Need advice on buying a 1080 vs 1080Ti based on the rest of my specs...
  1 / 2    
Fellow 3D Vision users, the day has finally (well hopefully) come where I can purchase a new GPU. Been needing one for a while now, as my 690GTX has held me back from being able to play newer AAA titles. I won't be upgrading anything else currently. My hand-built PC has performed admirably for several years now, and I haven't felt the need, nor do I have the budget, to upgrade anything else about it. So my question and reason for posting this is: Based on my existing setup, is the $200 price premium for the 1080Ti worth it? Or would I see just as much bang-for-buck sticking with a regular 1080?
Fellow 3D Vision users, the day has finally (well hopefully) come where I can purchase a new GPU. Been needing one for a while now, as my 690GTX has held me back from being able to play newer AAA titles.

I won't be upgrading anything else currently. My hand-built PC has performed admirably for several years now, and I haven't felt the need, nor do I have the budget, to upgrade anything else about it.

So my question and reason for posting this is: Based on my existing setup, is the $200 price premium for the 1080Ti worth it? Or would I see just as much bang-for-buck sticking with a regular 1080?

|CPU: i7-2700k @ 4.5Ghz
|Cooler: Zalman 9900 Max
|MB: MSI Military Class II Z68 GD-80
|RAM: Corsair Vengence 16GB DDR3
|SSDs: Seagate 600 240GB; Crucial M4 128GB
|HDDs: Seagate Barracuda 1TB; Seagate Barracuda 500GB
|PS: OCZ ZX Series 1250watt
|Case: Antec 1200 V3
|Monitors: Asus 3D VG278HE; Asus 3D VG236H; Samsung 3D 51" Plasma;
|GPU:EVGA 690GTX
|OS: Windows 10 Pro X64

#1
Posted 11/03/2017 12:32 PM   
[img]http://s2.quickmeme.com/img/91/919689a4a12461046d04404575107bd3121e3ec78ea731ba2ed73467eab8ca96.jpg[/img] Wait if you can. Volta may come in Q1 2018, and the 1080 is now a year and a half old.
Image

Wait if you can. Volta may come in Q1 2018, and the 1080 is now a year and a half old.

Email for PayPal donations: masterotakusuko@gmail.com
CPU: Intel Core i7 7700K @ 4.9GHz
Motherboard: Gigabyte Aorus GA-Z270X-Gaming 5
RAM: GSKILL Ripjaws Z 16GB 3866MHz CL18
GPU: Gainward Phoenix 1080 GLH
Monitor: Asus PG278QR
Speakers: Logitech Z506

#2
Posted 11/03/2017 01:56 PM   
Depends if you want to play at high/ultra or are happy with a mix of medium/high... I would go for a 1070ti over a 1080 at the moment (unless 1080 prices have dropped since I last checked). Masterotaku is right though, if you can wait a few months you'll probably get much better value for money. I picked up my 980ti when the 10 series was launched at half the price it was a few months before.
Depends if you want to play at high/ultra or are happy with a mix of medium/high... I would go for a 1070ti over a 1080 at the moment (unless 1080 prices have dropped since I last checked).

Masterotaku is right though, if you can wait a few months you'll probably get much better value for money. I picked up my 980ti when the 10 series was launched at half the price it was a few months before.

OS & Driver: Win 7 w/372.90, Win 10 w/376.33
CPU & GPU: i7 4790k, Gigabyte 980Ti G1 Gaming
MB & RAM: Asrock Z97 Extreme4, GSkill Trident 16Gb DDR3 2400Mhz
Audio: Realtek HD, Steinberg UR44
Display: Acer XB271HUA w/3D Vision 2 Kit

