Shield TV Gen 2, Kodi, 4K & upscaling - updated info plz
  1 / 3    
Hi guys, would appreciate if someone can give me an updated summary on where we are with latest KODI version, Nvidia Shield TV Gen2 and the "4K issues": In 4 days from now I am getting a Samsung 9-series (QE65Q9f) delivered, I have the latest Nvidia Shield TV Gen 2 and I have a central KODI setup with MySQL database and would like to stick to KODI. Due to lack of true 4K content I recon I (right now) will mostly be watching 1080p then some true 4K here and there. So my question: I'm finding a lot of different info on 4K upscaling and various issues and I'm not sure what is up to date info. From what I understand my brand new Samsung will most likely be doing a better job on 1080p > 4K upscaling than Nvidia Shield TV/KODI so on 1080p I should be passing 1080p to the TV and let the Samsung TV deal with upscaling. 1) Is this still accurate or has there been improvements when it comes to [u]automatically[/u] sending 1080p content as 1080p & 4K as 4K to the TV? 2) What are the recommended KODI and Nvidia Shield TV/Android settings to get best picture quality possible on both 1080p & 4K? 3) I would rather switch manually to 4K (when watching true 4K content) if that ensures I get a better picture, but if so - which settings needs to be manually switched? Nvidia Shield/Android, KODI or both? 4) If I do manually switch settings to 4K when needed, are there still color issues as mentioned in some threads? All feedback appreciated!
Hi guys, would appreciate if someone can give me an updated summary on where we are with latest KODI version, Nvidia Shield TV Gen2 and the "4K issues":
In 4 days from now I am getting a Samsung 9-series (QE65Q9f) delivered, I have the latest Nvidia Shield TV Gen 2 and I have a central KODI setup with MySQL database and would like to stick to KODI. Due to lack of true 4K content I recon I (right now) will mostly be watching 1080p then some true 4K here and there.

So my question: I'm finding a lot of different info on 4K upscaling and various issues and I'm not sure what is up to date info. From what I understand my brand new Samsung will most likely be doing a better job on 1080p > 4K upscaling than Nvidia Shield TV/KODI so on 1080p I should be passing 1080p to the TV and let the Samsung TV deal with upscaling.

1) Is this still accurate or has there been improvements when it comes to automatically sending 1080p content as 1080p & 4K as 4K to the TV?
2) What are the recommended KODI and Nvidia Shield TV/Android settings to get best picture quality possible on both 1080p & 4K?
3) I would rather switch manually to 4K (when watching true 4K content) if that ensures I get a better picture, but if so - which settings needs to be manually switched? Nvidia Shield/Android, KODI or both?
4) If I do manually switch settings to 4K when needed, are there still color issues as mentioned in some threads?

All feedback appreciated!

#1
Posted 02/03/2018 01:11 PM   
It's easy: since Kodi 17.x (not sure whici version) you can have your TV do the upscaling: - Set your Shield to 4K @ 59.94 Hz - Set Kodi to 1920x1080p @ 59.94 Hz - In Kodi enable Adjust display refresh rate and disable Sync playback to display Kodi will then output 1080p material as 1080p with the correct refresh rate and it will switch to 4K output when playing 4K content. Unfortunately, color space switching doesn't work yet, so if you want to watch 4K HDR content you will still need to manually change your Shield output settings.
It's easy: since Kodi 17.x (not sure whici version) you can have your TV do the upscaling:

- Set your Shield to 4K @ 59.94 Hz
- Set Kodi to 1920x1080p @ 59.94 Hz
- In Kodi enable Adjust display refresh rate and disable Sync playback to display

Kodi will then output 1080p material as 1080p with the correct refresh rate and it will switch to 4K output when playing 4K content.

Unfortunately, color space switching doesn't work yet, so if you want to watch 4K HDR content you will still need to manually change your Shield output settings.

#2
Posted 02/03/2018 01:23 PM   
Hi and thanks for quick reply! Running Kodi 17.6. This sounds great and I am fine with manually having to switch some setting when I watch 4K. But hence color space switching, which specific setting do I need to change in Shield output settings when watching 4K HDR content ? Thanks.
Hi and thanks for quick reply! Running Kodi 17.6.

This sounds great and I am fine with manually having to switch some setting when I watch 4K. But hence color space switching, which specific setting do I need to change in Shield output settings when watching 4K HDR content ? Thanks.

