Thief2 & 8800_GTS/GTX bad rendering/dithering
  1 / 22    
[b]UPDATE[/b]

With each new graphics driver release from nVidia and Ati, more and more old games are breaking. The dark engine games (i.e. Thief 1, Thief 2
and System Shock 2) have long been a victim; Thief 2 first lost its stars, had issues with fogging and then lost all colour detail in shadows. On
contemporary (DX10) hardware from both nVida and Ati, it appears to be rendered in 8 bit colour due to removed dithering support. And since
the 169.xx(nVidia) & 7.5(Ati) driver revisions Thief(1,2)/Ss(1,2) have become completely unplayable. nVidia or Ati are utterly uninterested in
spending manpower on fixing older games, so it's seems its fallen to the fans(I am of course refering to one phenomal fan in particular, the dude
behind Oblivion mod manager, [b]Timeslip[/b]) to get thief looking like its old self again (Fog & Stars are back).

Behold [url="http://timeslip.chorrol.com/ddfix.html"][b]DDfix[/b][/url]

The current list of fixes include:[list]
[*]Worked around broken dithering by forcing rendering to a 32 bit render target
[*]Fixed the issue with missing star textures
[*]Removed the resolution switching between the game and menus
[*]Fixed the texture corruption and crashes caused by nvidia forceware drivers newer than 169.xx
[*]Fixed the issue with multi core processors
[*]Fixed the issue with the video codec becoming unregistered
[*] Adds options to use a higher bit depth z-buffer or to disable the windows key
[/list]This patch is mainly designed to support Thief 2, and when used with the standard v1.18 exe some additional features are available.[list]
[*]Fixes any issues with the driver incorrectly reporting free vram
[*]Adds a 32 bit texture loader, to allow the use of 32 bit textures instead of the usual 8 bit paletted images
[*]Adds the option to use fullscreen resolutions that are normally unsupported by Thief, such as 1280x960 and 1440x1050
[/list]Requires windows 2000 or above and a graphics card that supports 32 bit render targets. The GUI requires .NET 2.0 or a recent version of
mono. Using the patch without the GUI requires the use of a hex editor, or using a prepatched exe. Copy protected versions of the games
cannot be patched automatically and will require downloading a prepatched exe, PM either Bikerdude or NamlessVoice @ ttlg to get a prepatched exe.

Here are some small pictures for comparison

TNT-64_AGP_56.73 driver*****************8800GTX_PCIE_163.75 driver*****************8800GTX_PCIE_163.75_DDFIX'd
[img]http://img84.imageshack.us/img84/8795/tnt264agp5673vgasmallhz3.jpg[/img][img]http://img147.imageshack.us/img147/8610/8800gtxpcie16375vgasmalrd9.jpg[/img][img]http://img84.imageshack.us/img84/9444/8800gtxpcie16375ddfixvgqs1.jpg[/img]

[b]
ORIGINAL THREAD:[/b]
I have done a lot of testing with both the 8800GTS and the 8800GTX and the problem as far as I can see it is the 8800 card, changing driver version's make's no difference. As we all know for a while now 8bit sky rendering in T2 has been par for the course. But now with the upgrade to the 8800 series card, the 8bit rendering problem has grown to include everything else (all shadowed textures etc)
On a 8800 Thief 2 now looks like Thief 1, ie. low bit depth on all textures in shadow. [b]This is the same for both WinXp and WinVista.[/b]

# Thief 1 plays and looks as it should due to its older engine not using any dithering
# Thief 2 looks bad, as the 8800 is corrupting the dithering/rendering, so there are no details in the shadows.

Biker
UPDATE



With each new graphics driver release from nVidia and Ati, more and more old games are breaking. The dark engine games (i.e. Thief 1, Thief 2

and System Shock 2) have long been a victim; Thief 2 first lost its stars, had issues with fogging and then lost all colour detail in shadows. On

contemporary (DX10) hardware from both nVida and Ati, it appears to be rendered in 8 bit colour due to removed dithering support. And since

the 169.xx(nVidia) & 7.5(Ati) driver revisions Thief(1,2)/Ss(1,2) have become completely unplayable. nVidia or Ati are utterly uninterested in

spending manpower on fixing older games, so it's seems its fallen to the fans(I am of course refering to one phenomal fan in particular, the dude

behind Oblivion mod manager, Timeslip) to get thief looking like its old self again (Fog & Stars are back).