#3
Posted 11/03/2017 03:08 PM   
I've always preferred to have the best quality graphics experience that can be had - hence the past purchase of a 690GTX for $1000.00. Unfortunately I no longer have disposable income to bite off quite that much. Based on a cursory search of Newegg, a regular 1080 can be had around $550. A 1070Ti around $450. A 1080Ti around $750.00. I'm not too concerned with waiting for the Voltas since they will be priced out of my range at launch. And if I'm going to go with the older 10x series, then really it's not worth waiting that much longer - I've already waited, as masterotaku said, over a year. My question was really more about whether or not I would be able to see the difference in full potential between one or the other, taking my aging hardware into consideration. As an example, if I replaced my CPU and continued to use the same MB, I would obviously be limiting the full capability of the CPU. Would I potentially be running into the same issue with the current gen GPUs? If, for example, a 1080Ti could be bottlenecked by some other component, then perhaps it wouldn't be worth the extra money, and my aging system would get just as much performance from a lower tiered card? As a secondary question: Where does the 1070Ti fall in GPU hierarchy? Is it faster than a stock 1080? Tom's Hardware hasn't updated their chart yet to include the Ti's.
I've always preferred to have the best quality graphics experience that can be had - hence the past purchase of a 690GTX for $1000.00. Unfortunately I no longer have disposable income to bite off quite that much.
Based on a cursory search of Newegg, a regular 1080 can be had around $550. A 1070Ti around $450. A 1080Ti around $750.00.

I'm not too concerned with waiting for the Voltas since they will be priced out of my range at launch. And if I'm going to go with the older 10x series, then really it's not worth waiting that much longer - I've already waited, as masterotaku said, over a year.

My question was really more about whether or not I would be able to see the difference in full potential between one or the other, taking my aging hardware into consideration. As an example, if I replaced my CPU and continued to use the same MB, I would obviously be limiting the full capability of the CPU. Would I potentially be running into the same issue with the current gen GPUs?

If, for example, a 1080Ti could be bottlenecked by some other component, then perhaps it wouldn't be worth the extra money, and my aging system would get just as much performance from a lower tiered card?

As a secondary question: Where does the 1070Ti fall in GPU hierarchy? Is it faster than a stock 1080? Tom's Hardware hasn't updated their chart yet to include the Ti's.

|CPU: i7-2700k @ 4.5Ghz
|Cooler: Zalman 9900 Max
|MB: MSI Military Class II Z68 GD-80
|RAM: Corsair Vengence 16GB DDR3
|SSDs: Seagate 600 240GB; Crucial M4 128GB
|HDDs: Seagate Barracuda 1TB; Seagate Barracuda 500GB
|PS: OCZ ZX Series 1250watt
|Case: Antec 1200 V3
|Monitors: Asus 3D VG278HE; Asus 3D VG236H; Samsung 3D 51" Plasma;
|GPU:EVGA 690GTX
|OS: Windows 10 Pro X64

#4
Posted 11/03/2017 04:43 PM   
There is no chance that the 1080ti would be worth it, for 3D. As a general rule we are CPU bound with 3D, and 1080ti would be shooting for scenarios where you are GPU bound. With your older CPU there, that is definitely going to be the bottleneck, and the 1080ti would be a waste of money. But, this really also depends upon your desired resolution. If you routinely play at 1080p, then even the 1080 is getting into questionable value, because the 1070 would be perfectly good and still limited by the CPU. This will be highly dependent upon the resolution and games that you plan to play. If you are planning to play at 1440p, or 4K TV, I'd go with the 1080. If not, I'd go with the 1070ti, maybe even 1070 (but probably prices are wrecked by miners.) Benchmarks comparison in [i]2D[/i], 1080 vs. 1070ti. [url]https://www.anandtech.com/bench/product/2042?vs=1940[/url] Hard to justify the price difference, but if it were me, I'd probably still go with the 1080, under the assumption that I'd still use it after a CPU/MB upgrade.
There is no chance that the 1080ti would be worth it, for 3D.

As a general rule we are CPU bound with 3D, and 1080ti would be shooting for scenarios where you are GPU bound. With your older CPU there, that is definitely going to be the bottleneck, and the 1080ti would be a waste of money.


But, this really also depends upon your desired resolution. If you routinely play at 1080p, then even the 1080 is getting into questionable value, because the 1070 would be perfectly good and still limited by the CPU.

This will be highly dependent upon the resolution and games that you plan to play. If you are planning to play at 1440p, or 4K TV, I'd go with the 1080. If not, I'd go with the 1070ti, maybe even 1070 (but probably prices are wrecked by miners.)


Benchmarks comparison in 2D, 1080 vs. 1070ti.
https://www.anandtech.com/bench/product/2042?vs=1940

Hard to justify the price difference, but if it were me, I'd probably still go with the 1080, under the assumption that I'd still use it after a CPU/MB upgrade.