#3
Posted 02/03/2018 01:28 PM   
Ok did a bit more reading and seems the Samsung Q9F has 10-bit color depth (some info [url=https://www.rtings.com/tv/tools/compare/sony-z9d-vs-samsung-q9f/425/442]here[/url]. So I recon I should go with the settings you suggested above, then on Shield output settings I default run with YCbCr 4:2:0 10-bit Rec. 709 (for regular 1080p content) & manually switch to YCbCr 4:2:0 10-bit Rec. 2020 (for 4K HDR content). Agree?
Ok did a bit more reading and seems the Samsung Q9F has 10-bit color depth (some info here. So I recon I should go with the settings you suggested above, then on Shield output settings I default run with YCbCr 4:2:0 10-bit Rec. 709 (for regular 1080p content) & manually switch to YCbCr 4:2:0 10-bit Rec. 2020 (for 4K HDR content).

Agree?

#4
Posted 02/03/2018 04:24 PM   
I find SPMC better on the shield, it has better scaling options for media under 1080p: https://github.com/koying/SPMC/wiki/Recommended-video-settings-for-SPMC,-NVIDIA-Shield-TV-and-UHD-(4K)-TVs-with-4K-GUI If you make the switch to SPMC fork then definately add the advancedsettings.xml, as this improves scaling greatly, and do the GUI setting MrMagicNL recommended above - but note the comment about disabling Mediacodec (surface) and this in turn disables HDR content. Not certain but I believe kodi is basically the same, minus the better lanczos scalers, so either way I would set up two Profiles - one with mediacodec (surface) disabled and GUI set to 1080p for standard media and one with it mediacodec (surface) enabled, and GUI set to 4k, for HDR media. I would also try and leave the shield set to 4k 12-bit BT2020 see how your TV handles colourspace, it may be ok and its a hassle going into settings plus sometimes i found it needed a reboot and disconnection of HDMI cable to force a handshake between my shield and samsung TV when changing colourspace. Otherwise you may as well forget auto resolution, if your going into HDMI settings virtually every time for 4k, plus switching to get 4k / HDR in apps like YouTube, amazon etc gets to be a pain.
I find SPMC better on the shield, it has better scaling options for media under 1080p:

https://github.com/koying/SPMC/wiki/Recommended-video-settings-for-SPMC,-NVIDIA-Shield-TV-and-UHD-(4K)-TVs-with-4K-GUI

If you make the switch to SPMC fork then definately add the advancedsettings.xml, as this improves scaling greatly, and do the GUI setting MrMagicNL recommended above - but note the comment about disabling Mediacodec (surface) and this in turn disables HDR content.

Not certain but I believe kodi is basically the same, minus the better lanczos scalers, so either way I would set up two Profiles - one with mediacodec (surface) disabled and GUI set to 1080p for standard media and one with it mediacodec (surface) enabled, and GUI set to 4k, for HDR media.

I would also try and leave the shield set to 4k 12-bit BT2020 see how your TV handles colourspace, it may be ok and its a hassle going into settings plus sometimes i found it needed a reboot and disconnection of HDMI cable to force a handshake between my shield and samsung TV when changing colourspace.

Otherwise you may as well forget auto resolution, if your going into HDMI settings virtually every time for 4k, plus switching to get 4k / HDR in apps like YouTube, amazon etc gets to be a pain.

#5
Posted 02/03/2018 04:43 PM   
[quote="ptbNO"]Ok did a bit more reading and seems the Samsung Q9F has 10-bit color depth (some info [url=https://www.rtings.com/tv/tools/compare/sony-z9d-vs-samsung-q9f/425/442]here[/url]. So I recon I should go with the settings you suggested above, then on Shield output settings I default run with YCbCr 4:2:0 10-bit Rec. 709 (for regular 1080p content) & manually switch to YCbCr 4:2:0 10-bit Rec. 2020 (for 4K HDR content). Agree? [/quote] That is correct.
ptbNO said:Ok did a bit more reading and seems the Samsung Q9F has 10-bit color depth (some info here. So I recon I should go with the settings you suggested above, then on Shield output settings I default run with YCbCr 4:2:0 10-bit Rec. 709 (for regular 1080p content) & manually switch to YCbCr 4:2:0 10-bit Rec. 2020 (for 4K HDR content).

Agree?


That is correct.

