Crimson Skies: NVIDIA Fixed AvP, Now Please Fix CS Crimson Skies and Forceware
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Hey everybody,

Since the AvP thread seemed to have some luck in getting that issue fixed, I thought I'd start a new thread here for Crimson Skies. I'm going to copy and paste my correspondence with NVIDIA so that you can see what the problem is and how it's being handled so far. Please help me keep this thread active so that we can get this problem fixed! Please submit any additional information that you have regarding these issues! Let's work on this problem with the same attention that the NVIDIA community worked on the AvP problem! Write or call to NVIDIA and let them know that you would like a solution to this problem too! Thank you!!! :)

P.S. I know that in the first few exchanges I seem a bit harsh on the representative, but you know what they say about squeaky wheels getting oil...



Hello,

My issue is with garbled text graphics and frequent crashes in the game "Crimson Skies" for Windows.

This issue has been widespread amongst users of NVIDIA cards of the series 6XXX and higher.

Apparently in a Forceware driver version around 78, the game ceased to function properly when run in Direct3D accelerated mode.

I have tried all the "compatibility modes" available for the game's exe.

I have no third-party tweaking programs installed which could introduce graphical glitches or crashes. I do not overclock. I do not encounter these issues with any other game that I play on my computer with the 7800 GT.

In addition to requesting your help in resolving this issue, I would also like to request from you any technical information you have available relating to the specific causes of these problems with this specific game, "Crimson Skies". Please forward to me this data so that I can evaluate the problem as well.

Thank you.



[color=blue]Hello Karl,

Thank you for contacting NVIDIA Customer Care

I understand from your email that you are using a GeForce 7800 GT graphics card and when playing the game "Crimson Skies", you receive screen corruption.

This issue has been verified by NVIDIA and determined to be caused by a bug in the game Crimson Skies. As this issue occurs only with a particular game, I suggest that you contact the Game developer for the better performance of the game.

For further information regarding this issue, please visit the following link:
[url="http://nvidia.custhelp.com/cgi-bin/nvidia.cfg/php/enduser/std_adp.php?p_faqid=288"]http://nvidia.custhelp.com/cgi-bin/nvidia....php?p_faqid=288[/url]

I suggest that you uninstall the existing driver and install the 163.71 driver version, to troubleshoot your issue.

To download the driver, please visit the following link:
[url="http://www.nvidia.com/object/winxp_163.71.html"]http://www.nvidia.com/object/winxp_163.71.html[/url]

On the following page, click on the "Primary Download Site" URL to download the driver. To avoid download issues, if you are running any 3rd party download utilities, please disable them as they are know for occasionally causing errors with the downloads.

You will also need to update the motherboard chipset driver as well as the motherboard BIOS, for the better performance of the card.

Please feel free to contact us, if you have any further questions.

Regards,
NVIDIA Customer Care.[/color]


Hello,

Firstly, I am disappointed to see that you neglected my request for specific technical information relating to this problem.

Without specific technical information, it will be difficult for us to proceed.

Whereas I have indications from many NVIDIA customers that the problem actually lies in NVIDIA's drivers, and in fact the game will work with ATI/AMD cards, for so long as you refuse to engage me in a technical discussion I shall have no alternative but to regard my inability to play this game as a result of my owning an NVIDIA card, as opposed to a card manufactured by NVIDIA's competitors.

In the opening of your mail, you state the problem lies with the game itself. Yet in a following paragraph, you suggest that I change my drivers. These two statements are entirely inconsistent with one-another and suggest that you paid only minimal attention to my query. As a result, I must request that this correspondence be forwarded to your professional superior, who with any luck may feel inclined to offer me more assistance than you have.

In closing, let me state in no uncertain terms that I am unsatisfied with the proposed solutions you have sent to me, and am requesting further help relating to my problem from the customer support tier above your own.



[color=blue]Hello Karl,

I am sorry for the previous email. I apologize for the inconvenience this may have caused.

However, there being some known issue with that particular game since a long period, we at NVIDIA have not yet released any display driver to fix that issue. As we did not get any feedbacks or patches from Microsoft, there could not be drivers released by NVIDIA. The driver provided by me was the latest Beta driver. Therefore, I suggested you the driver to check whether the issue could be solved. I would still request you install the 163.71 drivers provided by me in the previous mail.

I will definitely forward this case to the Level 2 technicians for further investigation.

Please let me know if your issue has been resolved.

Regards,
NVIDIA Customer Care.[/color]



Thank you for your prompt response.

Whereas there is still limited technical information available to me, and as (according to various NVIDIA customers as read on internet forums) the game seemed to work until a certain point in the ForceWare update line, and the game continues to work with recent ATI cards so long as a tweak is enabled in their driver, on the basis of what I understand about the problem at this point I time I cannot recognize the total responsibility of Microsoft in this matter.

However at this point I am happy to wait for input from Level 2 technicians to see what information they may provide that will make the nature of the problem clearer. Thank you for referring this matter to them.




Hello again,

I've continued to investigate the issue with NVIDIA ForceWare's incompatibility with Crimson Skies Direct3D acceleration.

Installation of the ForceWare version 61.77 fixes the issues with the game. This ForceWare version dates from 2004. The last patch of Crimson Skies, version 1.02, dates from sometime in 2001 or 2002. Obviously, Crimson Skies worked perfectly with NVIDIA hardware, up until the point when a change was made in the ForceWare drivers that broke compatability. Therefore, on the basis of the information given to me so far, it seems that the responsibility for this problem is not "a bug in Crimson Skies" and the information that you have in your database that lists this issue as a "bug in Crimson Skies" is incorrect. It seems instead that the problem is due to NVIDIA's ForceWare drivers and, consequently, that the responsibility for offering a solution is NVIDIA's.

Please forward this correspondence to the personnel responsible for ForceWare coding and updates. Please continue correspondence with me on this issue, or refer my case to a higher level tech tier who will then continue this discussion with me.

Thank you.




[color=blue]Hello Karl,
The reason for the corruption is because the game doesn't check correctly for the support of Nonpower of two textures. The Forceware driver now have an unlimited support for Nonpow2 textures. That means we don't export the caps NONPOW2CONDITIONAL anymore. However the game misinterprets this as we don't support Pow2 and/or nonpow2 textures. Although we do feel the issue is an application issue, it is unlikely that this will be fixed through a patch since this game is 7 years old.

Regards,
NVIDIA Customer Care[/color]



Hello Manuel G, thank you for your response.

As you say, it is unlikely that the game will ever be patched again, as it is getting old and Microsoft has ceased to offer official support for it.

In a situation like this, where the developer/publisher are no longer willing or capable of patching the game, and the game is apparently not moddable (by end-users) in any significant way due to the obscure compression format in which its data is contained, I would think that the final responsibility for the game's functioning logically falls to NVIDIA and their ForceWare development team, as they are the only people who can solve this problem with NVIDIA customers.