Acer H5360 (1280x720@120Hz) - ASUS VG248QE with GSync mod - 3D Vision 1&2 - Driver 372.54
GTX 970 - i5-4670K@4.2GHz - 12GB RAM - Win7x64+evilKB2670838 - 4 Disk X25 RAID
SAGER NP9870-S - GTX 980 - i7-6700K - Win10 Pro 1607
Latest 3Dmigoto Release
Bo3b's School for ShaderHackers

#5
Posted 11/03/2017 09:45 PM   
[quote="bo3b"]If you routinely play at 1080p, then even the 1080 is getting into questionable value, because the 1070 would be perfectly good and still limited by the CPU.[/quote] I was caught between buying a 1070 & 1080 for 1080p 3d gaming. In the end I went with the 1080 because I got an MSI gaming X for $700 AU (under $550 US) and couldn't find a quality 1070 for under $600 AU (around $450 US). The 1080 is possibly overkill - ultra everything and consistent 60 FPS 3d for almost every game. But, the card seldom gets above 60 degrees and feels more future proof than a 1070. Here is the 1080 bottleneck chart [url]https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/17VRKPjyiTBx9Ewc2xkmaMZD2tA3gSOG3rNtH4OEiz3g/edit#gid=0[/url] and here is the 1070 [url]https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1EQOWVLxk0DOFXKfzCmz9lEZ-qpMb7mIvt8KUYek69A8/edit#gid=0[/url] they don't go back as old as your CPU op and are not totally up to date but can still be used as an indication. The 1070 Ti falls smack bang in the middle of the 1070 & 1080 performance but with the slightly lesser requirements of a 1070. My 2 cents - make the decision on price. A 1080 Ti is 20 odd % better than a 1080 and a 1080 is 20 odd % better than a 1070. Use around $500 US as a 1080 base point and go from there. Asus and MSI seem to have a better rep this gen - EVGA had some early problems with cooling but they are all fixed now. Wider custom boards keep cooler than the narrow ones - Strix, gaming x, armor, FTW.
bo3b said:If you routinely play at 1080p, then even the 1080 is getting into questionable value, because the 1070 would be perfectly good and still limited by the CPU.


I was caught between buying a 1070 & 1080 for 1080p 3d gaming. In the end I went with the 1080 because I got an MSI gaming X for $700 AU (under $550 US) and couldn't find a quality 1070 for under $600 AU (around $450 US).

The 1080 is possibly overkill - ultra everything and consistent 60 FPS 3d for almost every game. But, the card seldom gets above 60 degrees and feels more future proof than a 1070.

Here is the 1080 bottleneck chart

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/17VRKPjyiTBx9Ewc2xkmaMZD2tA3gSOG3rNtH4OEiz3g/edit#gid=0

and here is the 1070

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1EQOWVLxk0DOFXKfzCmz9lEZ-qpMb7mIvt8KUYek69A8/edit#gid=0

they don't go back as old as your CPU op and are not totally up to date but can still be used as an indication.

The 1070 Ti falls smack bang in the middle of the 1070 & 1080 performance but with the slightly lesser requirements of a 1070.

My 2 cents - make the decision on price. A 1080 Ti is 20 odd % better than a 1080 and a 1080 is 20 odd % better than a 1070. Use around $500 US as a 1080 base point and go from there.

Asus and MSI seem to have a better rep this gen - EVGA had some early problems with cooling but they are all fixed now. Wider custom boards keep cooler than the narrow ones - Strix, gaming x, armor, FTW.

#6
Posted 11/04/2017 10:25 AM   
Guys, thank you so much for this info - this is the kind of feedback I was hoping for. I could find it all myself no doubt... eventually... but the fact is that I rarely get to game these days and I haven't been able to keep up with computer tech either. I trust you guys on this forum since everything is approached from the angle of being able to play in S3D. I have no plans of upgrading to 4K anytime soon. So between that and my current CPU, I'm thinking I would be happy with any of the 3 cards being discussed. I'm probably leaning towards the 1080, for the same reasons ummester mentioned. I'll be watching Newegg in the next few weeks. Hopefully I can land some sort of deal around Thanksgiving. Thanks again!
Guys, thank you so much for this info - this is the kind of feedback I was hoping for. I could find it all myself no doubt... eventually... but the fact is that I rarely get to game these days and I haven't been able to keep up with computer tech either. I trust you guys on this forum since everything is approached from the angle of being able to play in S3D.