Behold DDfix



The current list of fixes include:

  • Worked around broken dithering by forcing rendering to a 32 bit render target
  • Fixed the issue with missing star textures
  • Removed the resolution switching between the game and menus
  • Fixed the texture corruption and crashes caused by nvidia forceware drivers newer than 169.xx
  • Fixed the issue with multi core processors
  • Fixed the issue with the video codec becoming unregistered
  • Adds options to use a higher bit depth z-buffer or to disable the windows key
This patch is mainly designed to support Thief 2, and when used with the standard v1.18 exe some additional features are available.

  • Fixes any issues with the driver incorrectly reporting free vram
  • Adds a 32 bit texture loader, to allow the use of 32 bit textures instead of the usual 8 bit paletted images
  • Adds the option to use fullscreen resolutions that are normally unsupported by Thief, such as 1280x960 and 1440x1050
Requires windows 2000 or above and a graphics card that supports 32 bit render targets. The GUI requires .NET 2.0 or a recent version of

mono. Using the patch without the GUI requires the use of a hex editor, or using a prepatched exe. Copy protected versions of the games

cannot be patched automatically and will require downloading a prepatched exe, PM either Bikerdude or NamlessVoice @ ttlg to get a prepatched exe.



Here are some small pictures for comparison



TNT-64_AGP_56.73 driver*****************8800GTX_PCIE_163.75 driver*****************8800GTX_PCIE_163.75_DDFIX'd

ImageImageImage





ORIGINAL THREAD:


I have done a lot of testing with both the 8800GTS and the 8800GTX and the problem as far as I can see it is the 8800 card, changing driver version's make's no difference. As we all know for a while now 8bit sky rendering in T2 has been par for the course. But now with the upgrade to the 8800 series card, the 8bit rendering problem has grown to include everything else (all shadowed textures etc)

On a 8800 Thief 2 now looks like Thief 1, ie. low bit depth on all textures in shadow. This is the same for both WinXp and WinVista.



# Thief 1 plays and looks as it should due to its older engine not using any dithering

# Thief 2 looks bad, as the 8800 is corrupting the dithering/rendering, so there are no details in the shadows.



Biker

#1
Posted 05/11/2007 03:46 PM   
@b1k3rdude:

thanks for posting it here as well :)

ps check my last post here:

[url="http://forums.nvidia.com/index.php?showtopic=34711"]http://forums.nvidia.com/index.php?showtopic=34711[/url]

Hope this issue gets fixed finally - looks like Nvidia DX6 driver in recent XP and W9x drivers (starting from 6x.xx/7x.xx ?) has gone really bad, breaking many still popular DX6 games (AvP is another example).

I'm already in the market for ATI card but maybe they fix it before I switch (for good probably - breaking old popular games in new drivers is not excusable for me and well as many others).
@b1k3rdude:



thanks for posting it here as well :)



ps check my last post here:



http://forums.nvidia.com/index.php?showtopic=34711



Hope this issue gets fixed finally - looks like Nvidia DX6 driver in recent XP and W9x drivers (starting from 6x.xx/7x.xx ?) has gone really bad, breaking many still popular DX6 games (AvP is another example).



I'm already in the market for ATI card but maybe they fix it before I switch (for good probably - breaking old popular games in new drivers is not excusable for me and well as many others).

#2
Posted 05/23/2007 04:00 PM   
[quote name='b1k3rdude' date='May 11 2007, 08:46 AM']Afternoon

I have done a lot of testing with both the 8800GTS and the 8800GTX and the problem as far as I can see it is the 8800 card, changing driver version make no difference. As we all know for a while now 8bit sky rendering in T2 has been par for the course. But now with the upgrade to an 8800 series card, the 8bit rendering problem has grown to include everything else (all textures etc) On a 8800 Thief 2 now looks like Thief 1, ie. low bit depth on all textures and shadows. This is the same for both WinXp and WinVista.