Consider the position that customers find themselves in: the game does not function properly with recent NVIDIA hardware and drivers, and yet it does with ATI hardware and drivers, if not under default settings then with an official driver tweak. It may very well be the fault of the game's own code, but because of the logic of the situation, wouldn't you say that NVIDIA has a responsibility to see that their customers are capable of playing the game properly through a driver tweak of NVIDIA's own?

My only options, if I want to play this game properly, are either to use terribly out-of-date ForceWare drivers, thus disabling or crippling many of the qualities that I bought the card for in the first place -- or, on the other hand, my other option is to buy an ATI card next time, instead of an NVIDIA card. This is the position that an NVIDIA customer finds themself in because a ForceWare tweak for this game (and the few others with related issues) has not been developed.

Sure, objectively, it might seem as if Microsoft ought to be compelled by their customers to offer another patch for the game. But this isn't going to happen, for one reason or another. Any realistic person is capable of understanding the unlikelihood of Microsoft doing such a thing -- so surely a shrewd company such as NVIDIA will not hold any hopes for that possibility.

So, regardless of whose "fault" it is, it seems clear that the only way that a customer in my position will be satisfied is if NVIDIA "steps up" on my behalf and takes charge of the issue. Both sides, Microsoft and NVIDIA, could shirk responsibility indefinitely - but in the end, I'm an NVIDIA customer, I've a problem, and it's within the power of no-one but NVIDIA to solve the problem. While NVIDIA may have no responsibility to this particular game, surely NVIDIA feels enough responsibility to its customers to act in their interests when others fail to?

I hope that I am not coming across as argumentative. I'm only trying to explain the logic of the situation, in the hope that you'll agree with me. If it is not within the realm of your professional priveleges to influence the actions of the ForceWare development team, please forward this correspondence to someone who does have that privelege.

Thanks again.




[color=blue]Hello Karl,
I appreciate your very well thought out email. This issue has been brought up with our driver team twice and in both cases, this issue was punted back as an application issue. If our engineers are able to find an easy fix which does not break our drivers or has a potential to cause bugs with other programs, then they will indeed go ahead and provide a fix. We recently provided a workaround fix for another program which is about 5 years old called Aliens Vs. Predator 2. This game also had a bug due to changes in the specifications however our engineers were able to figure out an easy workaround which would not break the quality of the drivers, affect performance or change the compatibility with other software programs so this fix was implimented. Unfortunately, it is not possible to fix all applications issues although we would like to if possible. We apologize for the inconvenience once again this has caused you. NVIDIA has a great Developer Relations group which works proactively with software developers to provide fixes for their software. In many cases, software patches which were released by software developers for games have been as a result of assistance by our Developer Relations group who have worked with the software developers to fix issues with NVIIDA based graphics cards which are caused with the application itself.

Regards,
NVIDIA Customer Care[/color]



Hello Manuel, thanks for getting back to me.

I appreciate that the driver team(s) are making serious efforts to address the problems of NVIDIA customers. I'm by no means implying that anyone is failing to do their job. I do, however, require clarification if I'm to entirely understand your position.

As you described the problem to me:
"...That means we don't export the caps NONPOW2CONDITIONAL..."

And as we've already established, previous versions of ForceWare drivers did work with this game without flaw.

On the basis of this information, my understanding of the situation is that NVIDIA's driver code changed at a definite and identifiable point, removing the function that would "export the caps". This means that the ForceWare drivers are, on some level, capable of exporting these caps, and that the code instructing them to do so has already been developed by NVIDIA. This would mean that the code is available and it is capable of being interpreted by the ForceWare drivers.

If that is in fact the case, then I must admit that it is not clear to me how a game-specific tweak would be beyond the ability of the driver team to develop in a way that does not break the drivers or bug other games (provided that the tweak was only active during execution of the Crimson Skies game, and disabled or reverted at all other times).

I can understand that my requests must begin to wear on your patience, but if it is permissible for you to convey more specific information on why (or whether) such a tweak has been found by the driver team to be unworkable, I would appreciate it very much.

Thank you Manuel.




[b] After nearly a month with no response, I mailed this and got the last reply:[/b]

Manuel,

I've waited more than long enough for a response from you. Please place me in contact with your professional superior so that I can continue to seek assistance with this issue.

[color=blue]Hello Karl,
I am sorry for the late response. Unfortunately, there is nothing more that can be done regarding this issue as our display driver team has already looked into this issue and marked as will not fix due to the reasons I stated previously. I personally submitted this bug to our driver team when it was first reported to us several years ago and the response I gave you is the response which I received from the driver development team. I do apologize for the inconvenience this may cause however since this is an application bug and not a display driver bug, I am going to have to close this case as there will not be further action from our driver team.

Regards,
NVIDIA Customer Care[/color]
Hey everybody,



Since the AvP thread seemed to have some luck in getting that issue fixed, I thought I'd start a new thread here for Crimson Skies. I'm going to copy and paste my correspondence with NVIDIA so that you can see what the problem is and how it's being handled so far. Please help me keep this thread active so that we can get this problem fixed! Please submit any additional information that you have regarding these issues! Let's work on this problem with the same attention that the NVIDIA community worked on the AvP problem! Write or call to NVIDIA and let them know that you would like a solution to this problem too! Thank you!!! :)



P.S. I know that in the first few exchanges I seem a bit harsh on the representative, but you know what they say about squeaky wheels getting oil...







Hello,



My issue is with garbled text graphics and frequent crashes in the game "Crimson Skies" for Windows.



This issue has been widespread amongst users of NVIDIA cards of the series 6XXX and higher.



Apparently in a Forceware driver version around 78, the game ceased to function properly when run in Direct3D accelerated mode.



I have tried all the "compatibility modes" available for the game's exe.



I have no third-party tweaking programs installed which could introduce graphical glitches or crashes. I do not overclock. I do not encounter these issues with any other game that I play on my computer with the 7800 GT.



In addition to requesting your help in resolving this issue, I would also like to request from you any technical information you have available relating to the specific causes of these problems with this specific game, "Crimson Skies". Please forward to me this data so that I can evaluate the problem as well.



Thank you.







Hello Karl,



Thank you for contacting NVIDIA Customer Care



I understand from your email that you are using a GeForce 7800 GT graphics card and when playing the game "Crimson Skies", you receive screen corruption.



This issue has been verified by NVIDIA and determined to be caused by a bug in the game Crimson Skies. As this issue occurs only with a particular game, I suggest that you contact the Game developer for the better performance of the game.



For further information regarding this issue, please visit the following link:

http://nvidia.custhelp.com/cgi-bin/nvidia....php?p_faqid=288



I suggest that you uninstall the existing driver and install the 163.71 driver version, to troubleshoot your issue.



