15.17 kills Velociraptor RAID
  1 / 2    
And apparently I'm not alone:
[url="http://www.evga.com/forums/tm.asp?m=403275&mpage=1&key="]http://www.evga.com/forums/tm.asp?m=403275&mpage=1&key=[/url]

Seems to be specific to the Raptor/Velociraptor thus far, but the 15.17 driver results in immediate RAID failure, which quickly corrupts Vista.

Whatever the driver is doing (setting/corrupting a drive flag presumably), it also persists through warm boots. If I don't completely shut things off, the corruption will continue even with the 9.63 driver. A cold boot quickly solves it.

The easy solution for now is to not use 15.17, or let Windows Update install the updated driver, which appears to be the same.
And apparently I'm not alone:

http://www.evga.com/forums/tm.asp?m=403275&mpage=1&key=



Seems to be specific to the Raptor/Velociraptor thus far, but the 15.17 driver results in immediate RAID failure, which quickly corrupts Vista.



Whatever the driver is doing (setting/corrupting a drive flag presumably), it also persists through warm boots. If I don't completely shut things off, the corruption will continue even with the 9.63 driver. A cold boot quickly solves it.



The easy solution for now is to not use 15.17, or let Windows Update install the updated driver, which appears to be the same.

#1
Posted 06/20/2008 04:40 PM   
I had to read that whole thread just to discover that some[i][b]one[/b][/i] had a problem with Windows Update (who with nVidia hardware doesn't) and a second person had a "me too".

I read it because I run the new software with Raptor-X drives in RAID0. Unlike the two people in that thread who mention it, mine works fine. Even on top of the Windows 2000 that was posted as the Vista x64 package the first day.

780i updated to P05P, running a Q6600 at 3564MHz, RAM at 1080 MHz, 2x150 GB Raptor-X in RAID0, one 75 GB Raptor, one Caviar 250 GB drive.

But then, I never install the NAM, either...
I had to read that whole thread just to discover that someone had a problem with Windows Update (who with nVidia hardware doesn't) and a second person had a "me too".



I read it because I run the new software with Raptor-X drives in RAID0. Unlike the two people in that thread who mention it, mine works fine. Even on top of the Windows 2000 that was posted as the Vista x64 package the first day.



780i updated to P05P, running a Q6600 at 3564MHz, RAM at 1080 MHz, 2x150 GB Raptor-X in RAID0, one 75 GB Raptor, one Caviar 250 GB drive.



But then, I never install the NAM, either...

Intel Siler DX79SI Desktop Extreme | Intel Core i7-3820 Sandy Bridge-Extreme | DangerDen M6 and Koolance MVR-40s w/Black Ice Stealths | 32 GB Mushkin PC3-12800LV | NVIDIA GTX 660 Ti SLI | PNY GTX 470 | 24 GB RAMDisk (C:\Temp\Temp) | 120 GB Intel Cherryville SSDs (OS and UserData)| 530 GB Western Digital VelociRaptor SATA 2 RAID0 (C:\Games\) | 60 GB G2 SSDs (XP Pro and Linux) | 3 TB Western Digital USB-3 MyBook (Archive) | LG BP40NS20 USB ODD | LG IPS236 Monitor | LogiTech X-530 Speakers | Plantronics GameCom 780 Headphones | Cooler Master UCP 1100 | Cooler Master HAF XB | Windows 7 Pro x64 SP1

Stock is Extreme now

#2
Posted 06/20/2008 07:45 PM   
I should have mentioned that this is on a 790i...That post I linked above is in the 790i forums...
I should have mentioned that this is on a 790i...That post I linked above is in the 790i forums...

#3
Posted 06/21/2008 12:52 AM   
This is happening to me ATM, 1 dead VelociRaptor so far and still can't run RAID 0 with them. I'm starting to think this is WD's fault.
This is happening to me ATM, 1 dead VelociRaptor so far and still can't run RAID 0 with them. I'm starting to think this is WD's fault.

