nVidia Drivers interfere with Firewire sound devic any tech help appreciated
I was not sure which was the most appropriate place to post this so please feel free to move it if this is incorrect.

This is a lengthy post so obviously only read it if you are interested.

I have been visiting these forums for a long long time but not posted before, I hope that someone here may be able to offer some insights to the following problem:

Greetings,

I am sending this request to RME [url="http://www.rme-audio.de/en_index.php"]http://www.rme-audio.de/en_index.php[/url], nVidia support [url="http://www.nvidia.com/page/support.html"]http://www.nvidia.com/page/support.html[/url] and Guru 3D [url="http://forums.guru3d.com/"]http://forums.guru3d.com/[/url], in the hope to gain some help and gain some knowledge as to the casue of this problem.

I have Fireface 400 which is a professional Firewire sound card device. This device has drivers for Vista x64 which i am using as operating system (Vista 64 Ultimate.) It is a complete clean install with very little in the way of software added.

I was having many problems with the FW device throwing up errors when streaming audio (using professional music software AND using basic Windws Media Player). It seemed that there was something intefering with the Firewire signal. I did try with a brand new separate Firewire card but was till having this problem. (For RME please note that this was regardless of buffer size setting, or any other settings for that matter.)

I was using nVidia drivers version 158.24

Eventually after much trial and error I discovered that after disabling 3 items in startup (using MsConfig), everything works perfectly.

Those 3 items were:

NVIDIA Compatible Windows 2000 Display driver, version 158.24
NVIDIA Media Centre Library
NVIDIA Driver Helper Service version 158.24

[img]http://www.riffsandrays.com/images/nvidia2.jpg[/img]

My first question is what exactly do those three items do and how did removing them clear up the problem with firewire? I also observed that everything on the graphics side still worked normally after removing them, including Direct X 9 and 10 games etc.

I then updated to the new nVidia beta drivers version 163.11, which work perfectly. However the same problem with the Firewire device returned. I then disabled the 3 items mentioned above (but with the updated driver versions). This time it made no difference at all and the Firewire device would not work without errors. In fact when playing a file in Wavelab the cursor actually moved forward a bit and then backwards a bit resulting in a garbled mess of sound. I tried many things but had no luck at all.

the only way to resolve this was to system restore back to nVidia drivers version 158.24 and disable the 3 items.


So what is it in the nVidia drivers that has changed between those versions and whatever it is, why does it affect the firewire signal?

Obviously I would love to get some clear suggestions on how to move forward with this. Even an answer to one or two of these questions would be very helpful.

As you can imagine I have spent many, many hours working on this and even this report has taken time to type and edit concisely.


I would greatly appreciate any response.


Thanks and best regards,

Phil Pendlebury.


nb. Everything works perfectly in Vista 32 without any tweaks. (other than disabling aero).



My system specs:

Intel QX6700 Extreme
Asus Commando
8GbDDR2 667
BFG nVidiaGF8800GTX PCI Exp
Dell Ultrasharp 3007WFP-HC 30
Enermax Galaxy 1000x
WD10,000RPM SATA X4
I was not sure which was the most appropriate place to post this so please feel free to move it if this is incorrect.



This is a lengthy post so obviously only read it if you are interested.



I have been visiting these forums for a long long time but not posted before, I hope that someone here may be able to offer some insights to the following problem:



Greetings,



I am sending this request to RME http://www.rme-audio.de/en_index.php, nVidia support http://www.nvidia.com/page/support.html and Guru 3D http://forums.guru3d.com/, in the hope to gain some help and gain some knowledge as to the casue of this problem.



I have Fireface 400 which is a professional Firewire sound card device. This device has drivers for Vista x64 which i am using as operating system (Vista 64 Ultimate.) It is a complete clean install with very little in the way of software added.



I was having many problems with the FW device throwing up errors when streaming audio (using professional music software AND using basic Windws Media Player). It seemed that there was something intefering with the Firewire signal. I did try with a brand new separate Firewire card but was till having this problem. (For RME please note that this was regardless of buffer size setting, or any other settings for that matter.)



I was using nVidia drivers version 158.24



Eventually after much trial and error I discovered that after disabling 3 items in startup (using MsConfig), everything works perfectly.