To download the driver, please visit the following link:

http://www.nvidia.com/object/winxp_163.71.html



On the following page, click on the "Primary Download Site" URL to download the driver. To avoid download issues, if you are running any 3rd party download utilities, please disable them as they are know for occasionally causing errors with the downloads.



You will also need to update the motherboard chipset driver as well as the motherboard BIOS, for the better performance of the card.



Please feel free to contact us, if you have any further questions.



Regards,

NVIDIA Customer Care.





Hello,



Firstly, I am disappointed to see that you neglected my request for specific technical information relating to this problem.



Without specific technical information, it will be difficult for us to proceed.



Whereas I have indications from many NVIDIA customers that the problem actually lies in NVIDIA's drivers, and in fact the game will work with ATI/AMD cards, for so long as you refuse to engage me in a technical discussion I shall have no alternative but to regard my inability to play this game as a result of my owning an NVIDIA card, as opposed to a card manufactured by NVIDIA's competitors.



In the opening of your mail, you state the problem lies with the game itself. Yet in a following paragraph, you suggest that I change my drivers. These two statements are entirely inconsistent with one-another and suggest that you paid only minimal attention to my query. As a result, I must request that this correspondence be forwarded to your professional superior, who with any luck may feel inclined to offer me more assistance than you have.



In closing, let me state in no uncertain terms that I am unsatisfied with the proposed solutions you have sent to me, and am requesting further help relating to my problem from the customer support tier above your own.







Hello Karl,



I am sorry for the previous email. I apologize for the inconvenience this may have caused.



However, there being some known issue with that particular game since a long period, we at NVIDIA have not yet released any display driver to fix that issue. As we did not get any feedbacks or patches from Microsoft, there could not be drivers released by NVIDIA. The driver provided by me was the latest Beta driver. Therefore, I suggested you the driver to check whether the issue could be solved. I would still request you install the 163.71 drivers provided by me in the previous mail.



I will definitely forward this case to the Level 2 technicians for further investigation.



Please let me know if your issue has been resolved.



Regards,

NVIDIA Customer Care.







Thank you for your prompt response.



Whereas there is still limited technical information available to me, and as (according to various NVIDIA customers as read on internet forums) the game seemed to work until a certain point in the ForceWare update line, and the game continues to work with recent ATI cards so long as a tweak is enabled in their driver, on the basis of what I understand about the problem at this point I time I cannot recognize the total responsibility of Microsoft in this matter.



However at this point I am happy to wait for input from Level 2 technicians to see what information they may provide that will make the nature of the problem clearer. Thank you for referring this matter to them.









Hello again,



I've continued to investigate the issue with NVIDIA ForceWare's incompatibility with Crimson Skies Direct3D acceleration.



Installation of the ForceWare version 61.77 fixes the issues with the game. This ForceWare version dates from 2004. The last patch of Crimson Skies, version 1.02, dates from sometime in 2001 or 2002. Obviously, Crimson Skies worked perfectly with NVIDIA hardware, up until the point when a change was made in the ForceWare drivers that broke compatability. Therefore, on the basis of the information given to me so far, it seems that the responsibility for this problem is not "a bug in Crimson Skies" and the information that you have in your database that lists this issue as a "bug in Crimson Skies" is incorrect. It seems instead that the problem is due to NVIDIA's ForceWare drivers and, consequently, that the responsibility for offering a solution is NVIDIA's.



Please forward this correspondence to the personnel responsible for ForceWare coding and updates. Please continue correspondence with me on this issue, or refer my case to a higher level tech tier who will then continue this discussion with me.



Thank you.









Hello Karl,

The reason for the corruption is because the game doesn't check correctly for the support of Nonpower of two textures. The Forceware driver now have an unlimited support for Nonpow2 textures. That means we don't export the caps NONPOW2CONDITIONAL anymore. However the game misinterprets this as we don't support Pow2 and/or nonpow2 textures. Although we do feel the issue is an application issue, it is unlikely that this will be fixed through a patch since this game is 7 years old.



Regards,

NVIDIA Customer Care







Hello Manuel G, thank you for your response.



As you say, it is unlikely that the game will ever be patched again, as it is getting old and Microsoft has ceased to offer official support for it.



In a situation like this, where the developer/publisher are no longer willing or capable of patching the game, and the game is apparently not moddable (by end-users) in any significant way due to the obscure compression format in which its data is contained, I would think that the final responsibility for the game's functioning logically falls to NVIDIA and their ForceWare development team, as they are the only people who can solve this problem with NVIDIA customers.



Consider the position that customers find themselves in: the game does not function properly with recent NVIDIA hardware and drivers, and yet it does with ATI hardware and drivers, if not under default settings then with an official driver tweak. It may very well be the fault of the game's own code, but because of the logic of the situation, wouldn't you say that NVIDIA has a responsibility to see that their customers are capable of playing the game properly through a driver tweak of NVIDIA's own?



My only options, if I want to play this game properly, are either to use terribly out-of-date ForceWare drivers, thus disabling or crippling many of the qualities that I bought the card for in the first place -- or, on the other hand, my other option is to buy an ATI card next time, instead of an NVIDIA card. This is the position that an NVIDIA customer finds themself in because a ForceWare tweak for this game (and the few others with related issues) has not been developed.



Sure, objectively, it might seem as if Microsoft ought to be compelled by their customers to offer another patch for the game. But this isn't going to happen, for one reason or another. Any realistic person is capable of understanding the unlikelihood of Microsoft doing such a thing -- so surely a shrewd company such as NVIDIA will not hold any hopes for that possibility.



So, regardless of whose "fault" it is, it seems clear that the only way that a customer in my position will be satisfied is if NVIDIA "steps up" on my behalf and takes charge of the issue. Both sides, Microsoft and NVIDIA, could shirk responsibility indefinitely - but in the end, I'm an NVIDIA customer, I've a problem, and it's within the power of no-one but NVIDIA to solve the problem. While NVIDIA may have no responsibility to this particular game, surely NVIDIA feels enough responsibility to its customers to act in their interests when others fail to?



I hope that I am not coming across as argumentative. I'm only trying to explain the logic of the situation, in the hope that you'll agree with me. If it is not within the realm of your professional priveleges to influence the actions of the ForceWare development team, please forward this correspondence to someone who does have that privelege.



Thanks again.









Hello Karl,

I appreciate your very well thought out email. This issue has been brought up with our driver team twice and in both cases, this issue was punted back as an application issue. If our engineers are able to find an easy fix which does not break our drivers or has a potential to cause bugs with other programs, then they will indeed go ahead and provide a fix. We recently provided a workaround fix for another program which is about 5 years old called Aliens Vs. Predator 2. This game also had a bug due to changes in the specifications however our engineers were able to figure out an easy workaround which would not break the quality of the drivers, affect performance or change the compatibility with other software programs so this fix was implimented. Unfortunately, it is not possible to fix all applications issues although we would like to if possible. We apologize for the inconvenience once again this has caused you. NVIDIA has a great Developer Relations group which works proactively with software developers to provide fixes for their software. In many cases, software patches which were released by software developers for games have been as a result of assistance by our Developer Relations group who have worked with the software developers to fix issues with NVIIDA based graphics cards which are caused with the application itself.