#4
Posted 07/03/2008 04:45 PM   
I fought this exact problem for the last week. I have 2x74gb raptors running in Raid 0 which I was upgrading to 2x300gb velociraptors on a EVGA 790i Ultra motherboard running Vistax64.

What I found was this...

The issue is Native Command Queueing(NCQ).

When you install either of the following:

The driver from windows update:

NVIDIA Corporation driver update for NVIDIA nForce Serial ATA Controller
Download size: 321 KB
You may need to restart your computer for this update to take effect.
Update type: Optional

or

15.17 nforce drivers provided by nvidia

The Velociraptors running in Raid 0 would corrupt right after the reboot to complete installation of the drivers. The 74gb raptors (that I believe do not support NCQ) ran fine in raid 0.

Thankfully if I set my system up as follows I could tweak some settings on the velociraptor drives and see if I could get the raid problems to vanish.

OS: Windows Vista x64
Nforce 15.17 Drivers
C Drive: 2x74 GB Raptors in (Raid 0) ( Boot Device / Windows )
D Drive: 2x300 GB Velociraptors (Raid 0)

What I found was if I went into the device manager of windows and found the entry "NVIDIA nForce Serial ATA Controller" and disabled "command queuing" under each of the port tabs for the ports connected to the velociraptors the raid errors would stop.

Unfortunately I've been unable to determine if it's possible to turn off NCQ during installation of the 15.17 drivers and of course if you want to boot off of them that's a problem. Your drives will corrupt the moment you install the driver from windows update or the 15.17 drivers and you can't get in to windows to disable NCQ.

As of this posting a quick check of Nvidia's driver wizard [url="http://www.nvidia.com/Download/index.aspx?lang=en-us"]here[/url] no longer points to the 15.17 drivers but to the 9.64 nforce drivers. Perhaps they pulled the 15.17 drivers?
I fought this exact problem for the last week. I have 2x74gb raptors running in Raid 0 which I was upgrading to 2x300gb velociraptors on a EVGA 790i Ultra motherboard running Vistax64.



What I found was this...



The issue is Native Command Queueing(NCQ).



When you install either of the following:



The driver from windows update:



NVIDIA Corporation driver update for NVIDIA nForce Serial ATA Controller

Download size: 321 KB

You may need to restart your computer for this update to take effect.

Update type: Optional



or



15.17 nforce drivers provided by nvidia



The Velociraptors running in Raid 0 would corrupt right after the reboot to complete installation of the drivers. The 74gb raptors (that I believe do not support NCQ) ran fine in raid 0.



Thankfully if I set my system up as follows I could tweak some settings on the velociraptor drives and see if I could get the raid problems to vanish.



OS: Windows Vista x64

Nforce 15.17 Drivers

C Drive: 2x74 GB Raptors in (Raid 0) ( Boot Device / Windows )

D Drive: 2x300 GB Velociraptors (Raid 0)



What I found was if I went into the device manager of windows and found the entry "NVIDIA nForce Serial ATA Controller" and disabled "command queuing" under each of the port tabs for the ports connected to the velociraptors the raid errors would stop.



Unfortunately I've been unable to determine if it's possible to turn off NCQ during installation of the 15.17 drivers and of course if you want to boot off of them that's a problem. Your drives will corrupt the moment you install the driver from windows update or the 15.17 drivers and you can't get in to windows to disable NCQ.



As of this posting a quick check of Nvidia's driver wizard here no longer points to the 15.17 drivers but to the 9.64 nforce drivers. Perhaps they pulled the 15.17 drivers?

#5
Posted 07/03/2008 05:24 PM   
[quote name='wweidner' date='Jul 3 2008, 01:24 PM']The issue is Native Command Queueing(NCQ)...

...The Velociraptors running in Raid 0 would corrupt right after the reboot to complete installation of the drivers. The 74gb raptors (that I believe do not support NCQ) ran fine in raid 0...[/quote]
The drivers, indeed, have been pulled a second time. Quite possibly for the hubbub caused by both mis-posting and the string of complaints.