Those 3 items were:



NVIDIA Compatible Windows 2000 Display driver, version 158.24

NVIDIA Media Centre Library

NVIDIA Driver Helper Service version 158.24



Image



My first question is what exactly do those three items do and how did removing them clear up the problem with firewire? I also observed that everything on the graphics side still worked normally after removing them, including Direct X 9 and 10 games etc.



I then updated to the new nVidia beta drivers version 163.11, which work perfectly. However the same problem with the Firewire device returned. I then disabled the 3 items mentioned above (but with the updated driver versions). This time it made no difference at all and the Firewire device would not work without errors. In fact when playing a file in Wavelab the cursor actually moved forward a bit and then backwards a bit resulting in a garbled mess of sound. I tried many things but had no luck at all.



the only way to resolve this was to system restore back to nVidia drivers version 158.24 and disable the 3 items.





So what is it in the nVidia drivers that has changed between those versions and whatever it is, why does it affect the firewire signal?



Obviously I would love to get some clear suggestions on how to move forward with this. Even an answer to one or two of these questions would be very helpful.



As you can imagine I have spent many, many hours working on this and even this report has taken time to type and edit concisely.





I would greatly appreciate any response.





Thanks and best regards,



Phil Pendlebury.





nb. Everything works perfectly in Vista 32 without any tweaks. (other than disabling aero).







My system specs:



Intel QX6700 Extreme

Asus Commando

8GbDDR2 667

BFG nVidiaGF8800GTX PCI Exp

Dell Ultrasharp 3007WFP-HC 30

Enermax Galaxy 1000x

WD10,000RPM SATA X4

#1
Posted 07/15/2007 01:12 AM   
the only thing i can say is that with my MOTU 828mkii there is no such problem. None of the drivers i've used before (up to the current 162.22) interfered with sound.

also from my limited knowledge, disabling these 3 items should have no adverse effects. frankly i don't know for sure, but i suspect it has something to do with customizing graphic settings for specific games you've installed or something along that line.
the only thing i can say is that with my MOTU 828mkii there is no such problem. None of the drivers i've used before (up to the current 162.22) interfered with sound.



also from my limited knowledge, disabling these 3 items should have no adverse effects. frankly i don't know for sure, but i suspect it has something to do with customizing graphic settings for specific games you've installed or something along that line.

#2
Posted 07/15/2007 02:28 AM   
[quote name='seemebreakthis' date='Jul 15 2007, 02:28 AM']the only thing i can say is that with my MOTU 828mkii there is no such problem.  None of the drivers i've used before (up to the current 162.22) interfered with sound.

also from my limited knowledge, disabling these 3 items should have no adverse effects.  frankly i don't know for sure, but i suspect it has something to do with customizing graphic settings for specific games you've installed or something along that line.
[right][snapback]222798[/snapback][/right]
[/quote]


Thanks for that,

Is the 828 a Firewire card?

I have not customised the graphics in any way for games on the x64 install. I installed MS Flight Sim X to make sure the 3D was working solidly.

I haven't even altered any of the nVidia control panel stuff other than to set my monitor's native res.

Remember this is a clean V64 install it is a dual boot (with V32) set up which I will be moving to once all these troubles are ironed out.

Thanks anyway.
[quote name='seemebreakthis' date='Jul 15 2007, 02:28 AM']the only thing i can say is that with my MOTU 828mkii there is no such problem.  None of the drivers i've used before (up to the current 162.22) interfered with sound.



also from my limited knowledge, disabling these 3 items should have no adverse effects.  frankly i don't know for sure, but i suspect it has something to do with customizing graphic settings for specific games you've installed or something along that line.

[snapback]222798[/snapback]








Thanks for that,



Is the 828 a Firewire card?



I have not customised the graphics in any way for games on the x64 install. I installed MS Flight Sim X to make sure the 3D was working solidly.



I haven't even altered any of the nVidia control panel stuff other than to set my monitor's native res.



Remember this is a clean V64 install it is a dual boot (with V32) set up which I will be moving to once all these troubles are ironed out.



Thanks anyway.

#3
Posted 07/15/2007 02:33 AM   
Disabling the driver helper service disables the profiles, which means that certain games which have fixes (Halo, MOHAA, Quake3) won't work properly.

tried updating the drivers on the firewire device?
Disabling the driver helper service disables the profiles, which means that certain games which have fixes (Halo, MOHAA, Quake3) won't work properly.



tried updating the drivers on the firewire device?