# For example remember how much more detail T2 has in shadows compared to T1, now T2 looks as bad as T1 in that regard.
# The quality of the dithering is bad (I assume as the game is now rendering in 8bit rather than 16bit)

The images have the gamma is all the way up @ 100% so you can see the problem..

8800GTX 8bit and then My laptop (intel gfx) 16bit
[img]http://img516.imageshack.us/img516/135/8bitfo2.jpg[/img][img]http://img265.imageshack.us/img265/2728/16bitcp3.jpg[/img]

Ok, I have found a work around....

I got to thinking, windows supports multi gfx cards in one machine and as most monitors these days have dual inputs I thought I should be able to play Thief on the second video card and then just flick the input on the monitor. The configurations as follows:-

[b]8800GTX(PCI-E Slot 1) & PCX5200(PCI Slot 1)[/b] - current config
1. Installed the 158.19 (Z-tweaked) for the 8800GTX & 7900GT
2. Then in display properties change the primary display from the 8800 to the 5200.
3. Fire up thief and eureka lovely textures and even the sky is better than it was on my 7900GT.
4. As the Z-tweaked driver used the old control panel  - you can overclock the 8800 again from the CP, no need for Ati tool or riva tuner.
5. dont forget to change the primary card back to the 8800 when you want to use that one for your newer games.
6. The old control panel limits the amount of AA to x4 you can apply on the 8800, this may be a problem for some.

[b]8800GTX(PCI-E Slot 1) & 7900GT(PCI-E Slot2)[/b]
1. Installed the 158.19 (Z-tweaked) for the 8800GTX
3. Then in display properties change the primary display from the 8800 to the 7900.
4. applied the 'safe texture' fix via user.cfg
5. Fire up thief and eureka lovely textures (still crappy sky though)
6. As the Z-tweaked driver used the old control panel, both cards can be configured and you can overclock the 8800 and the 7900 from the CP.
7. The old control panel limits the amount of AA to x4 you can apply on the 8800, this may be a problem for some.
8. dont forget to change the primary card back to the 8800 when you want to use that one for your newer games.

[b]8800GTX(PCI-E Slot1) & X800XL(PCI-E Slot2)[/b]
# Wont work, Ati driver wont install when the ati card is in the second slot (this maybe card/model issue)

[b]8800GTX(PCI-E Slot1) & PCX5900(PCI-E Slot2) - WIP[/b]
# The FX5900 was the last good nVidia based card for Thief - perfect tectures etc. When I manage to get my hands on one I will test this configuration.

[b]8800GTX(PCI-E Slot1) & 7300(PCI-E Slot0) - WIP[/b]
# This only just dawned on me, as most of us have one or two (x1 speed) pci-e slots on our mobo that arent being used -this could be perfect for this application, Whatch this Space....!!!

Biker
[right][snapback]195834[/snapback][/right]
[/quote]
That's weird because Thief 2 works fine on my computer and I have the NVidia 8800 GTX. Splinter Cell: Double Agent doesn't but that is because it says it wont work right on the box. Who reads the fine print closely. If a person sees NVidia on the recommendations listing then you figure it will work. Every game I have bought includes all the NVidia cards....................Untill 8800GTX.
[quote name='b1k3rdude' date='May 11 2007, 08:46 AM']Afternoon



I have done a lot of testing with both the 8800GTS and the 8800GTX and the problem as far as I can see it is the 8800 card, changing driver version make no difference. As we all know for a while now 8bit sky rendering in T2 has been par for the course. But now with the upgrade to an 8800 series card, the 8bit rendering problem has grown to include everything else (all textures etc) On a 8800 Thief 2 now looks like Thief 1, ie. low bit depth on all textures and shadows. This is the same for both WinXp and WinVista.