I'm not doubting that you may have had problems, and I have found myself that NCQ can cause problems, but I do question two points:

I run NCQ on Caviar, Raptor and Raptor-X without incident, so NCQ in and of itself may not be directly to blame. Unless — unless you mix both NCQ and non-NCQ HDDs on the RAID drives. Then performance in particular, and reliability on occasion (which really boils down to [i][b]un[/b][/i]reliable in any failure), does indeed suffer. The combination of the two drives the MOBO driver insane.

The second point is that Raptors come non-NCQ. Hmm...none of my Caviars made since Summer 06, and none of my 10K drives at all, are non-NCQ. You'd probably have to have one of the first Raptors out the door to have one without, at least with the 74GBs.

Can't vouch for the really small ones that first came out, though...
[quote name='wweidner' date='Jul 3 2008, 01:24 PM']The issue is Native Command Queueing(NCQ)...



...The Velociraptors running in Raid 0 would corrupt right after the reboot to complete installation of the drivers. The 74gb raptors (that I believe do not support NCQ) ran fine in raid 0...

The drivers, indeed, have been pulled a second time. Quite possibly for the hubbub caused by both mis-posting and the string of complaints.



I'm not doubting that you may have had problems, and I have found myself that NCQ can cause problems, but I do question two points:



I run NCQ on Caviar, Raptor and Raptor-X without incident, so NCQ in and of itself may not be directly to blame. Unless — unless you mix both NCQ and non-NCQ HDDs on the RAID drives. Then performance in particular, and reliability on occasion (which really boils down to unreliable in any failure), does indeed suffer. The combination of the two drives the MOBO driver insane.



The second point is that Raptors come non-NCQ. Hmm...none of my Caviars made since Summer 06, and none of my 10K drives at all, are non-NCQ. You'd probably have to have one of the first Raptors out the door to have one without, at least with the 74GBs.



Can't vouch for the really small ones that first came out, though...

Intel Siler DX79SI Desktop Extreme | Intel Core i7-3820 Sandy Bridge-Extreme | DangerDen M6 and Koolance MVR-40s w/Black Ice Stealths | 32 GB Mushkin PC3-12800LV | NVIDIA GTX 660 Ti SLI | PNY GTX 470 | 24 GB RAMDisk (C:\Temp\Temp) | 120 GB Intel Cherryville SSDs (OS and UserData)| 530 GB Western Digital VelociRaptor SATA 2 RAID0 (C:\Games\) | 60 GB G2 SSDs (XP Pro and Linux) | 3 TB Western Digital USB-3 MyBook (Archive) | LG BP40NS20 USB ODD | LG IPS236 Monitor | LogiTech X-530 Speakers | Plantronics GameCom 780 Headphones | Cooler Master UCP 1100 | Cooler Master HAF XB | Windows 7 Pro x64 SP1

Stock is Extreme now

#6
Posted 07/03/2008 08:16 PM   
I agree with your assessment.

I did not mean to imply that the problem was Nvidia's NCQ implementation rather that it appeared to be an issue with NCQ compatability between the Velociraptors and the latest 15.17 nForce drivers.

A quick wikipedia search on the raptor drives ([url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Western_Digital_Raptor#WD740"]link[/url]) gives a bit of history on the 74gb raptors which indeed have gone through several revisions. The first revision which were made for the first couple years used TCQ and not NCQ.

Before I tried these Velociraptors I tried 2 raptor X drives which unfortunately were a bit too loud for my personal tastes. Those in the same motherboard with the same drivers in Raid 0 worked fine and I can only assume were running with command queuing enabled as I didn't check.

To me it really is irrelevant what the compatibility issue is just that it seems in my case to no longer occur when command queuing is disabled.