#4
Posted 07/15/2007 03:07 AM   
[quote name='Phil Pendlebury' date='Jul 15 2007, 10:33 AM']Is the 828 a Firewire card?

[right][snapback]222805[/snapback][/right]
[/quote]

Strange you are asking this question. I did some research (and actually considered buying the fireface 800) before I purchased the 828. I thought you probably have done something similar.

The 828 is an audio interface device much like your fireface 400. It has 22ins and 20 out (or something like that) indlucing ADAT IO, S/PDIF and optical, 2 mic/guitar preamps, and 8 analog IOs.

I installed Vista 32-bit rather than 64-bit however. Wonder if this will make any difference.
[quote name='Phil Pendlebury' date='Jul 15 2007, 10:33 AM']Is the 828 a Firewire card?



[snapback]222805[/snapback]






Strange you are asking this question. I did some research (and actually considered buying the fireface 800) before I purchased the 828. I thought you probably have done something similar.



The 828 is an audio interface device much like your fireface 400. It has 22ins and 20 out (or something like that) indlucing ADAT IO, S/PDIF and optical, 2 mic/guitar preamps, and 8 analog IOs.



I installed Vista 32-bit rather than 64-bit however. Wonder if this will make any difference.

#5
Posted 07/15/2007 04:53 AM   
[quote name='squall_leonhart' date='Jul 15 2007, 03:07 AM']Disabling the driver helper service disables the profiles, which means that certain games which have fixes (Halo, MOHAA, Quake3) won't work properly.

tried updating the drivers on the firewire device?
[right][snapback]222823[/snapback][/right]
[/quote]


Thanks for that - I am on latest drivers and firmware. :-)
[quote name='squall_leonhart' date='Jul 15 2007, 03:07 AM']Disabling the driver helper service disables the profiles, which means that certain games which have fixes (Halo, MOHAA, Quake3) won't work properly.



tried updating the drivers on the firewire device?

[snapback]222823[/snapback]








Thanks for that - I am on latest drivers and firmware. :-)

#6
Posted 07/15/2007 07:24 AM   
[quote name='seemebreakthis' date='Jul 15 2007, 04:53 AM']Strange you are asking this question.  I did some research (and actually considered buying the fireface 800) before I purchased the 828.  I thought you probably have done something similar.

The 828 is an audio interface device much like your fireface 400.  It has 22ins and 20 out (or something like that) indlucing ADAT IO, S/PDIF and optical, 2 mic/guitar preamps, and 8 analog IOs. 

I installed Vista 32-bit rather than 64-bit however.  Wonder if this will make any difference.
[right][snapback]222844[/snapback][/right]
[/quote]

I needed a device that had fully supported 64 bit drivers that was the whole point of my post. And one that works in Vista 64. My 32 bit install works perfectly down to 1ms latency as does 64 if I use th fix mentioned above. Until then I was perfectly happy with the Layla 3G.

Vista 64 is the only way I can take advantage of my 8 GB of memory. (Plus some other advantages of course).

I did do a lot of research but to be honest I always avoid MOTU gear. In the past I found the MIDI timing to be hopeless, I'm sure it has improved by now though but I still wouldn't use a MOTU device, it's just one of those things.

Thanks again,

:-)
[quote name='seemebreakthis' date='Jul 15 2007, 04:53 AM']Strange you are asking this question.  I did some research (and actually considered buying the fireface 800) before I purchased the 828.  I thought you probably have done something similar.



The 828 is an audio interface device much like your fireface 400.  It has 22ins and 20 out (or something like that) indlucing ADAT IO, S/PDIF and optical, 2 mic/guitar preamps, and 8 analog IOs. 



I installed Vista 32-bit rather than 64-bit however.  Wonder if this will make any difference.

[snapback]222844[/snapback]






I needed a device that had fully supported 64 bit drivers that was the whole point of my post. And one that works in Vista 64. My 32 bit install works perfectly down to 1ms latency as does 64 if I use th fix mentioned above. Until then I was perfectly happy with the Layla 3G.



Vista 64 is the only way I can take advantage of my 8 GB of memory. (Plus some other advantages of course).