# For example remember how much more detail T2 has in shadows compared to T1, now T2 looks as bad as T1 in that regard.

# The quality of the dithering is bad (I assume as the game is now rendering in 8bit rather than 16bit)



The images have the gamma is all the way up @ 100% so you can see the problem..



8800GTX 8bit and then My laptop (intel gfx) 16bit

ImageImage



Ok, I have found a work around....



I got to thinking, windows supports multi gfx cards in one machine and as most monitors these days have dual inputs I thought I should be able to play Thief on the second video card and then just flick the input on the monitor. The configurations as follows:-



8800GTX(PCI-E Slot 1) & PCX5200(PCI Slot 1) - current config

1. Installed the 158.19 (Z-tweaked) for the 8800GTX & 7900GT

2. Then in display properties change the primary display from the 8800 to the 5200.

3. Fire up thief and eureka lovely textures and even the sky is better than it was on my 7900GT.

4. As the Z-tweaked driver used the old control panel  - you can overclock the 8800 again from the CP, no need for Ati tool or riva tuner.

5. dont forget to change the primary card back to the 8800 when you want to use that one for your newer games.

6. The old control panel limits the amount of AA to x4 you can apply on the 8800, this may be a problem for some.



8800GTX(PCI-E Slot 1) & 7900GT(PCI-E Slot2)

1. Installed the 158.19 (Z-tweaked) for the 8800GTX

3. Then in display properties change the primary display from the 8800 to the 7900.

4. applied the 'safe texture' fix via user.cfg

5. Fire up thief and eureka lovely textures (still crappy sky though)

6. As the Z-tweaked driver used the old control panel, both cards can be configured and you can overclock the 8800 and the 7900 from the CP.

7. The old control panel limits the amount of AA to x4 you can apply on the 8800, this may be a problem for some.

8. dont forget to change the primary card back to the 8800 when you want to use that one for your newer games.



8800GTX(PCI-E Slot1) & X800XL(PCI-E Slot2)

# Wont work, Ati driver wont install when the ati card is in the second slot (this maybe card/model issue)



8800GTX(PCI-E Slot1) & PCX5900(PCI-E Slot2) - WIP

# The FX5900 was the last good nVidia based card for Thief - perfect tectures etc. When I manage to get my hands on one I will test this configuration.



8800GTX(PCI-E Slot1) & 7300(PCI-E Slot0) - WIP

# This only just dawned on me, as most of us have one or two (x1 speed) pci-e slots on our mobo that arent being used -this could be perfect for this application, Whatch this Space....!!!



Biker

[snapback]195834[/snapback]




That's weird because Thief 2 works fine on my computer and I have the NVidia 8800 GTX. Splinter Cell: Double Agent doesn't but that is because it says it wont work right on the box. Who reads the fine print closely. If a person sees NVidia on the recommendations listing then you figure it will work. Every game I have bought includes all the NVidia cards....................Untill 8800GTX.

#3
Posted 05/29/2007 04:42 AM   
Were any patches needed to run Thief 2 ok?
Were any patches needed to run Thief 2 ok?

#4
Posted 05/29/2007 08:35 PM   
[quote name='Malphal' date='May 29 2007, 05:42 AM']That's weird because Thief 2 works fine on my computer and I have the NVidia 8800 GTX.
[/quote]

can you post screen shots please..? as every other person who has tried to run Thief2 or SystemShock2 has the same crappy rendering/dithering.

biker
[quote name='Malphal' date='May 29 2007, 05:42 AM']That's weird because Thief 2 works fine on my computer and I have the NVidia 8800 GTX.





can you post screen shots please..? as every other person who has tried to run Thief2 or SystemShock2 has the same crappy rendering/dithering.



biker

#5
Posted 09/09/2007 07:47 AM   
I too have experienced crappy dithering with dark engine games on my Leadtek 8800GTS. Both Thief 2 and System Shock 2 present the same problem. :( This issue was not present on my late FX5900XT.