I have no plans of upgrading to 4K anytime soon. So between that and my current CPU, I'm thinking I would be happy with any of the 3 cards being discussed. I'm probably leaning towards the 1080, for the same reasons ummester mentioned.

I'll be watching Newegg in the next few weeks. Hopefully I can land some sort of deal around Thanksgiving.

Thanks again!

|CPU: i7-2700k @ 4.5Ghz
|Cooler: Zalman 9900 Max
|MB: MSI Military Class II Z68 GD-80
|RAM: Corsair Vengence 16GB DDR3
|SSDs: Seagate 600 240GB; Crucial M4 128GB
|HDDs: Seagate Barracuda 1TB; Seagate Barracuda 500GB
|PS: OCZ ZX Series 1250watt
|Case: Antec 1200 V3
|Monitors: Asus 3D VG278HE; Asus 3D VG236H; Samsung 3D 51" Plasma;
|GPU:EVGA 690GTX
|OS: Windows 10 Pro X64

#7
Posted 11/06/2017 01:44 PM   
As someone who upgraded from a 4GB 770GTX to an 8GB 1080GTX I found that the 1080GTX performed up to my expectations with 4K.... not so much with putting out equivalent FPS in lower resolutions. Wasn't bad of course but just it seems apparent that they are built towards throwing around higher resolutions more efficiently and not so much at rendering lower resolutions at higher FPS. Many games seem to really shine at 4K giving like 80-90 FPS in ultra but then when you lower to 1920/1080 to play in 3D sometimes you coudlnt even maintain the steady 120 FPS (Borderlands 2 was big one here, frequently dropping down to 30-40 FPS and lower in 3D)
As someone who upgraded from a 4GB 770GTX to an 8GB 1080GTX I found that the 1080GTX performed up to my expectations with 4K.... not so much with putting out equivalent FPS in lower resolutions. Wasn't bad of course but just it seems apparent that they are built towards throwing around higher resolutions more efficiently and not so much at rendering lower resolutions at higher FPS. Many games seem to really shine at 4K giving like 80-90 FPS in ultra but then when you lower to 1920/1080 to play in 3D sometimes you coudlnt even maintain the steady 120 FPS (Borderlands 2 was big one here, frequently dropping down to 30-40 FPS and lower in 3D)

#8
Posted 11/06/2017 03:23 PM   
[quote="Electryic"]As someone who upgraded from a 4GB 770GTX to an 8GB 1080GTX I found that the 1080GTX performed up to my expectations with 4K.... not so much with putting out equivalent FPS in lower resolutions. Wasn't bad of course but just it seems apparent that they are built towards throwing around higher resolutions more efficiently and not so much at rendering lower resolutions at higher FPS. Many games seem to really shine at 4K giving like 80-90 FPS in ultra but then when you lower to 1920/1080 to play in 3D sometimes you coudlnt even maintain the steady 120 FPS (Borderlands 2 was big one here, frequently dropping down to 30-40 FPS and lower in 3D)[/quote] Woowww really? Boarderlands 2 doesn't keep solid 60fps in 1080p/3D on a GTX 1080 card?
Electryic said:As someone who upgraded from a 4GB 770GTX to an 8GB 1080GTX I found that the 1080GTX performed up to my expectations with 4K.... not so much with putting out equivalent FPS in lower resolutions. Wasn't bad of course but just it seems apparent that they are built towards throwing around higher resolutions more efficiently and not so much at rendering lower resolutions at higher FPS. Many games seem to really shine at 4K giving like 80-90 FPS in ultra but then when you lower to 1920/1080 to play in 3D sometimes you coudlnt even maintain the steady 120 FPS (Borderlands 2 was big one here, frequently dropping down to 30-40 FPS and lower in 3D)


Woowww really? Boarderlands 2 doesn't keep solid 60fps in 1080p/3D on a GTX 1080 card?