Regards,

NVIDIA Customer Care







Hello Manuel, thanks for getting back to me.



I appreciate that the driver team(s) are making serious efforts to address the problems of NVIDIA customers. I'm by no means implying that anyone is failing to do their job. I do, however, require clarification if I'm to entirely understand your position.



As you described the problem to me:

"...That means we don't export the caps NONPOW2CONDITIONAL..."



And as we've already established, previous versions of ForceWare drivers did work with this game without flaw.



On the basis of this information, my understanding of the situation is that NVIDIA's driver code changed at a definite and identifiable point, removing the function that would "export the caps". This means that the ForceWare drivers are, on some level, capable of exporting these caps, and that the code instructing them to do so has already been developed by NVIDIA. This would mean that the code is available and it is capable of being interpreted by the ForceWare drivers.



If that is in fact the case, then I must admit that it is not clear to me how a game-specific tweak would be beyond the ability of the driver team to develop in a way that does not break the drivers or bug other games (provided that the tweak was only active during execution of the Crimson Skies game, and disabled or reverted at all other times).



I can understand that my requests must begin to wear on your patience, but if it is permissible for you to convey more specific information on why (or whether) such a tweak has been found by the driver team to be unworkable, I would appreciate it very much.



Thank you Manuel.









After nearly a month with no response, I mailed this and got the last reply:



Manuel,



I've waited more than long enough for a response from you. Please place me in contact with your professional superior so that I can continue to seek assistance with this issue.



Hello Karl,

I am sorry for the late response. Unfortunately, there is nothing more that can be done regarding this issue as our display driver team has already looked into this issue and marked as will not fix due to the reasons I stated previously. I personally submitted this bug to our driver team when it was first reported to us several years ago and the response I gave you is the response which I received from the driver development team. I do apologize for the inconvenience this may cause however since this is an application bug and not a display driver bug, I am going to have to close this case as there will not be further action from our driver team.



Regards,

NVIDIA Customer Care

#1
Posted 10/03/2007 12:32 PM   
[quote name='thecrazy' date='Oct 3 2007, 05:32 AM']We recently provided a workaround fix for another program which is about 5 years old called Aliens Vs. Predator 2.  This game also had a bug due to changes in the specifications however our engineers were able to figure out an easy workaround which would not break the quality of the drivers, affect performance or change the compatibility with other software programs so this fix was implimented. 
[right][snapback]260028[/snapback][/right]
[/quote]

Hello
Yes, it is very frustrating to see how NVIDIA brake older games and refusing to fix them. It is simply amazing how they drop certain features via code change and yet they have the nerve to tell us that the problems are caused by "APPLICATION" You know, NVIDIA broke QuickTime 7 and they also claimed that it was the fault of Apple. Yet overwhelming evidence proves that problem is within NVIDA driver.
[url="http://forums.nvidia.com/index.php?showtopic=37997"]http://forums.nvidia.com/index.php?showtopic=37997[/url]
[url="http://forums.nvidia.com/index.php?showtopic=42057"]http://forums.nvidia.com/index.php?showtopic=42057[/url]



[b]Thank you for contacting NVIDIA Customer Care.

I understand from your email that, you are unable to run the QuickTime with the driver version 94.24.

Our NVIDIA driver team is aware of this issue. Our engineers were able to determine the cause of the bug and determined it to be caused by the application. Our Developer Relations group is currently working with Apple to resolve this issue so that this bug can be fixed through a future Apple QuickTime update.

Hence, I would humbly request you to be patient and wait for the update from Apple. Please feel free to contact us, if you have any further concerns and thank you for your co-operation and patience.

Regards,
NVIDIA Customer Care[/b]

It is has become very clear to me that they don’t want to fix there own mistakes and instead they push there problems on software/game developers. It is really sad to see them fall to such low level. The fix was made for AvP Gold/Normal Developed by Rebellion and not for AvP 2 that was developed by Sierra.
Many users (myself included) that love to play older titles are really disappointed with NVIDIA’s inability to provide support for older titles. Yes they fixed my favorite game AvP (Thank you NVIDIA), but it took super long time and unnecessary arguments to get them to resolve it. Frankly we as customers should not be insulted or treated in such a way. NVIDIA should provide its user base with professionalism and proper care. Nvidia please start employing qualified software engineers. It will help you avoid such embarrassing incidents in the future.


I wish you all the best, hopefully they will make some sort of patch. They only hurt themselves as more and more users slowly, but surely losing faith by switching to AMD products or simply do not upgrade there existing hardware.
[url="http://forums.nvidia.com/index.php?act=ST&f=22&t=10324"]http://forums.nvidia.com/index.php?act=ST&f=22&t=10324[/url]
[url="http://forums.nvidia.com/index.php?act=ST&f=18&t=35500"]http://forums.nvidia.com/index.php?act=ST&f=18&t=35500[/url]

Good luck my friend.
[quote name='thecrazy' date='Oct 3 2007, 05:32 AM']We recently provided a workaround fix for another program which is about 5 years old called Aliens Vs. Predator 2.  This game also had a bug due to changes in the specifications however our engineers were able to figure out an easy workaround which would not break the quality of the drivers, affect performance or change the compatibility with other software programs so this fix was implimented. 

[snapback]260028[/snapback]






Hello

Yes, it is very frustrating to see how NVIDIA brake older games and refusing to fix them. It is simply amazing how they drop certain features via code change and yet they have the nerve to tell us that the problems are caused by "APPLICATION" You know, NVIDIA broke QuickTime 7 and they also claimed that it was the fault of Apple. Yet overwhelming evidence proves that problem is within NVIDA driver.

http://forums.nvidia.com/index.php?showtopic=37997

http://forums.nvidia.com/index.php?showtopic=42057







Thank you for contacting NVIDIA Customer Care.



I understand from your email that, you are unable to run the QuickTime with the driver version 94.24.



Our NVIDIA driver team is aware of this issue. Our engineers were able to determine the cause of the bug and determined it to be caused by the application. Our Developer Relations group is currently working with Apple to resolve this issue so that this bug can be fixed through a future Apple QuickTime update.



Hence, I would humbly request you to be patient and wait for the update from Apple. Please feel free to contact us, if you have any further concerns and thank you for your co-operation and patience.



Regards,

NVIDIA Customer Care




It is has become very clear to me that they don’t want to fix there own mistakes and instead they push there problems on software/game developers. It is really sad to see them fall to such low level. The fix was made for AvP Gold/Normal Developed by Rebellion and not for AvP 2 that was developed by Sierra.