These are some of the best games in gaming history, and i was expecting nvidia to try to ensure their preservation. :angry: And i really don't think buying a second PCI card is a valid solution to this problem. When i get a high end video card i expect it to handle everything i throw at it, especially since previous nvidia cards didn't have this issue.

@Malphal - could you please post a screenshot of Thief 2 on your computer? So far, everyone i know with a 8800GTX has the crappy dithering issue...
I too have experienced crappy dithering with dark engine games on my Leadtek 8800GTS. Both Thief 2 and System Shock 2 present the same problem. :( This issue was not present on my late FX5900XT.



These are some of the best games in gaming history, and i was expecting nvidia to try to ensure their preservation. :angry: And i really don't think buying a second PCI card is a valid solution to this problem. When i get a high end video card i expect it to handle everything i throw at it, especially since previous nvidia cards didn't have this issue.



@Malphal - could you please post a screenshot of Thief 2 on your computer? So far, everyone i know with a 8800GTX has the crappy dithering issue...

#6
Posted 09/09/2007 12:17 PM   
The problem is actually much more extensive than simply bad rendering / dithering on the 8800 series. There is a long history of Nvidia driver bugs that prevent good rendering of Thief with Nvidia cards more recent than the 5xxx series. These have culminated in the worst performance ever in the 8800 cards, but older Nvidia cards still have problems, as described below.

Nvidia created a bug in their drivers when rendering Thief 2 somewhere after the 56.xx driver series several years ago. This resulted in reduced bit-depth color rendering for all dark colors (Thief is supposed to be dark) and a patchy, ridiculous looking sky. This is known among Thief players as the bad sky problem. After some recent experimentation in the Thief community, it has been determined that all this is caused by failure to dither, which gives a very limited palette for dark colors. There is also an issue with transparency not working.

At the same time, and this is probably related, Nvidia drivers started causing a texture memory error and crashing Thief 2. This could be fixed only by using a "safe_texture_manager" parameter in a configuration file or using a modified executable that accomplished the same thing. Having to do this may have disabled the correct dithering behavior, but the underlying problem is an error caused by a change to the Nvidia drivers which made this fix necessary to play at all.

Also in the list of Nvidia-caused problems, Thief 1 stopped working completely and crashed to desktop when using the 7xxx series cards for all Nvidia drivers greater than 8xxx. The only way to fix this is to revert to the older drivers. This means that 7000 series Nvidia cards will not play Thief 1 unless you can find a modified 8000 series driver that recognizes the newer card. Nvidia does not support this.

I have personally solved the Thief 1 problem part-way by buying two 7950 GT's (no longer being actively marketed), one for use now and one for a spare, and finding some Russian modified 84.56 driver that recognize the 7950 GT. Because the rendering problems with the 8800 series are even worse, I am locked in now to never being able to upgrade my video card or its drivers, or having to use two computers if I want to play Thief 1. Moreover, I still have the bad sky problem.

The last Nvidia cards to run Thief properly without the bad sky problems are the Ti 4xxx series and the 5xxx FX cards. These are becoming very hard to get. Even if I find one, I don't want to revert to an older card. I want the newer cards to work! :(

I started another thread here on this subject that unfortunately did not receive many replies. [url="http://forums.nvidia.com/index.php?showtopic=34965"]Click here[/url].

There is a large international community of Thief players at the TTLG forums and complaints there about Nvidia are legion. Here is a [url="http://www.ttlg.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=153"]technical support forum[/url] that contains some of the complaints. There are others sprinkled around. Do a broader search for Nvidia to find them.

Thief is one of the all time great classic games. We are unhappy with Nvidia's apparent ignoring of the Thief community and their failure to make their drivers backward compatible. What can be done to increase Nvidia's awareness? Do we need to get all Thief players with Nvidia cards to come here and complain? I would prefer that Nvidia take a more proactive stance. Does anyone know who to contact to make that happen?

EDIT:

[url="http://www.ttlg.com/forums/showthread.php?t=113157"]Here is a link[/url] to a thread that I started at TTLG on this subject. Below are some images that I posted in this thread of what the dark color problem looks like with my 6800 GT and my 7950 GT.