If people are wondering if they are having the same issue I was having they would immediately know it because if your booting from the drive it it will either hang, BSOD or complain that it can't find a file. If your not booting from the drive you can expect Media Shield to start popping notification windows in the bottom right corner of your screen telling you that there has been a raid access error whenever your using the drive.
I agree with your assessment.



I did not mean to imply that the problem was Nvidia's NCQ implementation rather that it appeared to be an issue with NCQ compatability between the Velociraptors and the latest 15.17 nForce drivers.



A quick wikipedia search on the raptor drives (link) gives a bit of history on the 74gb raptors which indeed have gone through several revisions. The first revision which were made for the first couple years used TCQ and not NCQ.



Before I tried these Velociraptors I tried 2 raptor X drives which unfortunately were a bit too loud for my personal tastes. Those in the same motherboard with the same drivers in Raid 0 worked fine and I can only assume were running with command queuing enabled as I didn't check.



To me it really is irrelevant what the compatibility issue is just that it seems in my case to no longer occur when command queuing is disabled.



If people are wondering if they are having the same issue I was having they would immediately know it because if your booting from the drive it it will either hang, BSOD or complain that it can't find a file. If your not booting from the drive you can expect Media Shield to start popping notification windows in the bottom right corner of your screen telling you that there has been a raid access error whenever your using the drive.

#7
Posted 07/04/2008 12:27 AM   
[quote name='wweidner' date='Jul 3 2008, 08:27 PM']...To me it really is irrelevant what the compatibility issue is just that it seems in my case to no longer occur when command queuing is disabled...[/quote]
Fair enough.

But I think I've spent too long on this thread...

[quote]...If people are wondering if they are having the same issue I was having they would immediately know it because if your booting from the drive it it will either hang, BSOD or complain that it can't find a file. If your not booting from the drive you can expect Media Shield to start popping notification windows in the bottom right corner of your screen telling you that there has been a raid access error whenever your using the drive.[/quote]
...cause I just lost the Caviar RAID with XP installed and it's not even letting the Vista disk get past RAID detection.

Is it all right to say, "I hate you now" without it being taken personally?...
[quote name='wweidner' date='Jul 3 2008, 08:27 PM']...To me it really is irrelevant what the compatibility issue is just that it seems in my case to no longer occur when command queuing is disabled...

Fair enough.



But I think I've spent too long on this thread...



...If people are wondering if they are having the same issue I was having they would immediately know it because if your booting from the drive it it will either hang, BSOD or complain that it can't find a file. If your not booting from the drive you can expect Media Shield to start popping notification windows in the bottom right corner of your screen telling you that there has been a raid access error whenever your using the drive.


...cause I just lost the Caviar RAID with XP installed and it's not even letting the Vista disk get past RAID detection.



Is it all right to say, "I hate you now" without it being taken personally?...

Intel Siler DX79SI Desktop Extreme | Intel Core i7-3820 Sandy Bridge-Extreme | DangerDen M6 and Koolance MVR-40s w/Black Ice Stealths | 32 GB Mushkin PC3-12800LV | NVIDIA GTX 660 Ti SLI | PNY GTX 470 | 24 GB RAMDisk (C:\Temp\Temp) | 120 GB Intel Cherryville SSDs (OS and UserData)| 530 GB Western Digital VelociRaptor SATA 2 RAID0 (C:\Games\) | 60 GB G2 SSDs (XP Pro and Linux) | 3 TB Western Digital USB-3 MyBook (Archive) | LG BP40NS20 USB ODD | LG IPS236 Monitor | LogiTech X-530 Speakers | Plantronics GameCom 780 Headphones | Cooler Master UCP 1100 | Cooler Master HAF XB | Windows 7 Pro x64 SP1

Stock is Extreme now

#8
Posted 07/04/2008 11:52 AM   
[quote name='jaafaman' date='Jul 4 2008, 05:52 AM']Fair enough.

But I think I've spent too long on this thread...
...cause I just lost the Caviar RAID with XP installed and it's not even letting the Vista disk get past RAID detection.