EVGA GTX 1070 FTW
Motherboard Biostar T5XE CFX-SLI
Processor i7 860 @ 3.5GHz | Cooler SilverStone AR02
16GB Memory DDR3 1.333MHz | 2x HDs 1TB Windows 7 and Windows 10
TV LG Cinema 3D 49lb6200 | ACER EDID override
Steam: http://steamcommunity.com/id/J0hnnieW4lker
Screenshots: http://phereo.com/583b3a2f8884282d5d000007

#9
Posted 11/06/2017 03:51 PM   
That's a CPU limitation. It's an old/unoptimized game. For example, my GTX 1080 can stand Grim Dawn with mostly max setting (not max MSAA) at 60fps in 3D at 1440p, but once there is some action my CPU can't keep up, especially because I summon lots of pets, and in intense battles the minimum I got was 33fps. These two games are hard on the CPU in 2D too, but it's because they use very few cores.
That's a CPU limitation. It's an old/unoptimized game. For example, my GTX 1080 can stand Grim Dawn with mostly max setting (not max MSAA) at 60fps in 3D at 1440p, but once there is some action my CPU can't keep up, especially because I summon lots of pets, and in intense battles the minimum I got was 33fps. These two games are hard on the CPU in 2D too, but it's because they use very few cores.

Email for PayPal donations: masterotakusuko@gmail.com
CPU: Intel Core i7 7700K @ 4.9GHz
Motherboard: Gigabyte Aorus GA-Z270X-Gaming 5
RAM: GSKILL Ripjaws Z 16GB 3866MHz CL18
GPU: Gainward Phoenix 1080 GLH
Monitor: Asus PG278QR
Speakers: Logitech Z506

#10
Posted 11/06/2017 05:05 PM   
[quote="J0hnnieW4ker"][quote="Electryic"]As someone who upgraded from a 4GB 770GTX to an 8GB 1080GTX I found that the 1080GTX performed up to my expectations with 4K.... not so much with putting out equivalent FPS in lower resolutions. Wasn't bad of course but just it seems apparent that they are built towards throwing around higher resolutions more efficiently and not so much at rendering lower resolutions at higher FPS. Many games seem to really shine at 4K giving like 80-90 FPS in ultra but then when you lower to 1920/1080 to play in 3D sometimes you coudlnt even maintain the steady 120 FPS (Borderlands 2 was big one here, frequently dropping down to 30-40 FPS and lower in 3D)[/quote] Woowww really? Boarderlands 2 doesn't keep solid 60fps in 1080p/3D on a GTX 1080 card?[/quote] Its not that its bad its just definitely not the equivalent of what it can do in larger resolutions. The improvement of the 10 series is definitely geared towards 4K. It still handles lower resolutions fine but if you think you are going to be getting 200-300 FPS etc in 1080p because you got 60-70 FPS in 4K you are going to be disappointed.
J0hnnieW4ker said:
Electryic said:As someone who upgraded from a 4GB 770GTX to an 8GB 1080GTX I found that the 1080GTX performed up to my expectations with 4K.... not so much with putting out equivalent FPS in lower resolutions. Wasn't bad of course but just it seems apparent that they are built towards throwing around higher resolutions more efficiently and not so much at rendering lower resolutions at higher FPS. Many games seem to really shine at 4K giving like 80-90 FPS in ultra but then when you lower to 1920/1080 to play in 3D sometimes you coudlnt even maintain the steady 120 FPS (Borderlands 2 was big one here, frequently dropping down to 30-40 FPS and lower in 3D)


Woowww really? Boarderlands 2 doesn't keep solid 60fps in 1080p/3D on a GTX 1080 card?


Its not that its bad its just definitely not the equivalent of what it can do in larger resolutions. The improvement of the 10 series is definitely geared towards 4K. It still handles lower resolutions fine but if you think you are going to be getting 200-300 FPS etc in 1080p because you got 60-70 FPS in 4K you are going to be disappointed.

#11
Posted 11/08/2017 08:40 PM   
I have tried a "GTX 1080 TI" for a couple of weeks and I have to say that every gpu power is not enough when playing 3D games in high resolutions (and my CPU is far from being the best). I have had gpu bottleneck in modern games playing with 2K resolution (even with the famous cpu bottleneck). So, if a guy have only a 1080p monitor it is always a good idea to use DSR to improve image quality, much better than just 1080+antialiasing. I have returned the 1080 TI not because it is not enough power, but because I can not approve paying so much money for a simple card and have such a heat in my case because of that stove, and also that much noise when gaming. The 1080 TI card should be sold only using water cooling solutions, and of course I resist myself to pay even more crazy money fot a water cooled 1080 TI. Back to my previous GTX 660 TI, and good bye to most 3D gaming for a while..., until a reasonable product.
I have tried a "GTX 1080 TI" for a couple of weeks and I have to say that every gpu power is not enough when playing 3D games in high resolutions (and my CPU is far from being the best). I have had gpu bottleneck in modern games playing with 2K resolution (even with the famous cpu bottleneck). So, if a guy have only a 1080p monitor it is always a good idea to use DSR to improve image quality, much better than just 1080+antialiasing.