Many users (myself included) that love to play older titles are really disappointed with NVIDIA’s inability to provide support for older titles. Yes they fixed my favorite game AvP (Thank you NVIDIA), but it took super long time and unnecessary arguments to get them to resolve it. Frankly we as customers should not be insulted or treated in such a way. NVIDIA should provide its user base with professionalism and proper care. Nvidia please start employing qualified software engineers. It will help you avoid such embarrassing incidents in the future.





I wish you all the best, hopefully they will make some sort of patch. They only hurt themselves as more and more users slowly, but surely losing faith by switching to AMD products or simply do not upgrade there existing hardware.

http://forums.nvidia.com/index.php?act=ST&f=22&t=10324

http://forums.nvidia.com/index.php?act=ST&f=18&t=35500



Good luck my friend.

8800GTS 640
AMD Athlon 64 X2 4800+
OCZ EL DDR PC-3200 4GB
GIGABYTE GA-K8N Pro-SLI 939
SILVERSTONE DA800 800W PSU
Windows XP Professional x64 Edition

#2
Posted 10/03/2007 06:19 PM   
Hi! Thanks for posting! :)

I've also made another thread about the general issue of NVIDIA's broken support for older Windows games. Let's keep that thread active too!

[url="http://forums.nvidia.com/index.php?showtopic=47551"]http://forums.nvidia.com/index.php?showtopic=47551[/url]
Hi! Thanks for posting! :)



I've also made another thread about the general issue of NVIDIA's broken support for older Windows games. Let's keep that thread active too!



http://forums.nvidia.com/index.php?showtopic=47551

#3
Posted 10/04/2007 03:35 AM   
I miss Crimson Skies so much. I played it all the time back in the day (online with the Grey Squadron) and even after the online warfare had diminished I still played offline. That is until my ATI 9800pro died and I "upgraded" to an Nvidia 6800GT. All of a sudden I couldn't play CS anymore.

Then when that died I was offered a 7900GTO at an advantageous price. I wish I hadn't taken it. I should have bought an ATI then but I didn't. I got the 7900.

Well, next upgrade time I can assure you Nvidia won't be getting any more of my money. It's ATI all the way for me from now on.

Oh, and don't expect any official response to this, or any of your other threads. It just ain't gonna happen. The best you can expect might be someone trotting out the company line passing the buck to Microsoft.
I miss Crimson Skies so much. I played it all the time back in the day (online with the Grey Squadron) and even after the online warfare had diminished I still played offline. That is until my ATI 9800pro died and I "upgraded" to an Nvidia 6800GT. All of a sudden I couldn't play CS anymore.



Then when that died I was offered a 7900GTO at an advantageous price. I wish I hadn't taken it. I should have bought an ATI then but I didn't. I got the 7900.



Well, next upgrade time I can assure you Nvidia won't be getting any more of my money. It's ATI all the way for me from now on.



Oh, and don't expect any official response to this, or any of your other threads. It just ain't gonna happen. The best you can expect might be someone trotting out the company line passing the buck to Microsoft.

#4
Posted 10/17/2007 02:22 PM   
This has been frustrating for me too. Crimson Skies is one of my all-time favorites and am disappointed that I cannot play it due to a stupid little text problem. Has anyone tried contacting Zipper Interactive regarding this matter? I went to their web site and all they have listed for contact is a 1-800 Sony tech support phone number. No e-mail, no forum, no nothing.

I'm hoping this gets resolved so I can play it again. If we're lucky, maybe they'll release the source code a la Freespace 2.

C'mon NVIDIA, get the lead out, it's not that big of a problem to fix!
This has been frustrating for me too. Crimson Skies is one of my all-time favorites and am disappointed that I cannot play it due to a stupid little text problem. Has anyone tried contacting Zipper Interactive regarding this matter? I went to their web site and all they have listed for contact is a 1-800 Sony tech support phone number. No e-mail, no forum, no nothing.



I'm hoping this gets resolved so I can play it again. If we're lucky, maybe they'll release the source code a la Freespace 2.



C'mon NVIDIA, get the lead out, it's not that big of a problem to fix!

#5
Posted 10/19/2007 02:33 PM   
Hello everyone,

[b]thecrazy[/b]: I really admired the clean way in which you confronted the Nvidia staff with your (our) problem. And since this topic is so recent, i felt persuaded to actually register at the forums, and share my experience. :D

Let me first say that i never got Crimson Skies when it got out. Or even heard of it. I read about it ~2 years ago.

I borrowed it and tried playing with the card i had at the time: a 6600LE


I was immediately taken. :magic:


I actually could ignore the fact that the text menus didn't render properly. The fact that it would only run in win98 compatibility mode. I switched constantly between software and hardware rendering, just to be able to play it.

Until i got to the second level, and the game started crashing sporadically. First i would just ignore it - "[i]finish the level before it crashes[/i]" was my main in-game thought.

I think i actually managed to get to level 3 this way. :D

From there on, it was simply impossible. /thumbsdown.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':thumbsdown:' />

So, i decided to try to make this game work. Mind you, my skills don't go as far as i wish them to go, but i do have some skills and experience, so i gave it a shot.

[quote]- Like you, i tried out all the different levels of hardware acceleration (altered via the control panel display applet, and via the dxdiag application), combined with the different compatibility modes.
- I tried the unpatched and patched versions.
- I tried different levels of process priority and tried setting the process CPU affinity to just a single CPU via the Task Manager.
- I actually figured it could be a problem with the Securom protection, and tried using a game .exe that wouldn't use it. That didn't work, so i went and removed the protection from the original file manually.
- I tried A LOT of combinations of all of the above, all to no avail.
-Some of these combinations actually allowed a bit more play-before-crash, but since the first moment after seeing the scrambled menu text, i figured it was a problem with the graphic card.[/quote]

I now own a 6600GT and experience the same exact problem. I tried the game on other pcs with older cards/drivers, and the problem does not appear.


There wasn't much debate about this issue before, when i was digging into it. Most people then didn't even report a problem. So i decided to give it some time. And today, searching again for solutions, i found this thread.