#6
Posted 02/03/2018 06:01 PM   
[quote="ptbNO"]Ok did a bit more reading and seems the Samsung Q9F has 10-bit color depth (some info [url=https://www.rtings.com/tv/tools/compare/sony-z9d-vs-samsung-q9f/425/442]here[/url]. So I recon I should go with the settings you suggested above, then on Shield output settings I default run with YCbCr 4:2:0 10-bit Rec. 709 (for regular 1080p content) & manually switch to YCbCr 4:2:0 10-bit Rec. 2020 (for 4K HDR content). Agree? [/quote] 4:2:0 10 Bit Rec. 709 is not a valid HDMI mode for 1080p. If you want to set a 1080p resolution then you would have to go with 4:2:2 12 Bit Rec. 709. You should also be aware that setting your SHIELD to 4:2:0 10 Bit Rec. 2020 @4K means that you will end up with judder since this mode doesn't support 24Hz. The only 4K mode supporting 24Hz is 4:2:2 12 Bit. However, it currently (as of GeForce Experience v6.2.) doesn't matter which mode you choose, you will always end up with color problems as described [url="https://forums.geforce.com/default/topic/895245/shield-tv/picture-quality-and-color-space-evaluation/"]here[/url]. Here's the post with the latest info about the color problems from nVidia: [url]https://forums.geforce.com/default/topic/895245/shield-tv/picture-quality-and-color-space-evaluation/post/5223697/#5223697[/url] It is very unlikely these problems will get fixed before an Oreo based GeForce Experience version is released. And it remains uncertain if it will get fixed in its entirety at all if you read the statement tegradave has made.
ptbNO said:Ok did a bit more reading and seems the Samsung Q9F has 10-bit color depth (some info here. So I recon I should go with the settings you suggested above, then on Shield output settings I default run with YCbCr 4:2:0 10-bit Rec. 709 (for regular 1080p content) & manually switch to YCbCr 4:2:0 10-bit Rec. 2020 (for 4K HDR content).

Agree?

4:2:0 10 Bit Rec. 709 is not a valid HDMI mode for 1080p. If you want to set a 1080p resolution then you would have to go with 4:2:2 12 Bit Rec. 709.
You should also be aware that setting your SHIELD to 4:2:0 10 Bit Rec. 2020 @4K means that you will end up with judder since this mode doesn't support 24Hz. The only 4K mode supporting 24Hz is 4:2:2 12 Bit.

However, it currently (as of GeForce Experience v6.2.) doesn't matter which mode you choose, you will always end up with color problems as described here.

Here's the post with the latest info about the color problems from nVidia:
https://forums.geforce.com/default/topic/895245/shield-tv/picture-quality-and-color-space-evaluation/post/5223697/#5223697

It is very unlikely these problems will get fixed before an Oreo based GeForce Experience version is released. And it remains uncertain if it will get fixed in its entirety at all if you read the statement tegradave has made.

#7
Posted 02/03/2018 09:41 PM   
Agree with JaneDoe42, i personally couldn’t live with the colourspace issue and now have mine set to 12-bit REC709 and forget HDR for now on the shield, I play direct on the TV. Again you may have better mileage with 12-bit BT2020 on the newer (and better) Samsung so i would still try that first and see how it looks you never know your luck it may handle it better and it would save you a lot of hassle. Rest of what i said in the earlier post stands especially SPMC scaling being superior.
Agree with JaneDoe42, i personally couldn’t live with the colourspace issue and now have mine set to 12-bit REC709 and forget HDR for now on the shield, I play direct on the TV.

Again you may have better mileage with 12-bit BT2020 on the newer (and better) Samsung so i would still try that first and see how it looks you never know your luck it may handle it better and it would save you a lot of hassle.

Rest of what i said in the earlier post stands especially SPMC scaling being superior.