Is it all right to say, "I hate you now" without it being taken personally?...
[right][snapback]405007[/snapback][/right]
[/quote]

Absolutely! As a side note I've now been running the following version of the nforce drivers for 2 days now with NCQ enabled without issue.

nForce DriverWHQL Certified
Version: 9.64
Release Date: March 18, 2008
Operating System: Windows Vista 64-bit
Language: U.S. English
File Size: 54.1 MB
[quote name='jaafaman' date='Jul 4 2008, 05:52 AM']Fair enough.



But I think I've spent too long on this thread...

...cause I just lost the Caviar RAID with XP installed and it's not even letting the Vista disk get past RAID detection.



Is it all right to say, "I hate you now" without it being taken personally?...

[snapback]405007[/snapback]






Absolutely! As a side note I've now been running the following version of the nforce drivers for 2 days now with NCQ enabled without issue.



nForce DriverWHQL Certified

Version: 9.64

Release Date: March 18, 2008

Operating System: Windows Vista 64-bit

Language: U.S. English

File Size: 54.1 MB

#9
Posted 07/04/2008 06:38 PM   
Exactly what I was...running...before..."updating"...
Exactly what I was...running...before..."updating"...

Intel Siler DX79SI Desktop Extreme | Intel Core i7-3820 Sandy Bridge-Extreme | DangerDen M6 and Koolance MVR-40s w/Black Ice Stealths | 32 GB Mushkin PC3-12800LV | NVIDIA GTX 660 Ti SLI | PNY GTX 470 | 24 GB RAMDisk (C:\Temp\Temp) | 120 GB Intel Cherryville SSDs (OS and UserData)| 530 GB Western Digital VelociRaptor SATA 2 RAID0 (C:\Games\) | 60 GB G2 SSDs (XP Pro and Linux) | 3 TB Western Digital USB-3 MyBook (Archive) | LG BP40NS20 USB ODD | LG IPS236 Monitor | LogiTech X-530 Speakers | Plantronics GameCom 780 Headphones | Cooler Master UCP 1100 | Cooler Master HAF XB | Windows 7 Pro x64 SP1

Stock is Extreme now

#10
Posted 07/04/2008 08:48 PM   
Hi friends!
I´ve also been struck by the pesky corruption problem. However it only happens when i OC above 1800MHz on the FSB. Vista seems to handle this a tad better than XP. I´m currently reinstalling.... guess why :P But before that i was on 15.17.
I´ll try the 9.64. I use ordinary raptors, not the new ones. So the problems are not just bound to the velociraptors. Hopefully i will mount my three new Mtron7500 128GB SSD during next week or so, hoping that the problems will go away.

I´ve also found that tRfc can affect corruption if set too low. There is a whole thread on XS regarding this issue.

Cheers friends /wave.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':wave:' />
Hi friends!

I´ve also been struck by the pesky corruption problem. However it only happens when i OC above 1800MHz on the FSB. Vista seems to handle this a tad better than XP. I´m currently reinstalling.... guess why :P But before that i was on 15.17.

I´ll try the 9.64. I use ordinary raptors, not the new ones. So the problems are not just bound to the velociraptors. Hopefully i will mount my three new Mtron7500 128GB SSD during next week or so, hoping that the problems will go away.



I´ve also found that tRfc can affect corruption if set too low. There is a whole thread on XS regarding this issue.



Cheers friends /wave.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':wave:' />

#11
Posted 07/05/2008 09:21 AM   
The OC corruption is not related to this problem. This is completely a driver issue, and occurs even when not OC'd..Seems like the NCQ incompatability makes the msot sense. I've seen this before with other drives as well. Obviously they pulled 15.17 for a reason, so we'll see whats next.

Bad thing is that I need to do a complete backup just to test, since losing everything is the likely outcome of a bad driver in this case...
The OC corruption is not related to this problem. This is completely a driver issue, and occurs even when not OC'd..Seems like the NCQ incompatability makes the msot sense. I've seen this before with other drives as well. Obviously they pulled 15.17 for a reason, so we'll see whats next.