[color=red]So here are my contributions:[/color]

[b]"old" thread describing the problem - [/b]
[url="http://www.motherboardpoint.com/t84635-menu-text-problem-in-quotcrimson-skiesquot.html"]http://www.motherboardpoint.com/t84635-men...-skiesquot.html[/url]

[b]an attempt to hack at the problem by editing the game files, so they would comply to the texture norm - [/b]
[url="http://forum.beyond3d.com/showthread.php?t=44453"]http://forum.beyond3d.com/showthread.php?t=44453[/url]


[b]since Thief 2 is reported to have the same problem (although with different symptoms), some investigation lead me to this -[/b]
[url="http://www.ttlg.com/forums/showthread.php?t=113501"]http://www.ttlg.com/forums/showthread.php?t=113501[/url]

[b]the person that recently solved the related Thief 2 problem:[/b]
[url="http://timeslip.chorrol.com/index.html"]http://timeslip.chorrol.com/index.html[/url]

This is the guy that can probably fix the problem, if he wants to.
He certainly seems to have the necessary experience and skills.
But i don't know if he has the time, i couldn't find an email, but i didn't dig much.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Still, the point remains. [b]Retrocompatibility is something that should be a given thing.[/b] Microsoft certainly keeps forgetting this, with every piece of software they release.
Sometimes they make amends for it with patches and service packs. But Microsoft actually tries to profit from this bad practice:

A recent case is Windows Vista and DirectX 10. Negating to implement it in XP is only a way of forcing a segment of the market to move (and purchase) their new piece of still totally non-retrocompatible still crappy software. /thumbsdown.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':thumbsdown:' />
An old case: remember when windows xp came out? Win98 software would simply not work. Today, with an updated XP, you almost never even have to use compatibility mode.


I can't see why Nvidia would follow this policy. Pleasing the community should be something good for them, one would think.

From reading up on the Nvidia company's history, one can find out a few things.
- It had quarrels with Microsoft in the past.
- It's probably afraid of losing the [i]status quo[/i] of being able to outperform the competition.

Since "outperforming the competition" usually means more FPS with newer games, they tend to disregard any retrocompatibility that may impair their universal driver system leaving the problems to solve themselves.

Hope you got through all of this :D
Hello everyone,



thecrazy: I really admired the clean way in which you confronted the Nvidia staff with your (our) problem. And since this topic is so recent, i felt persuaded to actually register at the forums, and share my experience. :D



Let me first say that i never got Crimson Skies when it got out. Or even heard of it. I read about it ~2 years ago.



I borrowed it and tried playing with the card i had at the time: a 6600LE





I was immediately taken. :magic:





I actually could ignore the fact that the text menus didn't render properly. The fact that it would only run in win98 compatibility mode. I switched constantly between software and hardware rendering, just to be able to play it.



Until i got to the second level, and the game started crashing sporadically. First i would just ignore it - "finish the level before it crashes" was my main in-game thought.



I think i actually managed to get to level 3 this way. :D



From there on, it was simply impossible. /thumbsdown.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':thumbsdown:' />



So, i decided to try to make this game work. Mind you, my skills don't go as far as i wish them to go, but i do have some skills and experience, so i gave it a shot.



- Like you, i tried out all the different levels of hardware acceleration (altered via the control panel display applet, and via the dxdiag application), combined with the different compatibility modes.

- I tried the unpatched and patched versions.

- I tried different levels of process priority and tried setting the process CPU affinity to just a single CPU via the Task Manager.

- I actually figured it could be a problem with the Securom protection, and tried using a game .exe that wouldn't use it. That didn't work, so i went and removed the protection from the original file manually.

- I tried A LOT of combinations of all of the above, all to no avail.

-Some of these combinations actually allowed a bit more play-before-crash, but since the first moment after seeing the scrambled menu text, i figured it was a problem with the graphic card.




I now own a 6600GT and experience the same exact problem. I tried the game on other pcs with older cards/drivers, and the problem does not appear.





There wasn't much debate about this issue before, when i was digging into it. Most people then didn't even report a problem. So i decided to give it some time. And today, searching again for solutions, i found this thread.



So here are my contributions:



"old" thread describing the problem -

http://www.motherboardpoint.com/t84635-men...-skiesquot.html



an attempt to hack at the problem by editing the game files, so they would comply to the texture norm -

http://forum.beyond3d.com/showthread.php?t=44453





since Thief 2 is reported to have the same problem (although with different symptoms), some investigation lead me to this -

http://www.ttlg.com/forums/showthread.php?t=113501



the person that recently solved the related Thief 2 problem:

http://timeslip.chorrol.com/index.html



This is the guy that can probably fix the problem, if he wants to.

He certainly seems to have the necessary experience and skills.

But i don't know if he has the time, i couldn't find an email, but i didn't dig much.



----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------



Still, the point remains. Retrocompatibility is something that should be a given thing. Microsoft certainly keeps forgetting this, with every piece of software they release.

Sometimes they make amends for it with patches and service packs. But Microsoft actually tries to profit from this bad practice:



A recent case is Windows Vista and DirectX 10. Negating to implement it in XP is only a way of forcing a segment of the market to move (and purchase) their new piece of still totally non-retrocompatible still crappy software. /thumbsdown.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':thumbsdown:' />

An old case: remember when windows xp came out? Win98 software would simply not work. Today, with an updated XP, you almost never even have to use compatibility mode.





I can't see why Nvidia would follow this policy. Pleasing the community should be something good for them, one would think.



From reading up on the Nvidia company's history, one can find out a few things.

- It had quarrels with Microsoft in the past.

- It's probably afraid of losing the status quo of being able to outperform the competition.



Since "outperforming the competition" usually means more FPS with newer games, they tend to disregard any retrocompatibility that may impair their universal driver system leaving the problems to solve themselves.



Hope you got through all of this :D

#6
Posted 10/20/2007 03:17 PM   
To support [b]Member[/b]'s efforts to get the AvP problem resolved, I called NVIDIA and during the call I mentioned that they needed to fix Interstate '76, also. I suppose I should call them again.

C'mon NVIDIA, make your drivers backwards compatible. Breaking compatibility with older games is not acceptable.

Stop blaming the game developers for compatibility issues with old games. If an old game worked fine with your previous drivers but won't work with your latest drivers, then it is you who need to make the fix.

NVIDIA, please realize that continuing to support older games just adds value to your products.

If you want to live up to your advertising tag line, then do your absolute best to support old games so that your customers can play them "the way they were meant to be played".
To support Member's efforts to get the AvP problem resolved, I called NVIDIA and during the call I mentioned that they needed to fix Interstate '76, also. I suppose I should call them again.



C'mon NVIDIA, make your drivers backwards compatible. Breaking compatibility with older games is not acceptable.



Stop blaming the game developers for compatibility issues with old games. If an old game worked fine with your previous drivers but won't work with your latest drivers, then it is you who need to make the fix.



NVIDIA, please realize that continuing to support older games just adds value to your products.



If you want to live up to your advertising tag line, then do your absolute best to support old games so that your customers can play them "the way they were meant to be played".

Basically, yeah.