#8
Posted 02/04/2018 06:27 AM   
[quote="Jonrstorey"]I find SPMC better on the shield, it has better scaling options for media under 1080p: https://github.com/koying/SPMC/wiki/Recommended-video-settings-for-SPMC,-NVIDIA-Shield-TV-and-UHD-(4K)-TVs-with-4K-GUI If you make the switch to SPMC fork then definately add the advancedsettings.xml, as this improves scaling greatly, and do the GUI setting MrMagicNL recommended above - but note the comment about disabling Mediacodec (surface) and this in turn disables HDR content. Not certain but I believe kodi is basically the same, minus the better lanczos scalers, so either way I would set up two Profiles - one with mediacodec (surface) disabled and GUI set to 1080p for standard media and one with it mediacodec (surface) enabled, and GUI set to 4k, for HDR media.[/quote] Hi and thanks for your reply. From what I understand SPMC is based on an older KODI release. I have a server with close to 70TB with multimedia and a MySQL setup with lots of plugins, so unless it's really called for I'd like to stick with KODI. Will be quite a job to make a switch. Re two profiles: If the output settings switch needs to be done in Android I don't think it will help me much having two different profiles (KODI or SPMC). Plus KODI seems to be able to do the auto refresh so my/our main issue is the Nvidia Shield. [quote="Jonrstorey"]I would also try and leave the shield set to 4k 12-bit BT2020 see how your TV handles colourspace, it may be ok and its a hassle going into settings plus sometimes i found it needed a reboot and disconnection of HDMI cable to force a handshake between my shield and samsung TV when changing colourspace. Otherwise you may as well forget auto resolution, if your going into HDMI settings virtually every time for 4k, plus switching to get 4k / HDR in apps like YouTube, amazon etc gets to be a pain.[/quote] I agree, the manual switch is most certainly no ideal solution. But if I leave Shield on a 4K profile then Shield will do the upscaling. Which I'd like to avoid since a farily new & expensive TV like the Q9F most likely will do a better job on upscaling
Jonrstorey said:I find SPMC better on the shield, it has better scaling options for media under 1080p:


https://github.com/koying/SPMC/wiki/Recommended-video-settings-for-SPMC,-NVIDIA-Shield-TV-and-UHD-(4K)-TVs-with-4K-GUI


If you make the switch to SPMC fork then definately add the advancedsettings.xml, as this improves scaling greatly, and do the GUI setting MrMagicNL recommended above - but note the comment about disabling Mediacodec (surface) and this in turn disables HDR content.

Not certain but I believe kodi is basically the same, minus the better lanczos scalers, so either way I would set up two Profiles - one with mediacodec (surface) disabled and GUI set to 1080p for standard media and one with it mediacodec (surface) enabled, and GUI set to 4k, for HDR media.

Hi and thanks for your reply. From what I understand SPMC is based on an older KODI release. I have a server with close to 70TB with multimedia and a MySQL setup with lots of plugins, so unless it's really called for I'd like to stick with KODI. Will be quite a job to make a switch.

Re two profiles: If the output settings switch needs to be done in Android I don't think it will help me much having two different profiles (KODI or SPMC). Plus KODI seems to be able to do the auto refresh so my/our main issue is the Nvidia Shield.

Jonrstorey said:I would also try and leave the shield set to 4k 12-bit BT2020 see how your TV handles colourspace, it may be ok and its a hassle going into settings plus sometimes i found it needed a reboot and disconnection of HDMI cable to force a handshake between my shield and samsung TV when changing colourspace.

Otherwise you may as well forget auto resolution, if your going into HDMI settings virtually every time for 4k, plus switching to get 4k / HDR in apps like YouTube, amazon etc gets to be a pain.

I agree, the manual switch is most certainly no ideal solution. But if I leave Shield on a 4K profile then Shield will do the upscaling. Which I'd like to avoid since a farily new & expensive TV like the Q9F most likely will do a better job on upscaling

#9
Posted 02/04/2018 10:02 AM   
Re 12-bit: OK, I will give it a go instead of 10-bit when I receive the TV on Wednesday. Thanks for all the input guys, much appreciated and very interesting. Plus a bit disappointing (hence comment from tegradave). Up until discovering the issues mentioned here I considered the Nvidia Shield TV to be more or less an ideal flawless solution.
Re 12-bit: OK, I will give it a go instead of 10-bit when I receive the TV on Wednesday. Thanks for all the input guys, much appreciated and very interesting. Plus a bit disappointing (hence comment from tegradave). Up until discovering the issues mentioned here I considered the Nvidia Shield TV to be more or less an ideal flawless solution.

#10
Posted 02/04/2018 10:09 AM   
The two profiles thing is to get around changing settings within kodi as the mediacodec (surface) setting conflicts so you cant have both auto resolution and HDR - its one or the other.
The two profiles thing is to get around changing settings within kodi as the mediacodec (surface) setting conflicts so you cant have both auto resolution and HDR - its one or the other.

#11
Posted 02/04/2018 08:43 PM   
[quote="Jonrstorey"]Agree with JaneDoe42, i personally couldn’t live with the colourspace issue and now have mine set to 12-bit REC709 and forget HDR for now on the shield, I play direct on the TV. Again you may have better mileage with 12-bit BT2020 on the newer (and better) Samsung so i would still try that first and see how it looks you never know your luck it may handle it better and it would save you a lot of hassle. Rest of what i said in the earlier post stands especially SPMC scaling being superior. [/quote] There is a bug with the Shield when set to 12-bit Rec.2020, as it's really outputting 8-bit. Not sure if this happens with 12-bit Rec.709.
Jonrstorey said:Agree with JaneDoe42, i personally couldn’t live with the colourspace issue and now have mine set to 12-bit REC709 and forget HDR for now on the shield, I play direct on the TV.