I have returned the 1080 TI not because it is not enough power, but because I can not approve paying so much money for a simple card and have such a heat in my case because of that stove, and also that much noise when gaming. The 1080 TI card should be sold only using water cooling solutions, and of course I resist myself to pay even more crazy money fot a water cooled 1080 TI. Back to my previous GTX 660 TI, and good bye to most 3D gaming for a while..., until a reasonable product.

- Windows 7 64bits (SSD OCZ-Vertez2 128Gb)
- "ASUS P6X58D-E" motherboard
- "MSI GTX 1060 TI"
- "Intel Xeon X5670" @4000MHz CPU (20.0[12-25]x200MHz)
- RAM 16 Gb DDR3 1600
- "Dell S2716DG" monitor (2560x1440 @144Hz)
- "Corsair Carbide 600C" case
- Labrador dog (cinnamon edition)

#12
Posted 11/08/2017 09:38 PM   
if you want to really enjoy 3d vision in 4k with 50-60 fps in many games you should buy 2 1080ti and SLI them.. not too realistic for most people financially speaking - unless you are rich or something - but I can testify that with this configuration I'm in heaven. cpu bottleneck or not - I'm on 50-60 fps almost constantly. by the way I'm not rich at all - just a single guy living in a shithole with empty refrigerator and few beers ;)
if you want to really enjoy 3d vision in 4k with 50-60 fps in many games you should buy
2 1080ti and SLI them..
not too realistic for most people financially speaking - unless you are rich or something - but I can testify that with this configuration I'm in heaven. cpu bottleneck or not - I'm on 50-60 fps almost constantly. by the way I'm not rich at all - just a single guy living in a shithole with empty refrigerator and few beers ;)

#13
Posted 11/08/2017 09:59 PM   
[quote="eitan8385"]if you want to really enjoy 3d vision in 4k with 50-60 fps in many games you should buy 2 1080ti and SLI them.. not too realistic for most people financially speaking - unless you are rich or something - but I can testify that with this configuration I'm in heaven. cpu bottleneck or not - I'm on 50-60 fps almost constantly. by the way I'm not rich at all - just a single guy living in a shithole with empty refrigerator and few beers ;)[/quote] I used to be you buddy... that's why I had a $3000 hand-built rig and a $1000 690GTX. But I'm married and broke now.... so I haven't even convinced myself I can afford a single 1080 yet, let alone a Ti, and for sure not two! LOL
eitan8385 said:if you want to really enjoy 3d vision in 4k with 50-60 fps in many games you should buy
2 1080ti and SLI them..
not too realistic for most people financially speaking - unless you are rich or something - but I can testify that with this configuration I'm in heaven. cpu bottleneck or not - I'm on 50-60 fps almost constantly. by the way I'm not rich at all - just a single guy living in a shithole with empty refrigerator and few beers ;)


I used to be you buddy... that's why I had a $3000 hand-built rig and a $1000 690GTX. But I'm married and broke now.... so I haven't even convinced myself I can afford a single 1080 yet, let alone a Ti, and for sure not two! LOL

|CPU: i7-2700k @ 4.5Ghz
|Cooler: Zalman 9900 Max
|MB: MSI Military Class II Z68 GD-80
|RAM: Corsair Vengence 16GB DDR3
|SSDs: Seagate 600 240GB; Crucial M4 128GB
|HDDs: Seagate Barracuda 1TB; Seagate Barracuda 500GB
|PS: OCZ ZX Series 1250watt
|Case: Antec 1200 V3
|Monitors: Asus 3D VG278HE; Asus 3D VG236H; Samsung 3D 51" Plasma;
|GPU:EVGA 690GTX
|OS: Windows 10 Pro X64

#14
Posted 11/08/2017 10:20 PM   
no words can even start to describe how sorry I am for your loss of life brother.. ;)
no words can even start to describe how sorry I am for your loss of life brother.. ;)

#15
Posted 11/08/2017 10:50 PM   
  1 / 2    
Scroll To Top