#7
Posted 10/22/2007 02:39 PM   
[quote name='MutoidMan' date='Oct 22 2007, 07:39 AM']To support [b]Member[/b]'s efforts to get the AvP problem resolved, I called NVIDIA and during the call I mentioned that they needed to fix Interstate '76, also. I suppose I should call them again.
[right][snapback]268151[/snapback][/right]
[/quote]

Yes you were VERY helpful with AvP. /thumbup.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':thumbup:' /> Honestly I couldn’t have done it alone. /no.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':no:' />
Thank you so much for your support! :)
[quote name='MutoidMan' date='Oct 22 2007, 07:39 AM']To support Member's efforts to get the AvP problem resolved, I called NVIDIA and during the call I mentioned that they needed to fix Interstate '76, also. I suppose I should call them again.

[snapback]268151[/snapback]






Yes you were VERY helpful with AvP. /thumbup.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':thumbup:' /> Honestly I couldn’t have done it alone. /no.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':no:' />

Thank you so much for your support! :)

8800GTS 640
AMD Athlon 64 X2 4800+
OCZ EL DDR PC-3200 4GB
GIGABYTE GA-K8N Pro-SLI 939
SILVERSTONE DA800 800W PSU
Windows XP Professional x64 Edition

#8
Posted 10/22/2007 04:48 PM   
Hey everyone!

Thanks so much for your replies here! Sorry I hadn't posted here - I had been checking my other thread, in "General Software", and had forgotten about this one.

Fullmoon - thanks for finding so much great info! I'm reading it all right now.

I've contacted Microsoft and informed them of the claim of their responsibility made by NVIDIA. Maybe they'll show them who's boss...

Zipper Interactive is a very different company now; I doubt if any of the original developers of Crimson Skies are still there.

I also emailed NVIDIA's Director of Public Relations - and have received no response.

NVIDIA's sending a clear message that they just don't care. My first correspondence with an NVIDIA representative was just dropped, despite my still asking lots of questions and specifically requesting them to continue correspondence with me. And now my second correspondence is resulting in one of their tech representatives telling me to take it up with the "Developer Relations" department!...yeah right, like they'll have anything to say to a normal end-user. :P

It's absolutely ridiculous. I guess I'm just going to have to call someone over there one of these days when I'm available in the middle of the day.

As for Timeslip, I think he could be contacted through Bethesda's forums, since he makes mods for Oblivion. I cannot do this though (I am banned there) :( Volunteers to contact him?
Hey everyone!



Thanks so much for your replies here! Sorry I hadn't posted here - I had been checking my other thread, in "General Software", and had forgotten about this one.



Fullmoon - thanks for finding so much great info! I'm reading it all right now.



I've contacted Microsoft and informed them of the claim of their responsibility made by NVIDIA. Maybe they'll show them who's boss...



Zipper Interactive is a very different company now; I doubt if any of the original developers of Crimson Skies are still there.



I also emailed NVIDIA's Director of Public Relations - and have received no response.



NVIDIA's sending a clear message that they just don't care. My first correspondence with an NVIDIA representative was just dropped, despite my still asking lots of questions and specifically requesting them to continue correspondence with me. And now my second correspondence is resulting in one of their tech representatives telling me to take it up with the "Developer Relations" department!...yeah right, like they'll have anything to say to a normal end-user. :P



It's absolutely ridiculous. I guess I'm just going to have to call someone over there one of these days when I'm available in the middle of the day.



As for Timeslip, I think he could be contacted through Bethesda's forums, since he makes mods for Oblivion. I cannot do this though (I am banned there) :( Volunteers to contact him?

#9
Posted 10/23/2007 01:38 PM   
I have been a long time customer of nVidia's. Almost a decade now. During that time I have only purchased nVidia cards for my systems. I believed they were superior to ATI and other graphics card developers.

I love Crimson Skies for the PC. After playing it I sought out and purchased all of the FASA and WizKids material.

When I upgraded to an nVidia 6600 the game stopped working on my PC properly. I read all the information I could find on the Internet and learned about the Power of 2 issue.

I also learned that, at the time, the MX4400 card still worked with the game (where my 6600 did not). I went out and purchased the MX4400 and set it up.

For a while I had 2 hardware profiles and would manually switch the video plug on my computer and make the BIOS change to play Crimson Skies (almost daily).

Later I updated my 6600 to a 8800 GTS and that is when my MX4400 stopped working (the 8800 GTS never worked with CS as we know).

I have now learned it was a driver change by nVidia which made my secondary (Crimson Skies only) video card useless.

nVidia - I gave you a decade of my money. I purhased an extra (and inferior) video card from you JUST to play Crimson Skies after your driver change broke it for my 6600. Then you broke that too.

Please fix what you broke.

All of my friends have switched to ATI due to the issues with Crimson Skies. I have not yet as I keep hopeing that you will fix what you broke.

Peer pressure with reinforcement from you (through your inaction and denials) is getting harder to resist.

When it comes time to upgrade my card again THE ONLY DECIDING FACTOR WILL BE YOUR STANCE ON CRIMSON SKIES and if you have fixed the issue.

So it is ALL up to YOU nVidia. I really hope you will show me the same support and customer respect that I have shown you with my brand loyalty and dollars.
I have been a long time customer of nVidia's. Almost a decade now. During that time I have only purchased nVidia cards for my systems. I believed they were superior to ATI and other graphics card developers.



I love Crimson Skies for the PC. After playing it I sought out and purchased all of the FASA and WizKids material.



When I upgraded to an nVidia 6600 the game stopped working on my PC properly. I read all the information I could find on the Internet and learned about the Power of 2 issue.



I also learned that, at the time, the MX4400 card still worked with the game (where my 6600 did not). I went out and purchased the MX4400 and set it up.



For a while I had 2 hardware profiles and would manually switch the video plug on my computer and make the BIOS change to play Crimson Skies (almost daily).



Later I updated my 6600 to a 8800 GTS and that is when my MX4400 stopped working (the 8800 GTS never worked with CS as we know).



I have now learned it was a driver change by nVidia which made my secondary (Crimson Skies only) video card useless.



nVidia - I gave you a decade of my money. I purhased an extra (and inferior) video card from you JUST to play Crimson Skies after your driver change broke it for my 6600. Then you broke that too.



Please fix what you broke.



All of my friends have switched to ATI due to the issues with Crimson Skies. I have not yet as I keep hopeing that you will fix what you broke.



Peer pressure with reinforcement from you (through your inaction and denials) is getting harder to resist.



When it comes time to upgrade my card again THE ONLY DECIDING FACTOR WILL BE YOUR STANCE ON CRIMSON SKIES and if you have fixed the issue.



So it is ALL up to YOU nVidia. I really hope you will show me the same support and customer respect that I have shown you with my brand loyalty and dollars.

#10
Posted 10/29/2007 12:11 AM   
Hi everybody.

I've updated the first post with the final reply from NVIDIA.

To save you some clicking, I'll just put the significant part of the update here:

Hello Karl,
I am sorry for the late response. Unfortunately, there is nothing more that can be done regarding this issue as our display driver team has already looked into this issue and marked as will not fix due to the reasons I stated previously. I personally submitted this bug to our driver team when it was first reported to us several years ago and the response I gave you is the response which I received from the driver development team. I do apologize for the inconvenience this may cause however since this is an application bug and not a display driver bug, I am going to have to close this case as there will not be further action from our driver team.