I did do a lot of research but to be honest I always avoid MOTU gear. In the past I found the MIDI timing to be hopeless, I'm sure it has improved by now though but I still wouldn't use a MOTU device, it's just one of those things.



Thanks again,



:-)

#7
Posted 07/15/2007 07:32 AM   
[quote name='Phil Pendlebury' date='Jul 15 2007, 02:32 AM']I needed a device that had fully supported 64 bit drivers that was the whole point of my post. And one that works in Vista 64. My 32 bit install works perfectly down to 1ms latency as does 64 if I use th fix mentioned above. Until then I was perfectly happy with the Layla 3G.

Vista 64 is the only way I can take advantage of my 8 GB of memory. (Plus some other advantages of course).

I did do a lot of research but to be honest I always avoid MOTU gear. In the past I found the MIDI timing to be hopeless, I'm sure it has improved by now though but I still wouldn't use a MOTU device, it's just one of those things.

Thanks again,

:-)
[right][snapback]222859[/snapback][/right]
[/quote]

Yeah I wish I could afford all that. I have a M-Audio Firewire 410 and an Alesis Micron.

Still need to pickup an audio-technica at-2020, some krk 6's and a krk-10. Then I want 2 SL1200mk2 turntables real bad, and a nice djm-600 or 800 mixer heh.
[quote name='Phil Pendlebury' date='Jul 15 2007, 02:32 AM']I needed a device that had fully supported 64 bit drivers that was the whole point of my post. And one that works in Vista 64. My 32 bit install works perfectly down to 1ms latency as does 64 if I use th fix mentioned above. Until then I was perfectly happy with the Layla 3G.



Vista 64 is the only way I can take advantage of my 8 GB of memory. (Plus some other advantages of course).



I did do a lot of research but to be honest I always avoid MOTU gear. In the past I found the MIDI timing to be hopeless, I'm sure it has improved by now though but I still wouldn't use a MOTU device, it's just one of those things.



Thanks again,



:-)

[snapback]222859[/snapback]






Yeah I wish I could afford all that. I have a M-Audio Firewire 410 and an Alesis Micron.



Still need to pickup an audio-technica at-2020, some krk 6's and a krk-10. Then I want 2 SL1200mk2 turntables real bad, and a nice djm-600 or 800 mixer heh.

#8
Posted 07/15/2007 04:13 PM   
Well, it has been over 6 months now. Anything new?

I have a firewire problem with NVIDIA SLI Mobo and 8800GT and Vista 64 Ultimate. Wanted to know if NVIDIA ever came back with an answerer.

My Cakewalk SPS-66 works fine in Vista 32 but not in Vista 64

The driver installs with no errors. Every thing is happy in Device Manager. All the audio ports for the SPS-66 show up in Windows Sound panel. But audio is not delivered to the SPS-66 through the fire wire.

After many experiments I found that the system will function perfectly until restart or turn off and on of SPS-66 - only after returning from sleep mode. But it doesn't always work after sleep mode.

The SPS-66 has worked on other mother boards in 64 bit mode with out a problem. What is blocking the audio through firewire?

I'll see if your start up options trick has any effect.

EVGA 680i, 8800 GT, Vista 64 Ultimate, 4G, SATA RAID 0 2stripe, and stand alone.
SPS-66 firewire audio.
Well, it has been over 6 months now. Anything new?



I have a firewire problem with NVIDIA SLI Mobo and 8800GT and Vista 64 Ultimate. Wanted to know if NVIDIA ever came back with an answerer.



My Cakewalk SPS-66 works fine in Vista 32 but not in Vista 64



The driver installs with no errors. Every thing is happy in Device Manager. All the audio ports for the SPS-66 show up in Windows Sound panel. But audio is not delivered to the SPS-66 through the fire wire.



After many experiments I found that the system will function perfectly until restart or turn off and on of SPS-66 - only after returning from sleep mode. But it doesn't always work after sleep mode.



The SPS-66 has worked on other mother boards in 64 bit mode with out a problem. What is blocking the audio through firewire?



I'll see if your start up options trick has any effect.



EVGA 680i, 8800 GT, Vista 64 Ultimate, 4G, SATA RAID 0 2stripe, and stand alone.

SPS-66 firewire audio.

#9
Posted 01/29/2008 11:31 PM   
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