Again you may have better mileage with 12-bit BT2020 on the newer (and better) Samsung so i would still try that first and see how it looks you never know your luck it may handle it better and it would save you a lot of hassle.

Rest of what i said in the earlier post stands especially SPMC scaling being superior.



There is a bug with the Shield when set to 12-bit Rec.2020, as it's really outputting 8-bit. Not sure if this happens with 12-bit Rec.709.

#12
Posted 02/04/2018 10:37 PM   
I have a Sony XE93, what the correct settings and which Kodi is now better, SPMC or Kodi v18?
I have a Sony XE93, what the correct settings and which Kodi is now better, SPMC or Kodi v18?

#13
Posted 02/05/2018 08:50 AM   
[quote="TAZ291819"] There is a bug with the Shield when set to 12-bit Rec.2020, as it's really outputting 8-bit. Not sure if this happens with 12-bit Rec.709. [/quote] If this is based on what your AVR or projector displays, then it is a bug on those devices. These devices simply check for the CD (color depth) bits in the General Control Subpacket of HDMI signal. By spec. YCbCr 4:2:2 is in 36 (12-bit) mode and doesn't require the use of CD bits. This is the reason why see 8/24-bits on your AVR or projector. What I can't say for sure is whether Shield's output is upscaled 12-bit or zero-padded 12-bit output. There are ways to test this out, I just haven't had time to do it.
TAZ291819 said:
There is a bug with the Shield when set to 12-bit Rec.2020, as it's really outputting 8-bit. Not sure if this happens with 12-bit Rec.709.

If this is based on what your AVR or projector displays, then it is a bug on those devices. These devices simply check for the CD (color depth) bits in the General Control Subpacket of HDMI signal. By spec. YCbCr 4:2:2 is in 36 (12-bit) mode and doesn't require the use of CD bits. This is the reason why see 8/24-bits on your AVR or projector.

What I can't say for sure is whether Shield's output is upscaled 12-bit or zero-padded 12-bit output. There are ways to test this out, I just haven't had time to do it.

#14
Posted 02/05/2018 03:52 PM   
I use the following to auto change my colorspace from BT2020 for UHD content and to REC.709 for HD content I have Vizio P series and Nvidia Shield TV and an AVR(only HDMI 1.4b) This is how I solved this issue: Added HDFury Vertex between the Shield TV and both Vizio P series and my AVR Set Shield to 59Mhz BT2020 420 10bit Set SPMC resolution 1920x1080 (1080p) Set SPMC Scalers to HD and UP Enable SPMC surface codec (enabled HDR) Set Vertex change color space 1080/30 to Rec 709 444 10bit Set Vertex change color space 1080/60 to Rec 709 444 10bit Set Vertex to 4k60Mhz BT2020 422 12bit Set Vertex to 4k30Mhz BT2020 422 12bit This allows me to play Netflix/SPMC UHD on shield BTR2020 and allows me to play HD BluRay 1080p content in REC. 709 and allows me to Play HDBluRay 4k HDR content BT2020 without have to manually adjust settings.
I use the following to auto change my colorspace from BT2020 for UHD content and to REC.709 for HD content

I have Vizio P series and Nvidia Shield TV and an AVR(only HDMI 1.4b)
This is how I solved this issue:
Added HDFury Vertex between the Shield TV and both Vizio P series and my AVR
Set Shield to 59Mhz BT2020 420 10bit
Set SPMC resolution 1920x1080 (1080p)
Set SPMC Scalers to HD and UP
Enable SPMC surface codec (enabled HDR)
Set Vertex change color space 1080/30 to Rec 709 444 10bit
Set Vertex change color space 1080/60 to Rec 709 444 10bit
Set Vertex to 4k60Mhz BT2020 422 12bit
Set Vertex to 4k30Mhz BT2020 422 12bit
This allows me to play Netflix/SPMC UHD on shield BTR2020 and allows me to play HD BluRay 1080p content in REC. 709 and allows me to Play HDBluRay 4k HDR content BT2020 without have to manually adjust settings.

#15
Posted 02/05/2018 06:13 PM   
  1 / 3    
Scroll To Top