[img]http://home.comcast.net/~smithpd1/thief/bed_dark_texture.jpg[/img]
dark texture with 6800 GT or 7950 GT. Note banding.

[img]http://home.comcast.net/~smithpd1/thief/bed_light_texture.jpg[/img]
light texture with 6800 GT or 7950 GT. Banding is gone.

Here is another example showing a window shutter (behind glass) in the same room: dark and with torch.

[img]http://home.comcast.net/~smithpd1/thief/window_dark_texture.jpg[/img]
dark texture with 6800 GT or 7950 GT. Note banding.

[img]http://home.comcast.net/~smithpd1/thief/window_light_texture.jpg[/img]
light texture with 6800 GT or 7950 GT. Banding is gone.

The light textures are fine with all video cards I have tried. The dark textures shown above look blotchy on the 6800 GT and the 7950 GT.

EDIT AGAIN

Below are contrast-enhanced images of the dark bedspread and the dark window taken with a Ti 4200. The banding is removed. The use of dithering is now evident. The lack of dithering is what caused the banding. Without contrast enhancement, the images look natural and good, as opposed to the bad looking images with the 6800 GT and the 7950 GT.

[img]http://home.comcast.net/~smithpd1/thief/dark_bedspread_4200.jpg[/img]
dark bedspread, Ti 4200, contrast enhanced

[img]http://home.comcast.net/~smithpd1/thief/dark_shutter_4200.jpg[/img]
dark window, Ti 4200, contrast enhanced
The problem is actually much more extensive than simply bad rendering / dithering on the 8800 series. There is a long history of Nvidia driver bugs that prevent good rendering of Thief with Nvidia cards more recent than the 5xxx series. These have culminated in the worst performance ever in the 8800 cards, but older Nvidia cards still have problems, as described below.



Nvidia created a bug in their drivers when rendering Thief 2 somewhere after the 56.xx driver series several years ago. This resulted in reduced bit-depth color rendering for all dark colors (Thief is supposed to be dark) and a patchy, ridiculous looking sky. This is known among Thief players as the bad sky problem. After some recent experimentation in the Thief community, it has been determined that all this is caused by failure to dither, which gives a very limited palette for dark colors. There is also an issue with transparency not working.



At the same time, and this is probably related, Nvidia drivers started causing a texture memory error and crashing Thief 2. This could be fixed only by using a "safe_texture_manager" parameter in a configuration file or using a modified executable that accomplished the same thing. Having to do this may have disabled the correct dithering behavior, but the underlying problem is an error caused by a change to the Nvidia drivers which made this fix necessary to play at all.



Also in the list of Nvidia-caused problems, Thief 1 stopped working completely and crashed to desktop when using the 7xxx series cards for all Nvidia drivers greater than 8xxx. The only way to fix this is to revert to the older drivers. This means that 7000 series Nvidia cards will not play Thief 1 unless you can find a modified 8000 series driver that recognizes the newer card. Nvidia does not support this.



I have personally solved the Thief 1 problem part-way by buying two 7950 GT's (no longer being actively marketed), one for use now and one for a spare, and finding some Russian modified 84.56 driver that recognize the 7950 GT. Because the rendering problems with the 8800 series are even worse, I am locked in now to never being able to upgrade my video card or its drivers, or having to use two computers if I want to play Thief 1. Moreover, I still have the bad sky problem.



The last Nvidia cards to run Thief properly without the bad sky problems are the Ti 4xxx series and the 5xxx FX cards. These are becoming very hard to get. Even if I find one, I don't want to revert to an older card. I want the newer cards to work! :(



I started another thread here on this subject that unfortunately did not receive many replies. Click here.



There is a large international community of Thief players at the TTLG forums and complaints there about Nvidia are legion. Here is a technical support forum that contains some of the complaints. There are others sprinkled around. Do a broader search for Nvidia to find them.