Regards,
NVIDIA Customer Care
Hi everybody.



I've updated the first post with the final reply from NVIDIA.



To save you some clicking, I'll just put the significant part of the update here:



Hello Karl,

I am sorry for the late response. Unfortunately, there is nothing more that can be done regarding this issue as our display driver team has already looked into this issue and marked as will not fix due to the reasons I stated previously. I personally submitted this bug to our driver team when it was first reported to us several years ago and the response I gave you is the response which I received from the driver development team. I do apologize for the inconvenience this may cause however since this is an application bug and not a display driver bug, I am going to have to close this case as there will not be further action from our driver team.



Regards,

NVIDIA Customer Care

#11
Posted 10/29/2007 08:38 AM   
[quote name='Croy' date='Oct 29 2007, 01:11 AM']When it comes time to upgrade my card again THE ONLY DECIDING FACTOR WILL BE YOUR STANCE ON CRIMSON SKIES and if you have fixed the issue.[/quote] - ditto

[b]thecrazy[/b]: I havent made any efforts to contact Timeslip - or the guy that wanted to fix the games' textures for that matter. Have you ?
[quote name='Croy' date='Oct 29 2007, 01:11 AM']When it comes time to upgrade my card again THE ONLY DECIDING FACTOR WILL BE YOUR STANCE ON CRIMSON SKIES and if you have fixed the issue. - ditto



thecrazy: I havent made any efforts to contact Timeslip - or the guy that wanted to fix the games' textures for that matter. Have you ?

#12
Posted 10/30/2007 10:50 AM   
[quote name='fullmooninu' date='Oct 30 2007, 05:50 AM']- ditto

[b]thecrazy[/b]: I havent made any efforts to contact Timeslip - or the guy that wanted to fix the games' textures for that matter. Have you ?
[right][snapback]272253[/snapback][/right]
[/quote]


Hi Fullmooninu,

I can't contact Timeslip because I haven't got access to the Bethesda forums, and that's the only way I see possible to contact him due to his lack of email address on his website.
They guy who wanted to fix the games' textures (on the beyond3d forum you mean?) isn't any closer to a solution, nor did he ever install WINE.
[quote name='fullmooninu' date='Oct 30 2007, 05:50 AM']- ditto



thecrazy: I havent made any efforts to contact Timeslip - or the guy that wanted to fix the games' textures for that matter. Have you ?

[snapback]272253[/snapback]








Hi Fullmooninu,



I can't contact Timeslip because I haven't got access to the Bethesda forums, and that's the only way I see possible to contact him due to his lack of email address on his website.

They guy who wanted to fix the games' textures (on the beyond3d forum you mean?) isn't any closer to a solution, nor did he ever install WINE.

#13
Posted 11/07/2007 05:38 PM   
HI

I have just came across this thread as this is a problem i am now having, however,

I used to play this game with my, 7950GT 512mb and the game ran fine with no graphics bugs of crashes, and various tweaks made in nividia control panel, i upgraded to a 8800GTS 640mb a few months ago, and the other day decided to dig out my copy of CS, however i now have all the same problems as everybody else.

I cant get to the other system with the 7950 in it just now but when i have access i wil,l test it with the newer drivers to see if it no longer works,

i was using either 93.71_forceware_winxp64_english_whql or 158.22_forceware_winxp64_english_whql, so i wll try these and let you know, however i HAD NO PROBLEMS with my 7950.

As for nividia atitiude to this problem, this is pretty much par for the course in this industry, i have to deal with this kinda problem everyday at my job, its always everybody else's fault. (this is not just a nividia thing,try calling microsoft for support on ANYTHING!! lol)

But as a user who has used nividia card for around 10 years, i have noticed over the last year and half and massive decrease in the quality of drivers released, with updates usually breaking more than it fixes, and new drivers coming out every 2 weeks to a month to fix issue after issue, seems to have came about when microsoft tried to kill of the "unified driver" with Vista, knocking the PC hardware industry BACK about 10 years!!, ever since they tried move away from a "single package" driver its never realy been the same.


***UPDATE***

got access to the other system with the 7950, with older drivers the system is now showing the same problem which it NEVER had before, it also wouldnt even run unless i set compatability mode to 98/ME, the system does have different CPU, but other than that, same OS and drivers, it could be the newer DX9, but im not willing to install an older version as all the newer games will have problems if they even run that is, DX9 is realy the only thing that has been changed on this system. (although i have had the 163.71 drivers installed on this sys, but had to remove them due to problems)
HI



I have just came across this thread as this is a problem i am now having, however,



I used to play this game with my, 7950GT 512mb and the game ran fine with no graphics bugs of crashes, and various tweaks made in nividia control panel, i upgraded to a 8800GTS 640mb a few months ago, and the other day decided to dig out my copy of CS, however i now have all the same problems as everybody else.



I cant get to the other system with the 7950 in it just now but when i have access i wil,l test it with the newer drivers to see if it no longer works,



i was using either 93.71_forceware_winxp64_english_whql or 158.22_forceware_winxp64_english_whql, so i wll try these and let you know, however i HAD NO PROBLEMS with my 7950.



As for nividia atitiude to this problem, this is pretty much par for the course in this industry, i have to deal with this kinda problem everyday at my job, its always everybody else's fault. (this is not just a nividia thing,try calling microsoft for support on ANYTHING!! lol)



But as a user who has used nividia card for around 10 years, i have noticed over the last year and half and massive decrease in the quality of drivers released, with updates usually breaking more than it fixes, and new drivers coming out every 2 weeks to a month to fix issue after issue, seems to have came about when microsoft tried to kill of the "unified driver" with Vista, knocking the PC hardware industry BACK about 10 years!!, ever since they tried move away from a "single package" driver its never realy been the same.





***UPDATE***



got access to the other system with the 7950, with older drivers the system is now showing the same problem which it NEVER had before, it also wouldnt even run unless i set compatability mode to 98/ME, the system does have different CPU, but other than that, same OS and drivers, it could be the newer DX9, but im not willing to install an older version as all the newer games will have problems if they even run that is, DX9 is realy the only thing that has been changed on this system. (although i have had the 163.71 drivers installed on this sys, but had to remove them due to problems)

#14
Posted 11/24/2007 02:27 PM   
:angry: C'mon nvidia.... step up to the plate and resolve this! you say it's microsoft's baby but in fact it's yours! keep your customers happy.... fix this bug!
:angry: C'mon nvidia.... step up to the plate and resolve this! you say it's microsoft's baby but in fact it's yours! keep your customers happy.... fix this bug!

#15
Posted 12/05/2007 04:19 PM   
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