to resolve this problem, nor should we have to buy a $150.00+ device to fool the PC into believing it's always connected. If the person at the site listed truly has written a "work around" for this then Nvidia or Dell (and any other PC or Video card manufacturer) ought to be able to do the same thing.

My current work around for this is to put the PC in hybrid sleep before switching to something else. If I mess up and accidentally forget the proper order or I bump the mouse/keyboard and the PC doesn't see anything and disables the HDMI output then instead of forcing a "hardboot" with the power button I use the following keyboard shortcuts to make my PC restart normally (this works for Windows 8, I'm not sure about other versions of Windows, I know XP only requires Alt-F4 and then it displays its shutdown popup window). The Sequence: Hold down the "Windows" key and press "D" (Win-D) and then hold down the "Alt" key and press "F4" (Alt-F4), then press the down arrow key once, and then the "Enter" key. That should cause any Windows 8 PC to restart (I suggest trying it with the PC on and the desktop visible so everyone can see what that sequence is doing before trying it "blind").

#11
Posted 09/28/2013 08:27 PM   
instead of replacing, why not just try updating the recievers firmware?
instead of replacing, why not just try updating the recievers firmware?



In Memory of Chris "ChrisRay" Arthington, 1982-2010

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#12
Posted 09/29/2013 07:06 AM   
Sony did not include update capability with the receiver I have (or if there is a way they don't have an update or admit to one existing)
Sony did not include update capability with the receiver I have (or if there is a way they don't have an update or admit to one existing)

#13
Posted 10/01/2013 04:56 AM   
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