Thief is one of the all time great classic games. We are unhappy with Nvidia's apparent ignoring of the Thief community and their failure to make their drivers backward compatible. What can be done to increase Nvidia's awareness? Do we need to get all Thief players with Nvidia cards to come here and complain? I would prefer that Nvidia take a more proactive stance. Does anyone know who to contact to make that happen?



EDIT:



Here is a link to a thread that I started at TTLG on this subject. Below are some images that I posted in this thread of what the dark color problem looks like with my 6800 GT and my 7950 GT.



Image

dark texture with 6800 GT or 7950 GT. Note banding.



Image

light texture with 6800 GT or 7950 GT. Banding is gone.



Here is another example showing a window shutter (behind glass) in the same room: dark and with torch.



Image

dark texture with 6800 GT or 7950 GT. Note banding.



Image

light texture with 6800 GT or 7950 GT. Banding is gone.



The light textures are fine with all video cards I have tried. The dark textures shown above look blotchy on the 6800 GT and the 7950 GT.



EDIT AGAIN



Below are contrast-enhanced images of the dark bedspread and the dark window taken with a Ti 4200. The banding is removed. The use of dithering is now evident. The lack of dithering is what caused the banding. Without contrast enhancement, the images look natural and good, as opposed to the bad looking images with the 6800 GT and the 7950 GT.



Image

dark bedspread, Ti 4200, contrast enhanced



Image

dark window, Ti 4200, contrast enhanced

#7
Posted 09/09/2007 06:20 PM   
[quote name='smithpd' date='Sep 9 2007, 06:20 PM']Also in the list of Nvidia-caused problems, Thief 1 stopped working completely and crashed to desktop when using the 7xxx series cards for all Nvidia drivers greater than 8xxx.  The only way to fix this is to revert to the older drivers.  This means that 7000 series Nvidia cards will not play Thief 1 unless you can find a modified 8000 series driver that recognizes the newer card.  Nvidia does not support this.
[/quote]

I have the same problem as bIk3rdude in his screen shot. All the same textures and colours
With Thief2. The game plays for only a few minutes then sticks and gives up
Just brought a new system with Vista.
VIDEO CARD DUAL 256MB nVida 860GTS.

Is there another driver I maybe use do you mean? That would recognise the card.
The whole system is new. Without changing it. It should work.
I am very unhappy I can not play Thief with this card
I too have posted at TTGL a member there. Many unhappy as well.
[quote name='smithpd' date='Sep 9 2007, 06:20 PM']Also in the list of Nvidia-caused problems, Thief 1 stopped working completely and crashed to desktop when using the 7xxx series cards for all Nvidia drivers greater than 8xxx.  The only way to fix this is to revert to the older drivers.  This means that 7000 series Nvidia cards will not play Thief 1 unless you can find a modified 8000 series driver that recognizes the newer card.  Nvidia does not support this.





I have the same problem as bIk3rdude in his screen shot. All the same textures and colours

With Thief2. The game plays for only a few minutes then sticks and gives up

Just brought a new system with Vista.

VIDEO CARD DUAL 256MB nVida 860GTS.



Is there another driver I maybe use do you mean? That would recognise the card.

The whole system is new. Without changing it. It should work.

I am very unhappy I can not play Thief with this card

I too have posted at TTGL a member there. Many unhappy as well.

#8
Posted 09/10/2007 03:14 AM   
With 7600GT setting AA to 8xS makes Thief2 have the same poor rendering as 8800:

_____AA=8xS_______________AA=4x
[url="http://img252.imageshack.us/my.php?image=dump001iu7.png"][img]http://img252.imageshack.us/img252/9030/dump001iu7.th.png[/img][/url] [url="http://img209.imageshack.us/my.php?image=dump002xb7.png"][img]http://img209.imageshack.us/img209/8286/dump002xb7.th.png[/img][/url]

But for 8800 looks like something is hardcoded in drivers that can't be tweaked by user.