Bad thing is that I need to do a complete backup just to test, since losing everything is the likely outcome of a bad driver in this case...

#12
Posted 07/08/2008 02:18 AM   
[quote]had a problem with Windows Update[/quote]

right; just set the nforce driver from WU to hidden. running wd-adfd 74gb raid0 with absolutly zero probs under vistax86sp1 and the nforce version 15.17. thats with a striker 2 nse /whistling.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':whistling:' />
had a problem with Windows Update




right; just set the nforce driver from WU to hidden. running wd-adfd 74gb raid0 with absolutly zero probs under vistax86sp1 and the nforce version 15.17. thats with a striker 2 nse /whistling.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':whistling:' />

#13
Posted 07/09/2008 07:22 AM   
[quote name='me666' date='Jul 9 2008, 01:22 AM']right; just set the nforce driver from WU to hidden. running wd-adfd 74gb raid0 with absolutly zero probs under vistax86sp1 and the nforce version 15.17. thats with a striker 2 nse  /whistling.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':whistling:' />
[right][snapback]407769[/snapback][/right]
[/quote]

I run 150gb raptors just fine in RAID0, but the velociraptors just become corrupt, etc.

I used True Image 11 to clone the existing RAID0 configuration over to the Velociraptors. System reboots just fine, installs a generic driver for the hard drives, reboots and proceeds to crash and corrupt.
[quote name='me666' date='Jul 9 2008, 01:22 AM']right; just set the nforce driver from WU to hidden. running wd-adfd 74gb raid0 with absolutly zero probs under vistax86sp1 and the nforce version 15.17. thats with a striker 2 nse  /whistling.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':whistling:' />

[snapback]407769[/snapback]






I run 150gb raptors just fine in RAID0, but the velociraptors just become corrupt, etc.



I used True Image 11 to clone the existing RAID0 configuration over to the Velociraptors. System reboots just fine, installs a generic driver for the hard drives, reboots and proceeds to crash and corrupt.

#14
Posted 07/09/2008 11:17 PM   
[quote name='fhertlein2' date='Jul 10 2008, 09:17 AM']I run 150gb raptors just fine in RAID0, but the velociraptors just become corrupt, etc.

I used True Image 11 to clone the existing RAID0 configuration over to the Velociraptors. System reboots just fine, installs a generic driver for the hard drives, reboots and proceeds to crash and corrupt.
[right][snapback]408245[/snapback][/right]
[/quote]

Don't install generic drivers - use the official 9.64 nforce drivers. I used to run 120gb WD's in RAID 0 fine ok with 15.17, but would get RAID service error (corruption) when switching to RAID 0 Velociraptors.

I also used True Image 11 to clone my existing RAID 0 config over to the Velociraptors, but before I did that I installed the 9.64 nforce drivers on my existing RAID 0 config 1st before switching to the Velociraptors. It all works fine now (with command queuing switched on too)
[quote name='fhertlein2' date='Jul 10 2008, 09:17 AM']I run 150gb raptors just fine in RAID0, but the velociraptors just become corrupt, etc.



I used True Image 11 to clone the existing RAID0 configuration over to the Velociraptors. System reboots just fine, installs a generic driver for the hard drives, reboots and proceeds to crash and corrupt.

[snapback]408245[/snapback]






Don't install generic drivers - use the official 9.64 nforce drivers. I used to run 120gb WD's in RAID 0 fine ok with 15.17, but would get RAID service error (corruption) when switching to RAID 0 Velociraptors.



I also used True Image 11 to clone my existing RAID 0 config over to the Velociraptors, but before I did that I installed the 9.64 nforce drivers on my existing RAID 0 config 1st before switching to the Velociraptors. It all works fine now (with command queuing switched on too)

#15
Posted 07/31/2008 11:16 PM   
  1 / 2    
Scroll To Top