Too sad that I can't upgrade my video to 8x series — Thief and its Fan Missions are very important for me.
With 7600GT setting AA to 8xS makes Thief2 have the same poor rendering as 8800:



_____AA=8xS_______________AA=4x

Image Image



But for 8800 looks like something is hardcoded in drivers that can't be tweaked by user.



Too sad that I can't upgrade my video to 8x series — Thief and its Fan Missions are very important for me.

#9
Posted 09/11/2007 06:49 AM   
its not the drivers, its that the game doesn't know what the video card is therefore disabling the effects.

you might have better luck using DxTweaker and creating an Ident override with it set to the ident for a Geforce 5 or 6
its not the drivers, its that the game doesn't know what the video card is therefore disabling the effects.



you might have better luck using DxTweaker and creating an Ident override with it set to the ident for a Geforce 5 or 6

#10
Posted 09/12/2007 05:34 AM   
[quote]its not the drivers[/quote]
Yes it is because it started happening after a driver update on cards that previously worked.

Also AFAIK it doesn't happen on ATi cards.

It's yet another example of nVidia's lackluster attitude towards supporting legacy titles.
its not the drivers


Yes it is because it started happening after a driver update on cards that previously worked.



Also AFAIK it doesn't happen on ATi cards.



It's yet another example of nVidia's lackluster attitude towards supporting legacy titles.

#11
Posted 09/12/2007 12:07 PM   
what render does theif use? Opengl or Direct3D

every detail matters,

if its Direct3D, its probably due to moving away and dropping support for legacy fixed function features, instead moving them onto shaders or emulating them on shaders

if its opengl.. then they could be dropped anytime the Opengl spec changes.

edit
it might be how the driver reports itself to the game... maybe its reading it wrong... needless to say, dithering on homeworld (original) works in both opengl and Direct3D. thats not to say there isn't a problem with dithering in theif.. just saying it works.
what render does theif use? Opengl or Direct3D



every detail matters,



if its Direct3D, its probably due to moving away and dropping support for legacy fixed function features, instead moving them onto shaders or emulating them on shaders



if its opengl.. then they could be dropped anytime the Opengl spec changes.



edit

it might be how the driver reports itself to the game... maybe its reading it wrong... needless to say, dithering on homeworld (original) works in both opengl and Direct3D. thats not to say there isn't a problem with dithering in theif.. just saying it works.

#12
Posted 09/12/2007 01:34 PM   
I also have a Geforce 8800 GTS and also have the same aweful dithering problems which basically just completely puts you off playing the game. Simply because it looks absolutely crap. I can not understand why Nvidia does not support classic games like Thief 2. It's one of the best games to ever grace the PC and it's such a damn shame that people with geforce 8800 graphics cards can't play it the way it was meant to be.

Come on Nvidia please fix the problem. /whistling.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':whistling:' />

Played other old games such as Nomad Soul which also only has 16bit colour support and it looks and plays ok. So why not Thief 2. /no.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':no:' />
I also have a Geforce 8800 GTS and also have the same aweful dithering problems which basically just completely puts you off playing the game. Simply because it looks absolutely crap. I can not understand why Nvidia does not support classic games like Thief 2. It's one of the best games to ever grace the PC and it's such a damn shame that people with geforce 8800 graphics cards can't play it the way it was meant to be.



Come on Nvidia please fix the problem. /whistling.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':whistling:' />



Played other old games such as Nomad Soul which also only has 16bit colour support and it looks and plays ok. So why not Thief 2. /no.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':no:' />

#13
Posted 09/12/2007 03:49 PM   
Same thing here. I have 8800 GTS. Christ, I thought nVidia card were good for compatibility.
Same thing here. I have 8800 GTS. Christ, I thought nVidia card were good for compatibility.

#14
Posted 09/13/2007 03:00 AM   
[quote name='squall_leonhart' date='Sep 12 2007, 07:34 AM']what render does theif use? Opengl or Direct3D[/quote]
Direct3D
[quote name='squall_leonhart' date='Sep 12 2007, 07:34 AM']what render does theif use? Opengl or Direct3D

Direct3D

#15
Posted 09/13/2007 03:20 AM   
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